Joining the Church at the cost of my marriage?


lvlady
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Hi Everyone-

I am interested in joining the church. I have gone back and forth with it for a long time, and a good chunk of my family is LDS. However, I have been married for about 8 months now, and my husband has told me, flat out, that he will not love me if I am Mormon, or if I am even active in ANY church (When we were dating he never said anything like this.). I know divorce is wrong and I never wanted to be in this position (But who ever wants that for themselves?)and I wouldn't say, "I'm going to church now and we are over now," I would start going and see if he comes around. But I am 99% sure he wouldn't.

If anyone has any advice, I would sure appreciate it. Thank you.

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I just got divorced. But not because of religion. Although my ex and I were of different faiths. I was raised LDS, but rarely attended most of my adult life. He was Catholic, but never attended.

We NEVER fought about religion. It was just never a problem.

First piece of advice-- DO NOT place a lot of value on him "coming around". Do not demand it. Do not try to make him. just because he doesn't go to your church, does not mean you can't be together, and be perfectly happy. Really, DON'T start this out with the the expectation, or even the HOPE that he will join. That will only lead to disaster .

I personally think that in a healthy relationship, you can be from different planets, and it will still work if you are both good people, leading a clean life, and are very tolerant. And it helps if you naturally enjoy learning about and experiencing other lifestyles/cultures/religions. Which I do! I'm naturally inclined toward exploring that, and always have been. That's why I don't mind other faiths.

So I think maybe you should explain to your husband that you converting to a church, is not going to mean that you will be trying to convert HIM at every turn. That you're not gonna be trying to dominate the upbringing of any kids, and leave his opinions and influence out of the parenting. I think he's just afraid of that. Maybe he wants things between you and him to be the same, and he wants to continue being free to be whoever he is.

Some people are afraid of churches/denominations. They feel like it takes away your individuality, and your own opinions. And some denominations actually do! lol. But you gotta reassure him that you are not joining to put a wedge between the two of you. And that nothing in your relationship is going to change. This is just something that makes you feel better.

Live up to that promise too, above all else.. Don't come home and talk "church this, church that, scripture, scripture, scripture". Because that is really going to drive him away. I know when you are having great feelings and experiences, and you are discovering amazing spiritual things, you just want to tell everybody about it, and get them wanting what you have... But that's just not a good idea in some situations.

My suggestion-- if someone from the church invites you to go anywhere (RS get-togethers, VT stuff, lunch, play dates, etc.), or any church functions... Just say those people are your "friends" and you're gonna go do something fun to get out of the house. Its not necessary to mention to your man that its a "church function", or that you know those people from the church-- because that just makes it look like its taking over your life. That will scare him too. Let all the members in the ward know about your delicate situation, and ask them if they come by your house, to please not amplify that their relationship to you is purely church-related. Ask them to introduce themselves simply as "your friends", or perhaps, friends of the family.

The only condition I have in relationships for religion, is that neither of us tries to convert the other. A man can tell me about his beliefs all he wants, and I will tell him mine. Just so we can learn about where we are both coming from. But we do not argue about which is "better". Everything else-- I know that God will sort it all out later. So I don't worry about it.

Edited by Melissa569
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I wonder why he would not love you anymore if you joined a church? I think the church usually advises against divorcing your spouse just to become a member. Maybe you could talk to him and make him understand your feelings about the church.

It seems selfish on his part not to compromise with you on this subject.

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SpringGirl-- Agreed.

Just as another example of how two people from VERY different walks of life can still make it work-- There is actually a Muslim man who is somewhat interested in me now. He is currently my best friend in the whole world. He's an English teacher, very intelligent, very educated, and very kind to everyone. But I told him that I need "time" before I try any other relationships, which is understandable, lol. Anyway, we have our conversations, and its good to make and example of them, I think.

We were discussing what would happen if we did become a couple in the future. Like children and such... He said that in his religion, it is actually strictly FORBIDDEN to allow your children to be raised as non-Mulims, and there are serious consequences for allowing this. So he would have to raise them Muslim, and it was NOT something he was permitted to negotiate about.

I said, "Well, I don't mind that... But they would have a Christian/American mother. So try as I might, they will be exposed to some bits of Christianity. I decorate my house during Christmas. I make Christmas and Easter dinner... I got o church on Sundays. And if they ask me about god or heaven, I can only tell them what I know..."

He said, "I don't mind if you decorate for Christmas, or make religious meals. I don't care if you keep a holy week end. Muslims do as well, only for us, it is Friday, not Sunday. The Qur'an says we must honor ALL prophets and significant religious figures. Its says there are only 3 religions that God will accept as valid-- Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Our book contains all the same old testament stories and names as the bible does. And some new testament as well. We do believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) was born to a virgin named Mary, and that he performed great miracles, through the will of god, such as healing the sick and raising the dead. We do believe that he was sent to earth to teach and spread the word of God. So naturally, I do not mind if you want to celebrate his presence on earth. He is a sacred soul. But it is little things like calling God "father". We do not do this, for us its forbidden. Our relationship with God is not a father/child relationship. It is a master/servant relationship. We submit to his will, even if we do not like it, or agree with it. We also believe that Jesus was saved by God and drawn up to heaven without dying, the way Elijah was. But that another man was thought to be him, and was crucified. So when you speak to the children about religion, you would have to be careful about little things like that. Just say things that would apply to ANY faith. And they would not be allowed to attend Christian church functions. Muslim children are not allowed to be directly exposed to other temples, until they fully and completely understand their own faith."

And to me, that's no big deal, really. I can just learn to say "God" instead of "Heavenly father". And just say "when Jesus ascended to heaven" instead of "when Jesus was crucified" (because even we believe that in the end, after being resurrected, he ascended to heaven). So its not that far of a stretch. But its all about working with each other. Working around differences.

Edited by Melissa569
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If your husband is already trying to control you with the "I won't love you anymore if you ___" routine after only eight months of marriage, then you guys have bigger issues than religion.

That's also true. I hope he really didn't mean that... Well, I'm SURE he didn't, but maybe you could just say this is something for your own personal growth, and he doesn't have to feel threatened by it.

You don't have to answer if you prefer not to say, I'm just curious, but... Is he non-denominational? Non-Christian? Or is he perhaps an atheist? If he's an atheist, that might be a bit more difficult... Because in that case, its not just this particular church, or churches in general that offends him-- its faith in God all together. In that case, you'll need to take a long, hard look at things. Whether or not God exists, is a lot more profound a difference than one religion vs. another. Despite their differences, all religions at least have the belief in God in common.

Edited by Melissa569
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And to me, that's no big deal, really. I can just learn to say "God" instead of "Heavenly father". And just say "when Jesus ascended to heaven" instead of "when Jesus was crucified" (because even we believe that in the end, after being resurrected, he ascended to heaven). So its not that far of a stretch. But its all about working with each other. Working around differences.

I would have a difficult time with this. Especially not even being a "couple" yet. You are already considering what you would have to give up. Those would be too big of issues for me because I believe God is my Heavenly Father and that Christ was crucified.

Perhaps I'm just in a different place. I've been divorced for a long time, I'm older and at this point in my life I'm just not willing to give up my own principles when it comes to religion.

Edited by pam
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Melissa-He is a atheist. He doesn't have an issue with being lutheran (which is what he is baptized as) or non denominational he even said he would maybe go to services every once in awhile (Although to just "make me happy" so obviously he doesn't believe it and I wouldn't want him to go in that case), he just has an issue with me being LDS.

Just A Guy- You are right. lol. We do have more issues. He is in counseling currently for some issues he has had. Particularly lying to me about some things.

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My answer is not specifically LDS, but your situation was so common in the early New Testament church that Scripture gives us clear guidelines. In first century Rome, Christianity was viewed as a Jewish cult, who's leader had been executed by the government. The Roman Pagans despised Christians. So, when someone converted to faith in Christ, it was very common for spouses to demand a divorce. Paul's counsel? Let them go. If they choose to leave, especially because of faith, then Paul also says there is freedom to remarry. This is abandonment. The responsiblity lies with the one who leaves.

Again, my counsel is not LDS, but rather the majority perspective amongst evangelicals. However, my guess is that with the LDS high regard for agency, most would also say you cannot keep ahold of someone who promises to reject you for your relationship with Heavenly Father.

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I like PC's advice and I'll expound on it a bit.

Matthew 10:32-37

32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

That said, this is ancient scripture.

Today, the LDS church does not advocate divorce for the sake of joining the faith. Some have done it, of course. Currently, if a wife desires baptism into the church, and the husband forbids it, then she is not baptized.

I believe it is because we, as a church, support the family, and do not want to be the cause of a possible family breakup.

BUT... you have different issues besides this. You're only married for 8 months, and just NOW you're talking about religion?

Many men marry women hoping that they'll never change. Many women marry men hoping they WILL change.

As was said before, you have more issues in your marriage than just this one.

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Today, the LDS church does not advocate divorce for the sake of joining the faith. Some have done it, of course. Currently, if a wife desires baptism into the church, and the husband forbids it, then she is not baptized.

For the sake of clarity, are you saying the church does not advocate leaving a spouse over religion? If so "ancient scripture" agrees. Paul says to love the unbelieving spouse. He suggests that they might even convert. Of course, that means they might not. So long as peace is possible, stay.

On the other hand, would the church really deny a convert baptism because of an unbelieving spouse? I find that surprising? Children should be made to wait until adulthood, if parents oppose. However, adults would be denied baptism because of spousal opposition???

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I won't say that it's doctrinal, but it's been a practice of the church. I'm sure it's written somewhere too. Perhaps there are some cues from the Proclamation to the World on the Family.

Father is to preside over the household. This is why missionaries always ask the father-figure who may offer prayers before discussions. This also means that the husband (who should be presiding over their families in love and righteousness) is the one who directs the spiritual matters of the home.

If there is a disagreement (wife wants to convert, but husband doesn't allow/approve), then we follow what the husband's desire is.

Husband wants to convert, but wife wouldn't allow: no problem.

Wife wants to convert, but husband won't allow: problem.

If wife really wants to join the church, but husband is adamant about it, the church (by policy I'm sure) would not recommend one to leave their husband JUST to join the church.

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PC - When I was in latin America, we were specifically prohibited from baptizing married women without the consent of their husbands. I always assumed it was a church-wide policy; though I suppose it could also be a response to the highly traditional (and male-oriented) family structure that prevails where I was serving.

Of course, one of our early apostles was murdered by the (arguably ex-)husband of a woman he taught and baptized (and - full disclosure - married); so maybe this is just a sensitive spot for us Mormons.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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I believe it's also the policy (correct me if I'm wrong) that a wife must get permission from her husband to take out her endowments in the temple as well.

I just remember this being brought up when I was married to a non member.

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Hi Everyone-

I am interested in joining the church. I have gone back and forth with it for a long time, and a good chunk of my family is LDS. However, I have been married for about 8 months now, and my husband has told me, flat out, that he will not love me if I am Mormon, or if I am even active in ANY church (When we were dating he never said anything like this.). I know divorce is wrong and I never wanted to be in this position (But who ever wants that for themselves?)and I wouldn't say, "I'm going to church now and we are over now," I would start going and see if he comes around. But I am 99% sure he wouldn't.

If anyone has any advice, I would sure appreciate it. Thank you.

lvlday, There are many people in the church who have lost family relationships (parents, spouses, children) because they chose to be baptized into the LDS church. This is a personal and difficult decision. The church does not advocate breaking up families, but we do advocate putting God first.

I'm more concerned that after only 8 months of marriage he says "he won't love you" if you join the church. That is a controlling and selfish statement. There are more issues that lying going on here. Control through threats and intimidation is not a sign of a healthy relationship.

Going into this thinking he will come around will probably lead to disappointment. You both need to talk openly and calmly and, if he's in counseling, maybe a mediated conversation with the counselor would be helpful.

Do you have children that will be affected by all this?

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I believe it's also the policy (correct me if I'm wrong) that a wife must get permission from her husband to take out her endowments in the temple as well.

if a wife desires baptism into the church, and the husband forbids it, then she is not baptized.

If there is a disagreement (wife wants to convert, but husband doesn't allow/approve), then we follow what the husband's desire is.

Husband wants to convert, but wife wouldn't allow: no problem.

Wife wants to convert, but husband won't allow: problem.

Am I the only one deeply disturbed by this?

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Am I the only one deeply disturbed by this?

I would like to see some sources on it personally. I can see it being the policy in countries where women are treated as second class citizens, and might get killed for disobedience. But not as a general policy.

I would have thought that the church would follow its basic policy of that the decision to to stay in a marriage or get divorced is between the person the Lord and their spouse. The church is there to only support what ever that choice is and to encourage the prayerful consideration of the options.

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I know of a new convert that had to get permission from her husband to get baptized. I think she also had to get his permission to get her endowments, that's when he didn't want her to come to church anymore and started encouraging her to read anti-mormon literature. She now attends a church that he goes to, but I think she still attends some activities at the LDS church. I can understand having to get permission from your spouse about going to the Temple since you will be wearing garments and he/she would have to accept that.

It is a little disturbing to hear the church doesn't hold the same permissions for the husband is the woman is a non member.

By the way, I live in Tennessee, so it's true for American couples.

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I would like to see some sources on it personally. I can see it being the policy in countries where women are treated as second class citizens, and might get killed for disobedience. But not as a general policy.

I would have thought that the church would follow its basic policy of that the decision to to stay in a marriage or get divorced is between the person the Lord and their spouse. The church is there to only support what ever that choice is and to encourage the prayerful consideration of the options.

This is directly from the CHI 2010 regarding endowments:

A worthy member who is married to an unendowed spouse, whether the spouse is a member or nonmember, may receive his or her own endowment when (1) the bishop receives written consent from the spouse and (2) the bishop and stake president are satisfied that the responsibility assumed with the endowment will not impair marital harmony.

Edited by pam
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