Sealings quiz

Vort · June 22, 2011

CAUTION: This quiz requires legalistic parsing based on the incomplete knowledge we possess at this time. It is therefore not advisable for you to base your future actions or testimony on a silly internet quiz, this or any other.

RULES: Please make acceptable comments and avoid unacceptable comments.

ACCEPTABLE COMMENTS address the quiz choices, e.g.:

"I believe choice X, and here is why."
"I disbelieve choice X, and here is why."
"This issue is more complicated than a simple choice, and here is why."

UNACCEPTABLE COMMENTS avoid addressing the quiz choices, e.g.:

"Don't worry, it will all work out in the Millennium."
"God is perfect, so we can just leave judgment to him and not discuss such things."
"Are you some faith-stealing apostate that you would ask such a question?!"

Brother Bart is sealed to Sister Suzie in the temple. Tragically, they divorce some time later, but do not get their sealing dissolved at that time. Bart then marries Therese in a civil ceremony, and together they produce little Xaviera.

QUESTION 1: Is Xaviera born in the covenant?

Yes, Xaviera is born in the covenant of her father Bart and Suzie, to whom he is sealed.
No, Xaviera is not born in the covenant.

During this time period, Suzie also remarries in a civil ceremony. She and her husband Charlie welcome a new baby, Yolando.

QUESTION 2: Is Yolando born in the covenant?

Yes, Yolando is born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and Bart, to whom she is sealed.
No, Yolando is not born in the covenant.

After some time, Bart and Therese are sealed. Suzie has her sealing to Bart cancelled, and then she is sealed to Charlie.

QUESTION 3: Can little Xaviera be sealed to her parents?

Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. She was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. Her sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; she was born in the covenant of her father Bart and his first wife Suzie, so another sealing is meaningless.

QUESTION 4: Can baby Yolando be sealed to his parents?

Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. He was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. His sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; he was born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and her first husband Bart, so another sealing is meaningless.

Yolando and Xaviera grow up, meet, and against all odds fall in love and are married.

QUESTION 5: Isn't this kind of like, um, incest or something?

This is totally just wrong.
Hmmm. No, not incest, because they aren't related by blood. Just weird.
Oooh, yuck, I can't think about this!

QUESTION 6: Who pays for the reception?

Bride's parents.
Groom's parents.
They split the cost.
Let the darn kids pay for it themselves.

Bart and Suzie's long-lost daughter Wanda comes back one day.

QUESTION 7: How is she introduced by Yolando and Xaviera at Church?

"This is my sister and, um, Yolando's sister, too"?
"Xaviera and I have a sister in common, and, well, here she is."
"Hi, we're Wanda, Xaviera, and Yolando, and we're visiting your ward today."

EDIT: My answers, in case you're interested (select to view):

Is Xaviera born in the covenant? ( B ) No, Xaviera is not born in the covenant.
Is Yolando born in the covenant? ( A ) Yes, Yolando is born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and Bart, to whom she is sealed.
Can little Xaviera be sealed to her parents? ( A ) Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. She was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Can baby Yolando be sealed to his parents? ( C ) Of course not; he was born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and her first husband Bart, so another sealing is meaningless.
Isn't this kind of like, um, incest or something? ( B ) Hmmm. No, not incest, because they aren't related by blood. Just weird.
Who pays for the reception? ( D ) Let the darn kids pay for it themselves.
How is Wanda introduced by Yolando and Xaviera at Church? ( C ) "Hi, we're Wanda, Xaviera, and Yolando, and we're visiting your ward today."

Edited June 22, 2011 by Vort

Backroads · June 22, 2011

Based on my understanding, will happily accept correction.

CAUTION: This quiz requires legalistic parsing based on the incomplete knowledge we possess at this time. It is therefore not advisable for you to base your future actions or testimony on a silly internet quiz, this or any other.
RULES: Please make acceptable comments and avoid unacceptable comments.
ACCEPTABLE COMMENTS address the quiz choices, e.g.:
"I believe choice X, and here is why."
"I disbelieve choice X, and here is why."
"This issue is more complicated than a simple choice, and here is why."
UNACCEPTABLE COMMENTS avoid addressing the quiz choices, e.g.:
"Don't worry, it will all work out in the Millennium."
"God is perfect, so we can just leave judgment to him and not discuss such things."
"Are you some faith-stealing apostate that you would ask such a question?!"
Brother Bart is sealed to Sister Suzie in the temple. Tragically, they divorce some time later, but do not get their sealing dissolved at that time. Bart then marries Therese in a civil ceremony, and together they produce little Xaviera.
QUESTION 1: Is Xaviera born in the covenant?
Yes, Xaviera is born in the covenant of her father Bart and Suzie, to whom he is sealed.
No, Xaviera is not born in the covenant.
During this time period, Suzie also remarries in a civil ceremony. She and her husband Charlie welcome a new baby, Yolando.
QUESTION 2: Is Yolando born in the covenant?
Yes, Yolando is born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and Bart, to whom she is sealed.
No, Yolando is not born in the covenant.
After some time, Bart and Therese are sealed. Suzie has her sealing to Bart cancelled, and then she is sealed to Charlie.
QUESTION 3: Can little Xaviera be sealed to her parents?
Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. She was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. Her sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; she was born in the covenant of her father Bart and his first wife Suzie, so another sealing is meaningless.
QUESTION 4: Can baby Yolando be sealed to his parents?
Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. He was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. His sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; he was born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and her first husband Bart, so another sealing is meaningless.
Yolando and Xaviera grow up, meet, and against all odds fall in love and are married.
QUESTION 5: Isn't this kind of like, um, incest or something?
This is totally just wrong.
Hmmm. No, not incest, because they aren't related by blood. Just weird.
Oooh, yuck, I can't think about this!
QUESTION 6: Who pays for the reception?
Bride's parents.
Groom's parents.
They split the cost.
Let the darn kids pay for it themselves.
Bart and Suzie's long-lost daughter Wanda comes back one day.
QUESTION 7: How is she introduced by Yolando and Xaviera at Church?
"This is my sister and, um, Yolando's sister, too"?
"Xaviera and I have a sister in common, and, well, here she is."
"Hi, we're Wanda, Xaviera, and Yolando, and we're visiting your ward today."

1. No, Xaviera is not born in the covenant.

2. Neither is Yolando. I figure their parents aren't sealed.

3. Yes.

4. Yes, though now I suddenly imagine Suzie being involved at this point.

5. As long as no blood and genetics aren't involved, let the lovers do as they please.

6. Bride's parents. It's traditional.

7. I find all answers acceptable, though the third is the most polite and least awkward.

June 22, 2011

Brother Bart is sealed to Sister Suzie in the temple. Tragically, they divorce some time later, but do not get their sealing dissolved at that time. Bart then marries Therese in a civil ceremony, and together they produce little Xaviera.
QUESTION 1: Is Xaviera born in the covenant?
Yes, Xaviera is born in the covenant of her father Bart and Suzie, to whom he is sealed.
No, Xaviera is not born in the covenant.
During this time period, Suzie also remarries in a civil ceremony. She and her husband Charlie welcome a new baby, Yolando.
QUESTION 2: Is Yolando born in the covenant?
Yes, Yolando is born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and Bart, to whom she is sealed.
no, Yolando is not born in the covenant.
After some time, Bart and Therese are sealed. Suzie has her sealing to Bart cancelled, and then she is sealed to Charlie.
QUESTION 3: Can little Xaviera be sealed to her parents?
Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. She was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. Her sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; she was born in the covenant of her father Bart and his first wife Suzie, so another sealing is meaningless.
QUESTION 4: Can baby Yolando be sealed to his parents?
Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. He was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. His sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; he was born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and her first husband Bart, so another sealing is meaningless.
Yolando and Xaviera grow up, meet, and against all odds fall in love and are married.
QUESTION 5: Isn't this kind of like, um, incest or something?
This is totally just wrong.
Hmmm. No, not incest, because they aren't related by blood. Just weird.
Oooh, yuck, I can't think about this!
QUESTION 6: Who pays for the reception?
Bride's parents.
Groom's parents.
They split the cost.
Let the darn kids pay for it themselves.
Bart and Suzie's long-lost daughter Wanda comes back one day.
QUESTION 7: How is she introduced by Yolando and Xaviera at Church?
"This is my sister and, um, Yolando's sister, too"?
"Xaviera and I have a sister in common, and, well, here she is."
"Hi, we're Wanda, Xaviera, and Yolando, and we're visiting your ward today."

Comment section:

1. My interpretation is that you are only born into the covenant between the two people who made the covenant, since the child’s mother was under no covenant neither is the child.

2. Same as above.

3. See explanation 1&2

4. Same as above

5. It is a little weird although it’s not technically wrong or illegal.

6.This just gives me a headache

7.Ala "I’m my own grandpa" explanation

rameumptom · June 22, 2011

Brother Bart is sealed to Sister Suzie in the temple. Tragically, they divorce some time later, but do not get their sealing dissolved at that time. Bart then marries Therese in a civil ceremony, and together they produce little Xaviera.
QUESTION 1: Is Xaviera born in the covenant?
Yes, Xaviera is born in the covenant of her father Bart and Suzie, to whom he is sealed.
No, Xaviera is not born in the covenant.

B. Xaviera is NOT born in the covenant, as the sealing covenant is between husband and wife that were in the temple. The earthly marriage breaks future sealing of children.

During this time period, Suzie also remarries in a civil ceremony. She and her husband Charlie welcome a new baby, Yolando.
QUESTION 2: Is Yolando born in the covenant?
Yes, Yolando is born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and Bart, to whom she is sealed.
No, Yolando is not born in the covenant.

B. Same reason. While some may claim that the children belong to Bart, I'm of the opinion that the sealing is between a couple and God. While the sealing is technically still intact, the spirit of the covenant has been broken. The blessing remains for the sake of the children previously BIC. As it is, this happened with my oldest son. He civilly married a wonderful lady with two kids, previously sealed to her first husband. They had their first child, a son. About a year later they were sealed in the temple, including their son, to them (not her first husband).

After some time, Bart and Therese are sealed. Suzie has her sealing to Bart cancelled, and then she is sealed to Charlie.
QUESTION 3: Can little Xaviera be sealed to her parents?
Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. She was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. Her sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; she was born in the covenant of her father Bart and his first wife Suzie, so another sealing is meaningless.

A. The previous sealing did not affect Xaviera. I've actually seen this in practice, where a divorced person remarried in the temple and had their child sealed to him and his new spouse.

QUESTION 4: Can baby Yolando be sealed to his parents?
Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. He was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. His sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; he was born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and her first husband Bart, so another sealing is meaningless.

A. Again, the sealing does not affect children born to other parents. We do not consider levirate marriages occurring via divorce.

Yolando and Xaviera grow up, meet, and against all odds fall in love and are married.
QUESTION 5: Isn't this kind of like, um, incest or something?
This is totally just wrong.
Hmmm. No, not incest, because they aren't related by blood. Just weird.
Oooh, yuck, I can't think about this!

B. Well they aren't related by blood, so they could marry I suppose. And yes, it would be weird.

QUESTION 6: Who pays for the reception?
Bride's parents.
Groom's parents.
They split the cost.
Let the darn kids pay for it themselves.

E. They elope.

Bart and Suzie's long-lost daughter Wanda comes back one day.
QUESTION 7: How is she introduced by Yolando and Xaviera at Church?
"This is my sister and, um, Yolando's sister, too"?
"Xaviera and I have a sister in common, and, well, here she is."
"Hi, we're Wanda, Xaviera, and Yolando, and we're visiting your ward today."

A, B or C. It depends on how they desire to answer it. Relationships in our day and age are often very complicated. Not any more strange than some relationships among polygamous Mormon families or back wood rednecks from south-eastern Kentucky a few decades back. (If your family tree is a straight stick, you may be a redneck...) Edited June 22, 2011 by rameumptom

Jennarator · June 22, 2011

I read the post called "born under the covenant" http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/38824-born-under-covenant.html

I don't know how to do the cute little link thing...

Anyways, some of the answers on this trhead are different from the answers on that thread.

Now I am really confused. Good thing Heavenly Father fixes everything, later. :) (Accourding to faith and our choices, of course.)

Edit:

Well look there! I did the cute link thing without even knowing it! Next time it will look better! Hahahah!!!

applepansy · June 22, 2011

1. B (Sealing was never dissolved, which makes both children BIC.)

2. B (see #1)

3. B (see #1)

4. C (see #1)

5. B (Not blood related so in the eyes of the law not incest, just weird)

6. D (Tradionally Bride's parents but...none of the above senario is trandional.)

7. C Most polite.

Maureen · June 22, 2011

QUESTION 1: Is Xaviera born in the covenant?

A. Yes, Xaviera is born in the covenant of her father Bart and Suzie, to whom he is sealed.

QUESTION 2: Is Yolando born in the covenant?

A. Yes, Yolando is born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and Bart, to whom she is sealed.

QUESTION 3: Can little Xaviera be sealed to her parents?

C. Of course not; she was born in the covenant of her father Bart and his first wife Suzie, so another sealing is meaningless…..unless the first presidency works their magic and allows Xaviera to be sealed to her biological parents.

QUESTION 4: Can baby Yolando be sealed to his parents?

C. Of course not; he was born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and her first husband Bart, so another sealing is meaningless….. unless the first presidency works their magic and allows Yolando to be sealed to his biological parents.

QUESTION 5: Isn't this kind of like, um, incest or something?

B. Hmmm. No, not incest, because they aren't related by blood. Just weird.

QUESTION 6: Who pays for the reception?

D. Let the darn kids pay for it themselves.

QUESTION 7: How is she introduced by Yolando and Xaviera at Church?

C. ”Hi, we're Wanda, Xaviera, and Yolando, and we're visiting your ward today."

M. :)

Traveler · June 22, 2011

Since I have not been banned yet -- It is my understanding that despite having completed any and all ordinances the blessings will not be received in eternity unless the Holy Ghost “seals” the covenantal contract. Thus, unless a person is obedient to their covenants the blessings cannot be realized.

The Traveler

Backroads · June 22, 2011

My question is if Xaviera and Yolando are allowed to legally change their names...

applepansy · June 23, 2011

Since I have not been banned yet -- It is my understanding that despite having completed any and all ordinances the blessings will not be received in eternity unless the Holy Ghost “seals” the covenantal contract. Thus, unless a person is obedient to their covenants the blessings cannot be realized.

The Traveler

As far as the parents are concerned, yes. But the child is still BIC and eligible for the blessings of being BIC.

applepansy · June 23, 2011

My question is if Xaviera and Yolando are allowed to legally change their names...

giggle... I agree.

skippy740 · June 23, 2011

My answers are in red.

Brother Bart is sealed to Sister Suzie in the temple. Tragically, they divorce some time later, but do not get their sealing dissolved at that time. Bart then marries Therese in a civil ceremony, and together they produce little Xaviera.
QUESTION 1: Is Xaviera born in the covenant?
Yes, Xaviera is born in the covenant of her father Bart and Suzie, to whom he is sealed.
No, Xaviera is not born in the covenant. (Because Bart & Therese were married in a civil ceremony and not sealed before Xaviera was born.)
During this time period, Suzie also remarries in a civil ceremony. She and her husband Charlie welcome a new baby, Yolando.
QUESTION 2: Is Yolando born in the covenant?
Yes, Yolando is born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and Bart, to whom she is sealed.
No, Yolando is not born in the covenant. (Same as answer above)
Explanation: How can you be born into a broken covenant? If both are still sealed to each other, but each have children with new civil spouses... aren't these spiritually illegitimate children? They've committed "adultery" against their spiritual covenant that is still in-force on the records of the church.
Note: My rationale may not be what is actual church policy & procedure, but it's what makes the most sense to me.
After some time, Bart and Therese are sealed. Suzie has her sealing to Bart cancelled, and then she is sealed to Charlie.
QUESTION 3: Can little Xaviera be sealed to her parents?
Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. She was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. Her sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; she was born in the covenant of her father Bart and his first wife Suzie, so another sealing is meaningless.
QUESTION 4: Can baby Yolando be sealed to his parents?
Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. He was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. His sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; he was born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and her first husband Bart, so another sealing is meaningless.
Yolando and Xaviera grow up, meet, and against all odds fall in love and are married.
QUESTION 5: Isn't this kind of like, um, incest or something?
This is totally just wrong.
Hmmm. No, not incest, because they aren't related by blood. Just weird.
Oooh, yuck, I can't think about this!
QUESTION 6: Who pays for the reception?
Bride's parents.
Groom's parents.
They split the cost.
Let the darn kids pay for it themselves.
Bart and Suzie's long-lost daughter Wanda comes back one day.
QUESTION 7: How is she introduced by Yolando and Xaviera at Church?
"This is my sister and, um, Yolando's sister, too"?
"Xaviera and I have a sister in common, and, well, here she is."
"Hi, we're Wanda, Xaviera, and Yolando, and we're visiting your ward today." (Half-siblings are rather common-place, but no one really cares "which half" people are because love knows no "half".

Edited June 23, 2011 by skippy740

classylady · June 23, 2011

Brother Bart is sealed to Sister Suzie in the temple. Tragically, they divorce some time later, but do not get their sealing dissolved at that time. Bart then marries Therese in a civil ceremony, and together they produce little Xaviera.

QUESTION 1: Is Xaviera born in the covenant?

Yes, Xaviera is born in the covenant of her father Bart and Suzie, to whom he is sealed.
No, Xaviera is not born in the covenant.

NO NOT BORN IN COVENANT BECAUSE PARENTS ARE MARRIED CIVILLY--NOT SEALED.

During this time period, Suzie also remarries in a civil ceremony. She and her husband Charlie welcome a new baby, Yolando.

QUESTION 2: Is Yolando born in the covenant?

Yes, Yolando is born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and Bart, to whom she is sealed.
No, Yolando is not born in the covenant.

YES, BORN IN THE COVENANT. SUZIE IS STILL CONSIDERED SEALED--JUST LIKE A WIDOW. A WIDOW WHEN REMARRYING CIVILLY IS STILL CONSIDERED SEALED TO HER DECEASED HUSBAND. SUBSEQUENT CHILDREN WOULD BE CONSIDERED SEALED TO HER AND HER FORMER SPOUSE. REMEMBER IN GENESIS HOW JUDAH'S WIDOWED DAUGHTER-IN-LAW TAMAR WAS PROMISED TO HIS YOUNGER SON "TO RAISE UP SEED TO THY BROTHER". NOW, IF SUSIE HAD BEEN EXCOMMUNICATED THEN THE CHILDREN WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED BORN IN THE COVENANT BECAUSE THE SEALING WOULD HAVE BEEN REVOKED. BUT SHE WAS NOT EXCOMMUNICATED SO SEALING IS STILL INTACT AND HER SUBSEQUENT CHILDREN ARE CONSIDERED BIC. THE MAN WHO REMARRIES CIVILLY IS NOT AFFORDED THIS SAME PROTECTION OF SUBSEQUENT CHILDREN BIC--EVEN IF HE WAS WIDOWED--BUT HE HAS THE OPTION OF BEING SEALED TO MORE THAN ONE WIFE AT A TIME. THE WOMAN DOES NOT HAVE THAT OPTION.

After some time, Bart and Therese are sealed. Suzie has her sealing to Bart cancelled, and then she is sealed to Charlie.

QUESTION 3: Can little Xaviera be sealed to her parents?

Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. She was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course she can be sealed to her father Bart and to her real, biological mother Therese. Her sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; she was born in the covenant of her father Bart and his first wife Suzie, so another sealing is meaningless.

YES, SHE CAN BE SEALED TO HER BIOLOGICAL PARENTS BECAUSE SHE WAS NOT BIC.

QUESTION 4: Can baby Yolando be sealed to his parents?

Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. He was never sealed to anyone else in the first place.
Of course he can be sealed to his real, biological father Charlie and to his mother Suzie. His sealing to Bart and Suzie is of no effect, since the sealing between them no longer exists.
Of course not; he was born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and her first husband Bart, so another sealing is meaningless.

NO SEALING IS NECESSARY BECAUSE CHILD WAS BIC.

Yolando and Xaviera grow up, meet, and against all odds fall in love and are married.

QUESTION 5: Isn't this kind of like, um, incest or something?

This is totally just wrong.
Hmmm. No, not incest, because they aren't related by blood. Just weird.
Oooh, yuck, I can't think about this!

NO PROBLEM. NO BLOOD RELATIONSHIP. JUST AWKWARD BETWEEN PARENTS.

QUESTION 6: Who pays for the reception?

Bride's parents.
Groom's parents.
They split the cost.
Let the darn kids pay for it themselves.

ANY OR ALL OF THE ABOVE.

Bart and Suzie's long-lost daughter Wanda comes back one day.

QUESTION 7: How is she introduced by Yolando and Xaviera at Church?

"This is my sister and, um, Yolando's sister, too"?
"Xaviera and I have a sister in common, and, well, here she is."
"Hi, we're Wanda, Xaviera, and Yolando, and we're visiting your ward today."

HI, WE'RE WANDA, XAVIERA, AND YOLANDO...EVEN THOUGH TECHNICALLY WANDA WOULD BE THEIR HALF-SISTER. Edited June 23, 2011 by classylady

Maureen · June 23, 2011

...YES, BORN IN THE COVENANT. SUZIE IS STILL CONSIDERED SEALED--JUST LIKE A WIDOW. A WIDOW WHEN REMARRYING CIVILLY IS STILL CONSIDERED SEALED TO HER DECEASED HUSBAND. SUBSEQUENT CHILDREN WOULD BE CONSIDERED SEALED TO HER AND HER FORMER SPOUSE. REMEMBER IN GENESIS HOW JUDAH'S WIDOWED DAUGHTER-IN-LAW TAMAR WAS PROMISED TO HIS YOUNGER SON "TO RAISE UP SEED TO THY BROTHER". NOW, IF SUSIE HAD BEEN EXCOMMUNICATED THEN THE CHILDREN WOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED BORN IN THE COVENANT BECAUSE THE SEALING WOULD HAVE BEEN REVOKED. BUT SHE WAS NOT EXCOMMUNICATED SO SEALING IS STILL INTACT AND HER SUBSEQUENT CHILDREN ARE CONSIDERED BIC. THE MAN WHO REMARRIES CIVILLY IS NOT AFFORDED THIS SAME PROTECTION OF SUBSEQUENT CHILDREN BIC--EVEN IF HE WAS WIDOWED--BUT HE HAS THE OPTION OF BEING SEALED TO MORE THAN ONE WIFE AT A TIME. THE WOMAN DOES NOT HAVE THAT OPTION...

Regarding the bold statement - why not?

M.

classylady · June 23, 2011

Regarding the bold statement - why not?
M.

Maureen, I'm not a gospel scholar so I don't know all the whys and the wherefores. My understanding would be because in the case of widowhood, the wife is still considered sealed to her late husband. And her subsequent children that she would have in a civil marriage--or even out of wedlock, would be sealed to her and her deceased husband. This would hold true for divorce if the wife has not received a sealing cancellation, and/or been excommunicated from the church. If excommunicated, her sealing would be revoked.

In the case of a man being widowed, or divorced, and if he remarries civilly, and the new spouse has not previously been sealed, the children would not be born in the covenant. It seems to me, that the sealing goes through the mother. Why? I don't have the answer to that. Maybe because the man can be sealed to more than one wife while in mortality, but the woman may only be sealed to one man. Why? Again, I don't have the answer to that.

pam · June 23, 2011

During this time period, Suzie also remarries in a civil ceremony. She and her husband Charlie welcome a new baby, Yolando.

QUESTION 2: Is Yolando born in the covenant?

Yes, Yolando is born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and Bart, to whom she is sealed.
No, Yolando is not born in the covenant.

My response to this is A. My understanding is that as long as this couple are still sealed, any children born to them even with another spouse are covered under their sealing.

June 23, 2011

Lets suppose that both Yolondo and Xaviera are BIC of Bart and Suzie, can they then later be sealed to each other? aren't they technically already sealed?

(btw, thanks (sarcasim)to vort for using these names and not simple ones like john and sally)

applepansy · June 23, 2011

Lets suppose that both Yolondo and Xaviera are BIC of Bart and Suzie, can they then later be sealed to each other? aren't they technically already sealed?
(btw, thanks (sarcasim)to vort for using these names and not simple ones like john and sally)

Parents are sealed as spouses, children are sealed to their parents. Its one continuous cycle and the entire family of God will be sealed together.

applepansy · June 23, 2011

Am I misunderstanding the senario?

Bart and Suzie are married and sealed in the temple. They get divorced but do not cancel the sealing. They both get remarried and each has a child with the new spouse. right?

Vort · June 23, 2011

Am I misunderstanding the senario?
Bart and Suzie are married and sealed in the temple. They get divorced but do not cancel the sealing. They both get remarried and each has a child with the new spouse. right?

You are not misunderstanding the scenario.

And now, Vort attempts the rare quadruple negative...

You fail to lack in not misunderstanding the scenario.

classylady · June 23, 2011

During this time period, Suzie also remarries in a civil ceremony. She and her husband Charlie welcome a new baby, Yolando.
QUESTION 2: Is Yolando born in the covenant?
Yes, Yolando is born in the covenant of his mother Suzie and Bart, to whom she is sealed.
No, Yolando is not born in the covenant.
My response to this is A. My understanding is that as long as this couple are still sealed, any children born to them even with another spouse are covered under their sealing.

You are right that the child born to the wife would still be BIC. But a child born to the husband who has remarried civilly is not BIC. I researched this about a year ago. It is on "Ask Gramps".

Edit: Also, I have first hand knowledge of this. My husband and I were first married civilly. He had been sealed to his first wife and his sealing had not been cancelled. When we were sealed in the temple our first child needed to be sealed to us as he was not considered born in the covenant.

Edited June 23, 2011 by classylady

applepansy · June 23, 2011

You are not misunderstanding the scenario.
And now, Vort attempts the rare quadruple negative...
You fail to lack in not misunderstanding the scenario.

Then both children are covered by the sealing and are BIC. Its not reasonable that one child should be and the other not.

Vort · June 23, 2011

Then both children are covered by the sealing and are BIC. Its not reasonable that one child should be and the other not.

Suppose, back in the plural marriage days, a man had two wives, one to whom he was sealed and one to whom he was not sealed. Would you then agree that all children born to either wife were born in the covenant?

applepansy · June 23, 2011

Suppose, back in the plural marriage days, a man had two wives, one to whom he was sealed and one to whom he was not sealed. Would you then agree that all children born to either wife were born in the covenant?

I know from family records that all the children were considered BIC

June 23, 2011

this whole thread is making my head hurt. Do you see why so many people say it will all be worked out later?

Sign In

Sealings quiz

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

classylady

pam

mordorbund

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest saintish

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest saintish

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Guest saintish

Link to comment

Share on other sites

Join the conversation

Announcements