JThimm88 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) Today on the Joseph Smith Facebook page (I don't believe it's affiliated with the Church's official page, just FYI), there was a quote that I loved and thought I'd share (and then kind of create some sort of discussion as I've got a question about a comment that followed the quote). "I feel very anxious to see you all once more in this world. The time seems long that I am deprived of your society, but the Lord being my helper, I will not be much longer. ... My dear Emma, my heart is entwined around you and those little ones. I want you to remember me. Tell all the children that I love them and will come home as soon as I can. Yours in the bonds of love, your husband." -- "Chapter 20: A Heart Full of Love and Faith: The Prophet's Letters to His Family," Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2007) As I read that last bit, it just reminded me that despite having such a great calling in the Church being the prophet and all, that Joseph was a human like anyone else and still found the time to fall in love with his wife, loving her like he loved nobody else. ...But then some girl left a comment that I don't understand as I don't know much about Church history. "if Emma had just not made him feel guilty for leaving the Rockies, what a different church it would be." What did she mean by that? When were they in the Rockies, what were they doing there (had they planned on settling there?), how would the Church have been different, how did Emma make Joseph feel "guilty," as the commentator stated? Sorry if some of the answers to the above questions are common knowledge, but as a convert, my in depth history of the Church is totally lacking considering there are so many things happening every day in the Church in this day and age that I like to keep up with instead. I'm just surprised because the comment that Joseph makes doesn't seem like he felt guilty at all for anything. Edited June 22, 2011 by JThimm88 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 The comment makes no sense. Ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'm trying to remember if Joseph ever did go to the Rockies... and I don't think he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trubludru Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 It is probably a referennce to when Joseph with Hyrum and a couple of others planned to flee across the Mississippi River and head to the Rockies to await the migration of the rest of the Saints shortly before Joseph and Hyrum were imprisoned in Carthage Jail. However, the statement does seem incomplete and at least partially incorrect. If I recall correctly Joseph and Hyrum had already crossed to Iowa when word reached them that several people (I don't recall who) requested they return and cooperate with Gov. Ford in trying to calm the situation down. If I recall Joseph said something like "If my life means nothing to my friends then it means nothing to me." (but don't quote me on that). He tried to insist Hyrum continue on to the Rockies so that one of them would survive, but Hyrum insisted on staying with them so they both crossed back to Illinois and gave themselves up. I don't know if Emma in particular sent a message that helped convince him to return or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 "if Emma had just not made him feel guilty for leaving the Rockies, what a different church it would be."The statement seems to be incomplete. There is much discussion about Joseph Smith with regards to the Rockies, having said that unless I know what the person meant I can only state that the early Saints didn't migrate to the Rockies until 1847 (three years after Joseph was murdered). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I don't know if Emma in particular sent a message that helped convince him to return or not.I believe she did, and the statement would have made a lot more sense if it had readif Emma had just not made him feel guilty for leaving for the Rockies, what a different church it would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applepansy Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Joseph never went to the Rockies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 So I suppose we could chalk up this comment to a mere typo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThimm88 Posted June 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Typo, or possibly (now that I think about it) the girl was anti and just wanted everyone who loved that quote to feel bad about liking Emma and Joseph so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 ...But then some girl left a comment that I don't understand as I don't know much about Church history."if Emma had just not made him feel guilty for leaving the Rockies, what a different church it would be."....Here's some information I found in Mormon Enigma:Emma Hale Smith:Although Joseph's own journal, which ends with this date, June 22, 1844, does not mention escaping to the West or the Rocky Mountains, others who later reconstructed the history added that Joseph changed his mind later and decided to "go west and all would be well." They also included his plan to meet Emma in Portsmouth, Ohio. If Joseph had intended to go west, he would not have sent Emma and the children eight hundred miles east to meet him. Portsmouth was the point of departure for Washington. Joseph may have discussed a sanctuary in the West, but a letter he wrote the following day clearly indicates that he had not planned to take a western option then.......Rockwell rowed Joseph, Hyrum, and Willard Richards in a leaky skiff across the rain-swollen Mississippi....Rockwell returned as soon as Joseph had dictated a message to Emma.......Emma read on: "Do not despair - If God ever opens a door that is possible for me I will see you again. I do not know where I shall go, or what I shall do, but shall if possible endevor to get to the city of Washington. May God almighty bless you & the children - & mother & all my friends. My heart bleeds." Joseph closed with a quick "No more at present. If you conclude to go to Kirtland, Cincinnati, or any other place, I wish you would contrive to inform me, this evening."......Alpheus Cutler, Reynolds Cahoon, and several others, including Hiram Kimball, were pursuing a heated conversation. Kimball told Markham that he believed Joseph should return to stand trial. "It is a bailable case and there is no danger." Hiram Kimball's concern was for his considerable property holdings in the city. "It will...lessen the value of property - also ruin a number of men for Joseph to leave," came the argument. They asked Markham to be part of a committee to invite Joseph to come back.......Reynolds Cahoon and Hiram Kimball headed toward the Mansion House. They met Wandle Mace and his brother in the street near Emma's home. Kimball and Cahoon were "very much excited, and thought is was absolutely necessary that Joseph should return," Mace related in his journal. "If Joseph don't come back the Governor will put the city under martial law, and then nothing can be brought into the city, neither can anything be taken out, and then what will all our property be worth?"......Cahoon and Kimball turned toward the Mansion. The Mace brothers watched them stop outside the gate, absorbed in conversation. "We...both felt the impression that they were going to persuade Sister Emma, Joseph's wife, to write to him and prevail on him to return, this feeling came upon us so forcibly, we were very uneasy."Emma, meanwhile, had tried to make an accurate assessment of the situation because she needed to let Joseph know her plans by nightfall. The twenty-man posse from Carthage....told her that if Joseph and Hyrum did not give themselves up Governor Ford "would send his troops and guard the city until they were found, if it took three years to do it."......It was in this state of mind that Reynolds Cahoon and Hiram Kimball found her. She listened to them, then wrote to Joseph. She asked her nephew, Lorenzo Wasson, to go with the two men to find Porter Rockwell, who would take them across the river. The four men reached Joseph at one o'clock that same afternoon on June 23. Joseph read Emma's letter, then handed it to Hyrum. "I know my own business, " he said, indicating that his course would be to leave.Reynolds Cahoon snapped, "You always said if the church would stick to you, you would stick to the church, now trouble comes and you are the first to run." Hiram Kimball chimed in and the two men called Joseph a coward, reminding him that if mobs destroyed their property they would all be homeless.These were cutting words. "If my life is of no value to my friends, it is of none to myself," Joseph replied.......Joseph looked at Hyrum. "What shall we do?""Let's go back and give ourselves up, and see the thing out." Hyrum's daughter was to be married that night, and he wanted to be there.Joseph stood silent for a few minutes, then looked at his older brother. "If you go back I will go with you, but we shall be butchered."Most historians have assumed that Emma's letter caused Joseph to return to Nauvoo, but only Joseph and Hyrum seeded to have read it. It has never been quoted, even in part. William Clayton's diary gives the only clue to the content....But Emma alone did not change his course. Hyrum Smith's desire to be at home and Cahoon's and Kimball's name-calling tipped the balance. But Joseph himself must also accept responsibility for his own decision. Obviously Emma had not expected his return, for she later told a friend, "When he came back I felt the worst I ever did in my life, and from that time I looked for him to be killed."(Mormon Enigma:Emma Hale Smith (Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery) pages 186-188)M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) I'm trying to remember if Joseph ever did go to the Rockies... and I don't think he did.he did not Edited June 28, 2011 by Blackmarch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGStacker Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I have read that Joseph Smith, from a number of sources, wanted to go away to the Rockies. He said that it was one of the safest places in the world. I will Google and look through some of my books to find the actual quote. It always interested me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescueMom Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 if Emma had just not made him feel guilty for leaving for the Rockies, what a different church it would be.His testimony would not be sealed in blood. He would have made it to the Rockies. His family would have remained active in the church. And his testimoney would not be sealed in blood. What difference would it be had he not sealed his testimony with his blood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 What difference would it be had he not sealed his testimony with his blood?You mean if he lived to see 1890? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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