Worst BJJ injury ever

[J-DawgFluffy]

But Kenpo isn't the same as what it taught as "karate" today. Ed Parker never wanted to have belt system or have tournaments. It wasn't until he graduated from BYU and moved to LA that he realized how much traditional Martial Arts don't work in street fights and from there set out to develop a system that WOULD work in street fights.

[Vort]

I took a form of "kenpo" that was supposedly based in part off of Ed Parker's system. I know that Parker's was more reality-oriented, so it's unfair to judge all karate by my experience -- though I did work in several different styles before throwing my hands up in disgust. I just pretty much soured on all karate.

I was in my mid-30s in the late '90s when I was introduced to BJJ. I watched, first in great skepticism and then in increasing disbelief and amazement. I went to my cousin and said, "I've found what we wanted when we did karate! It's The Real Thing! It's called 'Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu'! You've gotta see it!" He responded, "Oh, yeah, I've seen it. It's okay, pretty good, but looks quite limited." Yeah, well, whatever. I had never seen real judo done before, so I had never seen an actually effective Eastern system of unarmed fighting. Tae kwan do was the closest I had seen, and TKD practitioners were honest enough to admit that theirs was a sport and only marginally a fighting system. (Which, frankly, is what judo has become, but that's a different subject.)

To this day, I'm a fan of MMA, in large part because of its roots in BJJ and its obvious effectiveness in a real fighting situation. If I were younger, thinner, stronger, richer, and in better physical condition, and I had more time, I would definitely train in BJJ and/or MMA.

[J-DawgFluffy]

Well again, it's important to realize that any training will give you an advantage, but the Gracie themselves never wanted anything to do with Parker. No one ever touched Kenpo until after he passed, at which everyone decided they knew how to "improve" it and ended up removing pretty much everything that makes it work.

I have an advantage in that I have a short line to Ed Ed Parker -> Frank Trejo -> Bob Fitzgerald -> me

So What I am learning is still largely unaffected by others.

I should add that Parker included Judo into Kenpo, but it isn't discussed until one had mastered the "striking" aspects of fighting.

[Guest]

But Kenpo isn't the same as what it taught as "karate" today. Ed Parker never wanted to have belt system or have tournaments. It wasn't until he graduated from BYU and moved to LA that he realized how much traditional Martial Arts don't work in street fights and from there set out to develop a system that WOULD work in street fights.

J-Dawg... sorry, Ed Parker American Kenpo dojos are not very good with quality control. A lot of the schools are what we call McDojos...

BJJ - especially the Gracie Barra schools - has a very tight quality control system. You can really see the overall quality of the GB International community when you attend a GB tournament (tournament open only to GB students). When they match in the competitions, the color of the belt is guaranteed to put two people of the same skill level in a fair fight regardless of which school in which part of the world they hailed from.

Talking of street fights - a single martial arts style is not going to be effective. You need both a striking and a grappling style. Kenpo is a striking style, BJJ is a grappling style. Yeah, Kenpo tried to incorporate grappling in the new curriculum but a GB-BJJ student will beat your Kenpo student on the ground guaranteed.

When you find yourself in a fight at the school playground, your striking style will do you no good. It will only get you sent to the principal's office with a possible expulsion. Your BJJ will be of more use to incapacitate in a fight with the advantage that it doesn't really matter how big your opponent is, you can still incapacitate him.

When you're in a bully gang fight, your BJJ won't do you much good. The time it takes to choke out an opponent would have 2 more of his friends already at your back knocking you senseless. GB-BJJ, of course, is not just grappling. It teaches you striking as well but a Kenpo student would beat your BJJ student in a stand-up fight.

But, Mixed Martial Arts is really where it is at when we're talking about surviving a street fight. A good mix is to combine Filipino Eskrima (includes Arnis/Kali) and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. Of course, I'm Filipino, so I have some bias. But Eskrima is a fighting style that is not for "tournament" at all. It's completely survival based. Eskrima teaches a range of street weapons (using and disarming) and progresses to open-hand combat. The style is designed to use the opponent's force to add to your own which makes little people (like most Filipinos) more effective against big people even in a multi-opponent scenario. Combined with the grappling methods of BJJ, it's a very well-rounded MMA arsenal designed specifically for street fights with or without weapons. The only problem is quality Eskrima schools in the US are few and far between.

[J-DawgFluffy]

uhm, judo was incorporated a long time ago. True parker kenpo actually holds up quite well but it not good for tournaments because one of the things we train for is disabling through injury, we don't use submissions. by indstructor Bob trained special forces for a while actually. shad a lot of old stuff from the training before his crazier ex wife ran off with it...

[Guest]

uhm, judo was incorporated a long time ago. True parker kenpo actually holds up quite well but it not good for tournaments because one of the things we train for is disabling through injury, we don't use submissions. by indstructor Bob trained special forces for a while actually. shad a lot of old stuff from the training before his crazier ex wife ran off with it...

Kenpo 5.0 or some such... a BJJ student can still beat your Kenpo student on the ground guaranteed. There are just too many grappling things BJJ teaches that Kenpo doesn't. I would even pit a GB-BJJ student against an Erik Paulson CSW student and I still believe the GB-BJJ student will hold his own on the ground game.

Of course, I'm only talking American Kenpo Karate as taught by the Kenpo Karate schools in my town, all of which are McDojos. I don't know what you are practicing. And, I'm always leary about name-dropping... Like Ed Parker trained Elvis... and this guy trained the Police Academy and this guy trained special forces. More often than not, the school does not reflect the name drop as evidenced by the flailing arms of the students yelling "Yaaa!".

Edited January 16, 2013 by anatess

[J-DawgFluffy]

again: if you say so.

[Guest]

again: if you say so.

Is this supposed to be insulting?

[J-DawgFluffy]

no. im just done arguing over this.

[Guest]

no. im just done arguing over this.

Didn't know we were arguing. I thought we were sharing information.

[Vort]

Friends, this thread was never meant to be a, um, urination contest, and I'd rather it not get closed. I'm sorry I dissed karate; that was out of line.

[Guest]

Friends, this thread was never meant to be a, um, urination contest, and I'd rather it not get closed. I'm sorry I dissed karate; that was out of line.

It's easy to do when you see the quality of many of the Karate schools in my corner of Florida. The Tae Kwon Do schools are also not very good as far as fighting goes but at least, like you said, the instructors don't advertise it as a "fighting" discipline but simply fun and exercise. Of course, there are legit karate schools out there - my uncle is a nth-dan-of-some-kind who ran his own karate school in the Philippines. But, so far, in my search for a good martial arts school for my kids in the US, the karate schools disappoint. The Filipino eskrima schools disappoint as well. I was very surprised to see a 12-year-old sporting a red belt in the Eskrima school! That threw up an immediate flag to me! I learned that you pay $35 to take a test and you get a stripe...

[Latter Days Guy]

It's easy to do when you see the quality of many of the Karate schools in my corner of Florida. The Tae Kwon Do schools are also not very good as far as fighting goes but at least, like you said, the instructors don't advertise it as a "fighting" discipline but simply fun and exercise. Of course, there are legit karate schools out there - my uncle is a nth-dan-of-some-kind who ran his own karate school in the Philippines. But, so far, in my search for a good martial arts school for my kids in the US, the karate schools disappoint. The Filipino eskrima schools disappoint as well. I was very surprised to see a 12-year-old sporting a red belt in the Eskrima school! That threw up an immediate flag to me! I learned that you pay $35 to take a test and you get a stripe...

Why would you be surprised that a 12 year old having a red belt? In the club that I attend red is the belt you get after white! What system of eskrima was it? I'm a Doce Pares man myself.

EDIT

bit of a mistake on my behalf, red isn't the belt you get after white that is yellow and then its red!!

Edited November 4, 2013 by GB-UK