If cannabis were to become legal

[NeuroTypical]

There are prisons full of good people who were busted with a few pounds of weed.

Whoa - a few POUNDS? What's the street value of something like that? I guess it depends on the blend and purity and whatnot - my quick google gives lots of results between $1,000 and $10,000 per pound.

So, someone caught with a few ounces of weed is a user. Someone caught with a few pounds is a dealer or distributor or maybe some poor fool caught moving the stuff. From what I understand, the poor fools usually get plenty opportunity to make a deal with the courts by rolling their contact. Of course, many of them don't because they're worried about getting killed. Running with that crowd places you near 'good people' who will beat, rob, or kill you and yours if you make trouble for them. Unity and One Love my flabby aunt fanny. You're falling for the marketing effort, fanof31.

So, in prison are the poor fools who wouldn't roll, and the dealers and distributors. The notion of the suffering upright citizen, unjustly downtrodden by bad laws, who only wanted to help folk live life in peace - well, it's a seductive notion, very well spun by an industry so closely linked to child prostitution, kidnappings, beatings, and murders. Yes, people are sons and daughters of God, inheritors of a divine birthright, and our sisters and brothers. So from that standpoint, yeah, they're 'good people'. I have a brother-in-law doing his nickel for aggrivated sexual abuse of an 8 yr old girl. He's 'good people' too.

Here's something we all can pretty easily do - go find the folks in your ward or stake who have been prison missionaries. Go and ask them about their experiences. They can speak to the inherent goodness of the souls in prison, but they'll probably have things to say about fanof31's stylized image too.

LM

[FanOf31]

Whoa - a few POUNDS? What's the street value of something like that? I guess it depends on the blend and purity and whatnot - my quick google gives lots of results between $1,000 and $10,000 per pound.

So, someone caught with a few ounces of weed is a user. Someone caught with a few pounds is a dealer or distributor or maybe some poor fool caught moving the stuff. From what I understand, the poor fools usually get plenty opportunity to make a deal with the courts by rolling their contact. Of course, many of them don't because they're worried about getting killed. Running with that crowd places you near 'good people' who will beat, rob, or kill you and yours if you make trouble for them. Unity and One Love my flabby aunt fanny. You're falling for the marketing effort, fanof31.

So, in prison are the poor fools who wouldn't roll, and the dealers and distributors. The notion of the suffering upright citizen, unjustly downtrodden by bad laws, who only wanted to help folk live life in peace - well, it's a seductive notion, very well spun by an industry so closely linked to child prostitution, kidnappings, beatings, and murders. Yes, people are sons and daughters of God, inheritors of a divine birthright, and our sisters and brothers. So from that standpoint, yeah, they're 'good people'. I have a brother-in-law doing his nickel for aggrivated sexual abuse of an 8 yr old girl. He's 'good people' too.

Here's something we all can pretty easily do - go find the folks in your ward or stake who have been prison missionaries. Go and ask them about their experiences. They can speak to the inherent goodness of the souls in prison, but they'll probably have things to say about fanof31's stylized image too.

LM

If the person was involved in killing or any other crime besides posessing, then of course they deserve to be in jail. I'm talking about people like Willie Nelson who harmed no one. I know what I'm talking about as I knew a lot of people who were the ones with pounds of the stuff. Most of them deal with other things and are shady, so they are not the ones I'm talking about. I'm talking about the others. I'm not putting them into one category and saying they're all innocent. Punish them for the real crimes they committed, not the possession.

[NeuroTypical]

There are prisons full of good people who were busted with a few pounds of weed.

...

I'm talking about people like Willie Nelson who harmed no one.

They caught Willie with just under 4 ounces - not "a few pounds:". Willie plead no contest to misdemeanor charges, paid a $500 fine, and agreed to 30 days probation and had the charges dropped. Tell me about how his story adds weight to your argument about good people in prisons?

Punish them for the real crimes they committed, not the possession.

Um, fanof31? Illegal possession of pounds of MJ IS a real crime.

You're not making any sense.

[FanOf31]

They caught Willie with just under 4 ounces - not "a few pounds:". Willie plead no contest to misdemeanor charges, paid a $500 fine, and agreed to 30 days probation and had the charges dropped. Tell me about how his story adds weight to your argument about good people in prisons?

Um, fanof31? Illegal possession of pounds of MJ IS a real crime.

You're not making any sense.

It's a law that's broken and draining the tax money that could be used in so many other ways. Our economy could have much gain if we'd decriminilize it.

[RipplecutBuddha]

And offered as a prescription drug, would the church be against it if you had a health reason to use it? The only reason I ask is because I know of it's values and it's negative effects. The fact the church allows us to use prescription pills which are 1000 times worse for us (our liver specifically) brought this question to mind. The answer "no because thc alters your mind when you are under it's influence" doesn't hold true since prescription pills do the same thing.

There's a problem with the argument though. If MMJ were legalized for all the above-board reasons, then the only people who could get it would be those with an immediate medical need for its use.

Meaning that all the recreational users would still be out in the cold legally....thus illegal MJ sales would continue. The crime associated with illegal MJ use would still continue.

The LDS church has no problems with any legal medicine, so long as it is prescribed, and monitored by a medical professional for dosage and results of use.

The LDS church has a serious problem with recreational use of ANY drug; legal, illegal, otc, or prescription. Regular recreational use of any drug (including alcohol) has a negative effect on the human body in the long term including MJ. I have known my share of pot-smokers in my life, and the effects are rather obvious.

Even if it were legalized, I doubt the LDS Church would support the recreational use of MJ, since they don't support the recreational use of tobacco or alcohol as it stands now.

[bcguy]

If you lived here in BC, I would laugh so hard! because it would not make a difference here. Every fricken one out of ten people I walk across uses the stuff. Its everywhere in the public!!!

[Guest mysticmorini]

what if cannibis were to be legal? God help us thats what.

[Ketch]

what if cannibis were to be legal? God help us thats what.

I think it's pretty ignorant to ignore the many positive uses of cannabis though. For some people it is the ONLY thing that helps with certain symptoms and I know of more than a few Bishops who have given the okay to members that have asked if it would effect their worthiness to go to the temple, exercise their priesthood duties and hold callings.

It's almost laughable that it is still illegal when it has so many medical benefits.

[Bini]

I see nothing wrong with using MJ if your physician has prescribed it to you and after you've considered all your options (as you would prior to taking any medication).

[Bini]

Oh.. sidenote.

On a recent trip to the UK, we stumbled upon a "hippie boutique" for lack of a better word, that sold pot right over the counter. It was quite an interesting store. They even had free samples of various foods (including brownies) that had MJ in them. Hubby and I got a chuckle out of this, as you'd never see anything like this in the US, at least not in Utah for sure!

[NeuroTypical]

I would urge the last three posters to read through this thread. There's something to impact all of y'all's opinions.

[Guest Sachi001]

D&C 89: 10, 11

10And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.

[Dravin]

D&C 89: 10, 11

10And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.

One key word of course is wholesome and another is prudence, the opinions of how they apply to marijuana is gonna be diverse enough that just quoting D&C 89 isn't exactly settling anything*.

*Speaking of the thread or general opinion, how to interpret it may settle it for you of course.

[Ketch]

I would urge the last three posters to read through this thread. There's something to impact all of y'all's opinions.

That's why I posted, read thread and thought I'd discuss. Great point though and great thread on a great forum!

[RipplecutBuddha]

There's a problem with the argument though. If MMJ were legalized for all the above-board reasons, then the only people who could get it would be those with an immediate medical need for its use.

Meaning that all the recreational users would still be out in the cold legally....thus illegal MJ sales would continue. The crime associated with illegal MJ use would still continue.

The LDS church has no problems with any legal medicine, so long as it is prescribed, and monitored by a medical professional for dosage and results of use.

The LDS church has a serious problem with recreational use of ANY drug; legal, illegal, otc, or prescription. Regular recreational use of any drug (including alcohol) has a negative effect on the human body in the long term including MJ. I have known my share of pot-smokers in my life, and the effects are rather obvious.

Even if it were legalized, I doubt the LDS Church would support the recreational use of MJ, since they don't support the recreational use of tobacco or alcohol as it stands now.

just a re-post of my earlier comments. The benefits of MJ can be found in several other activities/herbs/medicines. As such, the recreational use of it is unjustified IMO when weighed against the long-term impact of regular use.

In the areas where it is clearly demonstrated to be an effective medicine for specific treatments, I'm all for it so long as the use is monitored as would any other doctor-prescribed medication.

[Ketch]

What is the impact of long-term regular use thought? Marijuana has NEVER killed anyone EVER. We're not protecting people from themselves, we're not saving the children- it's just a horribly illogical law that is in place because of corruption and propaganda. The fact that it's against the law is just a disgusting reminder of how retarded our system is, not a reasonable reaction to a proven threat to society.

In this day and age with the incredible access to information that we have available there's no way that we should be allowing human beings to tell other human beings that they can't do something that they enjoy that hurts no one including themselves.

[Vort]

Good to see such an open mind on the subject.

[RipplecutBuddha]

When I meet someone who has used MJ regularly for years....I know it immediately. Everything about them is....how should I put this....very relaxed. It's as if they just...can't...fully...wake...up. One such person I know is so far along, his reflexes are noticeably delayed.

There are worse consequences to drug use than death, nor have I ever implied that MJ kills people who use it.

Having said that, if you want to use it, by all means carry on. If we're going somewhere though, please let me drive.

[NeuroTypical]

Marijuana has NEVER killed anyone EVER.

Perhaps, but the industry that produces and distributes MJ are peopled with kidnappers, rapists, child slavers, human traffickers, and murders.

We're not protecting people from themselves, we're not saving the children- it's just a horribly illogical law that is in place because of corruption and propaganda.

Yes, it's horribly illogical to try to stop millions of American dollars from flowing into various transnational criminal organizations. Because hey, just because they conduct bloody mass murders and sell children into prostitution, doesn't mean that the weed you buy from them will hurt you.

The fact that it's against the law is just a disgusting reminder of how retarded our system is, not a reasonable reaction to a proven threat to society.

Again, I'd ask you to read prior posts on this thread - especially the ones where people are talking about the states where it is legal, and how that's working out for everyone. "incredible access to information that we have available" and all that.

[Ketch]

Perhaps, but the industry that produces and distributes MJ are peopled with kidnappers, rapists, child slavers, human traffickers, and murders.

Yes, it's horribly illogical to try to stop millions of American dollars from flowing into various transnational criminal organizations. Because hey, just because they conduct bloody mass murders and sell children into prostitution, doesn't mean that the weed you buy from them will hurt you.

Again, I'd ask you to read prior posts on this thread - especially the ones where people are talking about the states where it is legal, and how that's working out for everyone. "incredible access to information that we have available" and all that.

Everything you said isn't there because of marijuana. Those negative things are because of prohibition.

We can go into a Wal-Mart and buy an asprin for a headache (which kills about 7500 people per year by the way) but something natural that You can grow in Your backyard that does the same thing is illegal.

I'm not sure what You think I missed in the past posts of this thread... I read the whole thing, I'm just trying to continue the discussion of this thread because I think it is an interesting topic.

We saw the rise of the Mafia with alcohol prohibition and we continue to see HUGE amounts of violence because of Marijuana prohibition.

[NeuroTypical]

Everything you said isn't there because of marijuana. Those negative things are because of prohibition.

Again, there's no prohibition here in smoky Colorado - and yet groups continue to battle for territory and there are plenty of armed robberies and burglaries, and the occasional homicide, to keep life interesting.

And again, for like the sixth time in this thread, purchasing something from a murdering child sex ring operator, still is supporting that murdering child sex ring operator. Even if the thing you are purchasing is considered harmless. Yes, there are plenty of local growers - but very few who aren't one or two places removed from that scene.

I hear folks like you come here with your bold claims of "just legalize it and everything will be all better". I'm living in Colorado, and it's not happening. Things are not all better, Ketch. The negative things going on here, are going on despite the fact that there is effectively no prohibition. Do you care to try to explain why?

We saw the rise of the Mafia with alcohol prohibition and we continue to see HUGE amounts of violence because of Marijuana prohibition.

It's been a few years, so someone will have to refresh my memory here: Didn't one of the Godfather movies have the family go totally legit? (I think they moved into casinos, after getting them legalized.) If I remember correctly, there was still plenty of murder and mayhem going on.

[rubondfan2]

Again, here in CO where it is legal to cultivate, grow, harvest, sell, buy, and smoke MMJ, there is still an underground criminal element. There is still battling over territory. There are still armed robberies and aggrivated assaults committed in and around legal dispensaries. Places continue to be broken into. People continue to get robbed. Even though there's a legal avenue available, there is still illegal trafficking in the stuff. The legalized MMJ industry in this state is still closely related to kidnappings, child prostitution, murders, and transational criminal organizations.

It's been a few years since I watched the Godfather movies, but didn't the family go totally legit in one of them? And yet they still had enough violence and mayhem to fill a movie?

I dunno - maybe it does take a rocket scientist to grasp these facts.

LM, perhaps I am still pretty ignorant on this whole issue, but you probably know the answer to a question I have. Aren't Colorado growers, dispensaries and consumers of medical marijuana still at risk of violating the Federal laws prohibiting it? I seem to recall a write up on the Colorado situation a while back... a televised "20/20" kind of thing even. There were growers being interviewed and I remember them saying how they were really putting themselves at risk by being so public about their business... which was legitimate at the state level but still illegal at the Federal.

If this is the case, this could be at least one explanation as to why there continues to be so much underground activity surrounding marijuana that you speak of. Until it is fully and completely legal and able to be safely grown in someone's back yard without violation of any law, state or Federal, then an underground and all the shady activity accompanying it, will still exist.

[NeuroTypical]

Aren't Colorado growers, dispensaries and consumers of medical marijuana still at risk of violating the Federal laws prohibiting it?

Yes. The current administration has specifically come out and said that states are safe from the federal laws, but yeah, that could change.

To be fair, growers and dispensaries are bound by numerous (and constantly changing) federal, state, county, and city/town laws on what they can do, and how they can do it. It's even a zoning issue, where a store on one side of the street follows rules the other side of the street doesn't have to. The battle is engaged, and being fought on every level. This reality is one reason why MJ is effectively legal - because from a cop's point of view, they have so many better things to do than keep up with the laws, better to not enforce anything. They'll investigate complaints, and robberies and whatnot, but as far as I can tell, nobody gets busted for growing, selling, or smoking weed any more unless we're talking pretty massive amounts of obvioiusly illegal weed.

If this is the case, this could be at least one explanation as to why there continues to be so much underground activity surrounding marijuana that you speak of. Until it is fully and completely legal and able to be safely grown in someone's back yard without violation of any law, state or Federal, then an underground and all the shady activity accompanying it, will still exist.

I can agree with that to a certain extent. But I'd also point out that cigarettes and alcohol do not enjoy such a status, so I doubt we'll be seeing that with MJ any time soon.

And as far as I can tell, there is plenty of unrealistic idealism on both sides of the debate. Legalizers point to a world you just described. The Anti-MJ group talk in terms of $ and lives saved if there was no more need for Narcanon and rehab clinics and whatnot.

Me? I try to see the impact from the street (or at least through the eyes of people on the street). Some pretty evil folk are gonna keep MJ in their evil empires of kidnapping, prostitution, child sex slavery, and murder - for as long as there's a buck to be made in it. And that buck will be made no matter which current round of laws are enacted.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Loudmouth_Mormon