Watch and Tarry

[Seminarysnoozer]

In Mark 14:38-42 it says; "38Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

39And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words.

40And when he returned, he found them asleep again, (for their eyes were heavy,) neither wist they what to answer him.

41And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

42Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand."

Why did Jesus ask them to "watch" and "tarry" there so they wouldn't enter into temptation? I guess I am not following why that request was made. Is He simply asking them to stay awake to watch for Judas? Or is He asking them to stay awake to help Him in some way with what He was going through?

When all is done, Jesus know Judas is coming before he actually was there and so it wasn't really necessary to have a watchman so to speak, He knew when they were coming.

Was it that He wanted witnesses to the event? I guess I am not gathering what the value of having them not be "heavy" is at that moment. What could have Peter, James and John specifically added to the moment if they were awake and not "sore amazed"?

[Vort]

I have taken this as a time when the Lord wanted support from his closest earthly friends, and was asking for their help.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I have taken this as a time when the Lord wanted support from his closest earthly friends, and was asking for their help.

Thanks.

I understand that as the intent of the request, what I am trying to understand is what kind of support could they have offered by being awake? I am not following what they are doing while being awake. Obviously, whatever 'tarrying' He was asking for wasn't necessary because He got the job done without them. Was He asking them to do something that He knew they couldn't do and wasn't adding to the purpose of the event?

What I think you are saying is that He just wanted "moral support" knowing what He was going into. I guess I am not following how in that setting, where Jesus is doing all the work, what the difference would be between awake apostles versus asleep apostles, who in either way give their support to what is going on.

[applepansy]

Thanks.

I understand that as the intent of the request, what I am trying to understand is what kind of support could they have offered by being awake? I am not following what they are doing while being awake. Obviously, whatever 'tarrying' He was asking for wasn't necessary because He got the job done without them. Was He asking them to do something that He knew they couldn't do and wasn't adding to the purpose of the event?

What I think you are saying is that He just wanted "moral support" knowing what He was going into. I guess I am not following how in that setting, where Jesus is doing all the work, what the difference would be between awake apostles versus asleep apostles, who in either way give their support to what is going on.

Emotional support?

Someone who is asleep is not giving emotional, mental, or physical support. Its hard to show your love for someone if you're snoring.

[Guest]

Emotional support?

Someone who is asleep is not giving emotional, mental, or physical support. Its hard to show your love for someone if you're snoring.

Ask any woman whose husband slept through her labor. Not that he could do much to take away the pain or the work, but the support is important.

[RescueMom]

I would look at this way...when we go in for an operation, don't we want someone waiting for us, to hold our hands as long as possible? Don't we perfer someone we know instead of some stranger? I think that's what happened here...he knew he had to do it alone but didn't want to be alone. The need for someone to be there while we go through something tramatic is not a sin or a downfall, so I assume that even Christ wanted friends around.

But the sad thing is he didn't get that, I would suspect justice wouldn't allow him to not do it alone. He had to do this task utterly alone, that doesn't mean he didn't want friends around though.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Ask any woman whose husband slept through her labor. Not that he could do much to take away the pain or the work, but the support is important.

Thanks, I was going to offer that as an example as well but didn't want to compare what Jesus went through to labor. I see the comparison though. During my second, the labor went on so long my husband fell asleep and I didn't want to wake him until it was really needed. I just appreciated the fact that he was there.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I found an interesting suggestion by McConkie: "Perhaps the very reason Peter, James and John slept was to enable a divine providence to withhold from their ears, and seal up from their eyes, those things which only Gods can comprehend." Mortal Messiah vol 4.

From what everyone is saying, I think I will settle with the idea that it was only for support, not some other purpose ... as a witness, or to pray with him, or to watch for Judas etc.

I think I read somewhere too that "sleep" was really just exhaustion from trying to comprehend what was going on but they couldn't, so they "slept", or they were shut off from what was going on.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Emotional support?

Someone who is asleep is not giving emotional, mental, or physical support. Its hard to show your love for someone if you're snoring.

The dilemma in my mind is knowing that Jesus was the only one who could make that atonement and He knew that going into it. It seems more likely that Jesus was wanting them to stay awake for their benefit, not His as if He 'needed' something from them. To go back several times after they fell "asleep" (they may not have been asleep but exhausted from trying to believe and pray and 'tarry' with the idea of Christ being the messiah - so no snoring involved) and to say at the end, okay its done now you can sleep makes it seem like He was looking out for their interests, their benefit. I like how Elder Whitney describes it in his dream, that Jesus did not rebuke the apostles but gently tried to wake them up, as if He was concerned that they were going to miss something.

[LittleWyvern]

Luke adds this interesting tidbit about why Peter, James, and John fell asleep:

45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,

46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

Clearly the disciples were sleeping because of some severe mental, spiritual, or emotional stress. Given that sleep is often used as a euphemism for death in the scriptures, the word sleep could mean a lot of things other than literal sleep. So, in connection with the above comment, my dad often points out that the temptation that Christ was warning the disciples about was probably the idea that the disciples could prevent this death from happening. I like this viewpoint, especially when comparing to the many scriptures that Jesus Christ uses to convince his disciples (on multiple occasions) that he really did have to surrender and die so that his mission could be fulfilled. Peter even sliced an ear off one of those sent to capture Jesus: he was ready to die to save Jesus rather than to watch helplessly as he was taken, tortured, and crucified (which he later did with John during the scene when Peter denies Christ three times). I don't think the apostles really understood Christ's mission until after He was resurrected.

[applepansy]

The dilemma in my mind is knowing that Jesus was the only one who could make that atonement and He knew that going into it. It seems more likely that Jesus was wanting them to stay awake for their benefit, not His as if He 'needed' something from them. To go back several times after they fell "asleep" (they may not have been asleep but exhausted from trying to believe and pray and 'tarry' with the idea of Christ being the messiah - so no snoring involved) and to say at the end, okay its done now you can sleep makes it seem like He was looking out for their interests, their benefit. I like how Elder Whitney describes it in his dream, that Jesus did not rebuke the apostles but gently tried to wake them up, as if He was concerned that they were going to miss something.

I don't have the dilemma in my mind. I believe that there could be more than one reason Christ asked them to pray and tarry with him.

One reason is that Christ was human on his mother's side. And even though he knew what needed to be done the reality of it had to be daunting.

[mordorbund]

[warning: lots of speculation ahead]

Concerning what level of support the Apostles could give, I suppose there may have been some. As Jesus was praying an angel appeared and strengthened him. I don't know what that angel did to strengthen him, and I can't think of anything that I've read on it (just supposition on the identity of the angel, not the actions). Perhaps the Apostles could have strenthened him as he prayed. Perhaps Peter could have lifted Jesus as he fell on his face and whispered again "thou art the Christ - the Son of the living God!" Perhaps John could take a moment between the prayers and remind him of the disciples' love for him. Perhaps Jesus could have bee strengthened with a simple "thank you" from James.

Before reading this thread though, I had supposed that they were asked to watch as witnesses. The accounts we have today admit of the sleepiness of the eyewitnesses. So how did they know that Jesus was strengthened by an angel? How did they know that he sweat great gobs of blood? How do they know the words he prayed or how many times? I figured they didn't know. I think the significance was shown them after Jesus was resurrected. I figure he either told them about it in person or shared it with them via vision so they could know what happened.

But that's just my guess.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Luke adds this interesting tidbit about why Peter, James, and John fell asleep:

Clearly the disciples were sleeping because of some severe mental, spiritual, or emotional stress. Given that sleep is often used as a euphemism for death in the scriptures, the word sleep could mean a lot of things other than literal sleep. So, in connection with the above comment, my dad often points out that the temptation that Christ was warning the disciples about was probably the idea that the disciples could prevent this death from happening. I like this viewpoint, especially when comparing to the many scriptures that Jesus Christ uses to convince his disciples (on multiple occasions) that he really did have to surrender and die so that his mission could be fulfilled. Peter even sliced an ear off one of those sent to capture Jesus: he was ready to die to save Jesus rather than to watch helplessly as he was taken, tortured, and crucified (which he later did with John during the scene when Peter denies Christ three times). I don't think the apostles really understood Christ's mission until after He was resurrected.

Thank you. I think this is really good insight. This is probably also why Jesus went away from where they were praying. I appreciate your comments. There is more to this than just the "support" idea. But, in this sense, sleeping is supporting, because if they would have been awake they may have tried to interrupt the visibly painful process if they would have fully witnessed it.

Luke 22 is a little more clear about them 'sleeping for sorrow' and after Christ rose from praying (it was over) He still asked them why they were sleeping and to rise and tarry to not enter into temptation even though He was done praying. That would make sense if He was saying this so they wouldn't try to fight off the betrayer, like you mentioned. Thanks.

Edited July 9, 2011 by Seminarysnoozer