What was the extent of pre-mortal learning?

[Seminarysnoozer]

What did we learn as spirits in the pre-mortal life?

I know this question cannot be answered specifically because the veil has withheld our memory of those things but I would like to see where people stand with just a basic categorization of less, same or more than what we can learn here (secular learning only, obviously experiential knowledge is more here compared to premortal life).

I am curious to know if I am way off in left field to think that we as spirit children living with our Heavenly Parents for countless years learned all we could without having experiential knowledge. In other words, we learned a lot! A lot more than any mortal could learn or the combined secular learning of all mortals. And all of that learning will come back to us once the veil is released as well as any experiential knowledge we obtain.

So how much do you think we learned in the pre-mortal life? … consider the following statements.

President Boyd K. Packer, Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, addressed the significance of this doctrine: “There is no way to make sense out of life without a knowledge of the doctrine of premortal life. … When we understand the doctrine of premortal life, then things fit together and make sense.” 2

“Man was also in the beginning with God,” the Lord revealed. “Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be” (D&C 93:29). Thus, in the sense that our intelligence has always existed, we had no beginning. But at some distant point in our premortal past, spirit bodies were created for us, and we became, literally, spirit sons and daughters of heavenly parents.

And in Gospel Principles; “God is not only our Ruler and Creator; He is also our Heavenly Father. All men and women are literally the sons and daughters of God. “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 335).

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “It is true that Adam helped to form this earth. He labored with our Savior Jesus Christ. I have a strong view or conviction that there were also others who assisted them. Perhaps Noah and Enoch; and why not Joseph Smith, and those who were appointed to be rulers before the earth was formed? We know that Jesus our Savior was a Spirit when this great work was done. He did all of these mighty works before he tabernacled in the flesh” 13 (see also Abr. 3:23–24).

The scriptures tell us that it is impossible for man to be saved in ignorance (see D&C 131:6). This principle is greatly misunderstood. Elder John A. Widtsoe wrote:

“There are of course many kinds of knowledge; some of lesser, some of higher value. When Joseph Smith said that a man cannot be saved in ignorance, he meant naturally ignorance of the laws which all together lead to salvation. Such knowledge is of the highest value. It should be sought after first. Then other kinds of knowledge may be added to support and amplify the more direct knowledge of spiritual law. For example, it is a duty of the Church to preach the gospel to all the world. This however requires the aid of railroads, steamships, printing presses, and a multitude of other things that make up our civilization. A knowledge of the gospel is the missionary’s first need, but the other needs, though lesser, help him perform better the divine injunction to teach the gospel to all people” (Evidences and Reconciliations, arr. G. Homer Durham [1987], 224).

Knowing that we were “reared to maturity” and some enough to assist in forming the earth, how much do you think we learned before coming here in terms of secular knowledge (as opposed to experiential knowledge)?

- Less than what we can learn here? In other words, almost all secular learning is new to us.

- About what we can learn here? In other words, our pre-mortal secular learning doesn’t surpass what man is capable of learning.

- Or, way more than what we can learn here? (Again, just talking about secular knowledge, the facts, the things that can be memorized, like the Krebs’s cycle and organic chemistry, the names of the planets, what is inside a black hole, calculus etc.)

[hungrytrash]

The third option. But who knows how long we were spirits. It could have been thousands, millions, or billions of years. And some spirits are older than others.

I'm certain we had an incredibly powerful understanding of what the universe really is. We understood the priesthood. We understood elementary particles and how they work together. We understood what intelligence was and why it can be self-aware while other matters can't. We understood space and time, gravity and electromagnetism, strong and weak force. Any laws that govern the universe as a whole, we understood firmly. Understanding those laws firmly, in the context of learning as a spirit, not a mortal, would mean understanding everything that modern science teaches. Except better. Our mortal brains are intentionally limited. Spirits have perfect and unlimited memory.

Any science is a derivation of knowledge of the universe and its fundamental laws. So I don't believe there is a single thing scientifically that we will learn in mortality that we didn't already know. With our premortal knowledge, we could make the greatest scientists in history look blind in their understanding.

Which is why I can't wait to combine my experiences in mortality (both here and the resultant journey in the Spirit World) with the incredible and vast knowledge gained from the premortal world. In that moment of resurrection, so much growth in every aspect of our being will be attained. With the resurrection, our memories will return. We will lose the natural man, we will lose all subjection to the devil, we will lose all normal types of opposition. With knowledge of who we were before, everything about us will improve. If we were good spirits before our resurrection, how much more good after receiving our memories again? If we were obedient before, how much more obedient after? The truth is, the moment we become perfect is our resurrection. We can still grow in knowledge and glory, but we will be completely free of sin. Completely clean, forever.

The only people who are resurrected without being perfect are sons of perdition. Even heirs to the Telestial kingdom will be completely clean and will never sin again. They will be following a lesser law than those of the Terrestrial and Celestial, but the law that governs their kingdom, they will never disobey, because they are perfect within that law.

The resurrection is the most important saving ordinance there is.

[Seminarysnoozer]

The third option. But who knows how long we were spirits. It could have been thousands, millions, or billions of years. And some spirits are older than others.

I'm certain we had an incredibly powerful understanding of what the universe really is. We understood the priesthood. We understood elementary particles and how they work together. We understood what intelligence was and why it can be self-aware while other matters can't. We understood space and time, gravity and electromagnetism, strong and weak force. Any laws that govern the universe as a whole, we understood firmly. Understanding those laws firmly, in the context of learning as a spirit, not a mortal, would mean understanding everything that modern science teaches. Except better. Our mortal brains are intentionally limited. Spirits have perfect and unlimited memory.

Any science is a derivation of knowledge of the universe and its fundamental laws. So I don't believe there is a single thing scientifically that we will learn in mortality that we didn't already know. With our premortal knowledge, we could make the greatest scientists in history look blind in their understanding.

Which is why I can't wait to combine my experiences in mortality (both here and the resultant journey in the Spirit World) with the incredible and vast knowledge gained from the premortal world. In that moment of resurrection, so much growth in every aspect of our being will be attained. With the resurrection, our memories will return. We will lose the natural man, we will lose all subjection to the devil, we will lose all normal types of opposition. With knowledge of who we were before, everything about us will improve. If we were good spirits before our resurrection, how much more good after receiving our memories again? If we were obedient before, how much more obedient after? The truth is, the moment we become perfect is our resurrection. We can still grow in knowledge and glory, but we will be completely free of sin. Completely clean, forever.

The only people who are resurrected without being perfect are sons of perdition. Even heirs to the Telestial kingdom will be completely clean and will never sin again. They will be following a lesser law than those of the Terrestrial and Celestial, but the law that governs their kingdom, they will never disobey, because they are perfect within that law.

The resurrection is the most important saving ordinance there is.

Thank you. Glad to see I am on the "same page" as someone, I was beginning to think this was just a non-issue for everyone. I think it helps underline the reason for this life when we realize that we did a lot of secular learning before this life, that secular learning and development is not the goal of this life, it is first to learn spiritual matters and gain that experiential knowledge.

I think this also helps with the concept that it is 'okay' to live in faith, we don't have to comprehend everything in this life except the laws of the gospel. And the idea of when we hear about the 'truth' in this life, it is really just remembering things we have already learned, that is how the spirit can give a confirmatory feeling. Recognizing truth or 'the light of Christ' is, in part, is from the fact that it rang true to us before. Even atheists have that, they just deny it. Over time that knowledge can be obscured, like the metaphors of obscuring the right eye.

Even if one considers that fact that their spirit (in the form of a spirit child) has been around at least since Adam and Eve were here, that is a lot of time to learn and grow in the presence of Heavenly Father. It would have to be even longer than that since we all were involved in the 'keeping of our first estate' prior to Adam and Eve coming here.

Thanks.

[RipplecutBuddha]

I think we can examine our condition here, and use it as a possible mirror to what conditions were like before we arrived.

For example, we know about our parents at the very least, and hopefully we know our parents and have been taught by them from the moment our life began on this earth. We have to learn everything from communicating to how to move and control ourselves. We have to learn about social issues such as how to be polite, how to share, and how to help others. As we learn our intelligence and glory grow with us until we reach a point that requires us to move to the next phase. While few people have been translated, it has happened. What is important to know is that we can reach such a point...each of us.

The realities of what life would be like on earth probably weren't fully known to us, but we knew it would be hard. We knew we would not be able to be with Heavenly Father, nor even regularly hear his voice. We possibly knew about the veil, and that we would essentially be starting over once we were born. What we did know for sure was that we had to come here in order to continue our process of becoming as our Heavenly Father is. Perhaps the moment of leaving Heaven to come here caused us anxiety, as death causes anxiety in many people here.

What our knowledge of pre-mortal life helps us to understand is that we exercised our faith in God to take a tremendous step. This is something we need to prepare to do again. We need to exercise our faith in God to take the steps necessary to return to him. They are not easy, and most often anymore they are not popular either. However we have the assurance from God as we exercise our faith in Him every day that as we do so, our trust will be rewarded with guidance and strength to continue on.

Most all of us believe in our Savior, but how many believe what he has told us? This, I think, is a key element to building stronger personal faith.

Edited July 16, 2011 by RipplecutBuddha

[Guest Sachi001]

IMO in our first estate we watched the history of the world unfold, and all it's experiences in all situations. However like being in a classroom where the teacher explains the problem and how to solve. Once in our second estate it becomes apparent that nothing equates toward hands on experience.

[KrazyKay]

In addition to what Sachi said - which I agree with, I also think we were shown details of our own individual lives with all it's trials/challenges and our choices (good and bad). But I think it was like watching a movie - were we saw our individual lives, but we did not understand any of the feelings - emotional and physical. But that we all still wanted to come here and that we were very very excited about receiving a body and becoming like our Heavenly Father.

[Seminarysnoozer]

In addition to what Sachi said - which I agree with, I also think we were shown details of our own individual lives with all it's trials/challenges and our choices (good and bad). But I think it was like watching a movie - were we saw our individual lives, but we did not understand any of the feelings - emotional and physical. But that we all still wanted to come here and that we were very very excited about receiving a body and becoming like our Heavenly Father.

Thanks, I am curious why you think we didn't understand "any of the feelings"? I think we understood most of the positive feelings, maybe not to their fullest but at least understood things like love, compassion, honor, service, sense of family, sense of achievement, being valiant, etc. You even say that we were "very very excited" so I am sure you didn't mean "any of the feelings". I would even think that feelings were more intense, or at least more pure and constant, not flip flopping, like they are here.

[Traveler]

It is my personal view that we learned a great deal in the pre-existence. In that first estate we all mastered all knowledgeable possible.

But it is also my impression that we programmed and outlined our mortal lives - some with more and some with less input from our mentor and Father in Heaven. I believe that we designed, planned and in the end are responsible for challenges we would face and so we planned out our lives much like a software engineer creates and writes a software program. This life is the testing phases where we check out and test our plans before making the final modification for eternity - which will not be completed until we spend some time analyzing and making final changes and “adjustments” in the “spirit world”. I believe at the final judgment we will present our plan to a loving G-d for his final advice and stamp of approval.

The Traveler

[KrazyKay]

Thanks, I am curious why you think we didn't understand "any of the feelings"? I think we understood most of the positive feelings, maybe not to their fullest but at least understood things like love, compassion, honor, service, sense of family, sense of achievement, being valiant, etc. You even say that we were "very very excited" so I am sure you didn't mean "any of the feelings". I would even think that feelings were more intense, or at least more pure and constant, not flip flopping, like they are here.

I was referring to the physical feelings, like what it felt like to break a bone, stub a toe, run into a wall (which I do often, lol), etc. I'm sure we understood emotions such as love, honor, sense of family, etc.

[Guest Sachi001]

I don't believe in preset destination as far as outlining lives. I just believe that some of us watch how the world lives, and we live our lives accordingly. What we learn here is what we did not experience before and how to deal with such. IMO spirits that are created for intelligence are with different talents thus different empathies toward certain pre-disposed emotions. Some lack patience in the first estate. Therefore come to the second to learn or at recognize and improve such emotional perspective. Others may be learning to sacrifice. Others may be learning to be at peace with their fellow men no matter how ruthless they may be such as war.

You can always say I know how the other person feels, but have never experienced such. Thus the second estate learning experience to really feel it and how you react. This to me is a main part of the PoS.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I don't believe in preset destination as far as outlining lives. I just believe that some of us watch how the world lives, and we live our lives accordingly. What we learn here is what we did not experience before and how to deal with such. IMO spirits that are created for intelligence are with different talents thus different empathies toward certain pre-disposed emotions. Some lack patience in the first estate. Therefore come to the second to learn or at recognize and improve such emotional perspective. Others may be learning to sacrifice. Others may be learning to be at peace with their fellow men no matter how ruthless they may be such as war.

You can always say I know how the other person feels, but have never experienced such. Thus the second estate learning experience to really feel it and how you react. This to me is a main part of the PoS.

I agree, for the most part with everything you've said here. Except, I don't know if experiencing something for oneself is any more valuable than having enough love and empathy to comprehend the experience without ever going through it. I've wondered how Heavenly Father or Jesus for that matter really knows what it is like to go through mortal pregnancy and delivery. Even with all that was done in the Garden of Gesthemane they haven't "experienced" it and yet I believe they know what it feels like as if they have. I think we all will have the opportunity or ability some day to gain the experiences that we 'need' without necessarily having to live through them. I agree though that there are some experiences in this life that we individually need for one reason or another, either part of the test or something we need to refine.

[SteveD]

When Lorenzo Snow was investigating the Church he had a discussion with Joseph Smith Sr -- the Patriarch -- about our pre-mortal eminence.

The Patriarch told Lorenzo (paraphrased) "If you were to go to the largest city in the world and to the lowliest/dirtiest part of that city and if you were to come across a drunk, bloodied and dirty, lying in his own filth in the gutter -- if you have the spiritual eyes to see that man's pre-mortal eminence you would fall down and worship him as if he were a god."

I came across this quote in my seminary teacher's manual (Church History/Doctrine & Covenants) in the early 1990's. I remember it so well (it made a strong impression) but I have never been able to find the exact quote since then.

Does anyone have the source. It would be greatly appreciated because I would like to include it in a paper I'm writing.

[Dravin]

Sounds like this C.S. Lewis quote:

It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship. C. S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory (William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1949), P14-15

[Seminarysnoozer]

When Lorenzo Snow was investigating the Church he had a discussion with Joseph Smith Sr -- the Patriarch -- about our pre-mortal eminence.

The Patriarch told Lorenzo (paraphrased) "If you were to go to the largest city in the world and to the lowliest/dirtiest part of that city and if you were to come across a drunk, bloodied and dirty, lying in his own filth in the gutter -- if you have the spiritual eyes to see that man's pre-mortal eminence you would fall down and worship him as if he were a god."

I came across this quote in my seminary teacher's manual (Church History/Doctrine & Covenants) in the early 1990's. I remember it so well (it made a strong impression) but I have never been able to find the exact quote since then.

Does anyone have the source. It would be greatly appreciated because I would like to include it in a paper I'm writing.

This is a good quote, sorry I am no help with the source. But, this, I think, reinforces the idea that we are not here to learn facts or secular learning but to gain certain, specific experiences and to pass a test.

We don't have to "discover" the truth, just recognize it as something we already knew and believed previously.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I don't believe in preset destination as far as outlining lives. I just believe that some of us watch how the world lives, and we live our lives accordingly. What we learn here is what we did not experience before and how to deal with such. IMO spirits that are created for intelligence are with different talents thus different empathies toward certain pre-disposed emotions. Some lack patience in the first estate. Therefore come to the second to learn or at recognize and improve such emotional perspective. Others may be learning to sacrifice. Others may be learning to be at peace with their fellow men no matter how ruthless they may be such as war.

You can always say I know how the other person feels, but have never experienced such. Thus the second estate learning experience to really feel it and how you react. This to me is a main part of the PoS.

Exactly, I don't think it has to be that pre-set. I liken it to recruiting players to a professional team. So long as the recruiter can see the player in various scenarios, then the recruiter can gather enough information to know whether the player would be good for the team or not. For this reason, I think there are several potential "soul mates" in this world for each of us and there are probably several different pathways that we could have chosen for ourselves all of which could be enough to let our Heavenly Father judge our actions properly.

[Bensalem]

What did we learn as spirits in the pre-mortal life?

I know this question cannot be answered specifically because the veil has withheld our memory of those things but I would like to see where people stand with just a basic categorization of less, same or more than what we can learn here (secular learning only, obviously experiential knowledge is more here compared to premortal life).

I am curious to know if I am way off in left field to think that we as spirit children living with our Heavenly Parents for countless years learned all we could without having experiential knowledge. In other words, we learned a lot! A lot more than any mortal could learn or the combined secular learning of all mortals. And all of that learning will come back to us once the veil is released as well as any experiential knowledge we obtain.

So how much do you think we learned in the pre-mortal life? … consider the following statements.

President Boyd K. Packer, Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, addressed the significance of this doctrine: “There is no way to make sense out of life without a knowledge of the doctrine of premortal life. … When we understand the doctrine of premortal life, then things fit together and make sense.” 2

“Man was also in the beginning with God,” the Lord revealed. “Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be” (D&C 93:29). Thus, in the sense that our intelligence has always existed, we had no beginning. But at some distant point in our premortal past, spirit bodies were created for us, and we became, literally, spirit sons and daughters of heavenly parents.

And in Gospel Principles; “God is not only our Ruler and Creator; He is also our Heavenly Father. All men and women are literally the sons and daughters of God. “Man, as a spirit, was begotten and born of heavenly parents, and reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth in a temporal [physical] body” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 335).

President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “It is true that Adam helped to form this earth. He labored with our Savior Jesus Christ. I have a strong view or conviction that there were also others who assisted them. Perhaps Noah and Enoch; and why not Joseph Smith, and those who were appointed to be rulers before the earth was formed? We know that Jesus our Savior was a Spirit when this great work was done. He did all of these mighty works before he tabernacled in the flesh” 13 (see also Abr. 3:23–24).

The scriptures tell us that it is impossible for man to be saved in ignorance (see D&C 131:6). This principle is greatly misunderstood. Elder John A. Widtsoe wrote:

“There are of course many kinds of knowledge; some of lesser, some of higher value. When Joseph Smith said that a man cannot be saved in ignorance, he meant naturally ignorance of the laws which all together lead to salvation. Such knowledge is of the highest value. It should be sought after first. Then other kinds of knowledge may be added to support and amplify the more direct knowledge of spiritual law. For example, it is a duty of the Church to preach the gospel to all the world. This however requires the aid of railroads, steamships, printing presses, and a multitude of other things that make up our civilization. A knowledge of the gospel is the missionary’s first need, but the other needs, though lesser, help him perform better the divine injunction to teach the gospel to all people” (Evidences and Reconciliations, arr. G. Homer Durham [1987], 224).

Knowing that we were “reared to maturity” and some enough to assist in forming the earth, how much do you think we learned before coming here in terms of secular knowledge (as opposed to experiential knowledge)?

- Less than what we can learn here? In other words, almost all secular learning is new to us.

- About what we can learn here? In other words, our pre-mortal secular learning doesn’t surpass what man is capable of learning.

- Or, way more than what we can learn here? (Again, just talking about secular knowledge, the facts, the things that can be memorized, like the Krebs’s cycle and organic chemistry, the names of the planets, what is inside a black hole, calculus etc.)

Since we came into this world ignorant of our past with no memory of God, I would say that we knew more before coming into this world than we do as human beings. As wonderful as the mind can be, it has limitations and boundaries to learning.

I believe we all witnessed the creation from premortality, at least to the sixth day. Even all our history is witnessed by the angles, both the good and the evil ones. I believe we had a sure understanding of the true nature of God, which is more difficult to attain here on earth.

In His presence we did not struggle with doubt, only with our own conviction, hence, the requirement to try our faith in a mortal world separate from God. Here we must demonstrate faith without sure knowledge.

What we lacked in premortality was the experience provided by a physically independent life, in which we are granted a spiritually free will. Mortality is the harder test with the greater reward.

All that we need to know about God is available in the written Word. Limitations of the human mind can be overcome by faith. When all doubt is again absent, the veil between us can be lowered and through the Holy Ghost a sure knowledge of God is attained.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Bensalem

[Seminarysnoozer]

As wonderful as the mind can be, it has limitations and boundaries to learning.

Yes. Consider this too, our memory or our "experience" if one wants to call it that is, in part, fabricated. Human memory is made up of scripts that fill in the blanks of aspects that are not remembered. This has been shown over and over again. Our memory is not a video tape of events as if we are reliving a specific scene in our lives. Our memory is quite poor as far as details go, we tend to remember the gist of things, how we felt or the overall theme of events. We also remember things that have emotional significance. If there is little to no emotional ranking for any particular event then we are highly unlikely to remember it. This is why nowadays when you go to a parking lot there is a green monkey or a yellow cat etc. to represent the floor and the area as opposed to a number.

This is why Jesus taught in parables, this is how the human mind works, it is not good at recalling contextual information as it is the general meaning of something. For example, if an eyewitness to a crime saw a silver car speed away from the crime scene, the brain could easily fabricate that the car was actually grey and not silver because the 'script' for that color is filed in the same location and not that important for the brain to separate. The mind starts to believe the car was grey and it becomes reality for the person that it was grey and not silver as the brain fills in the details of things that may not have been noticed.

This makes me wonder, when we review our "experience" in this life, will we review what we actually experienced or view it in the third person so to speak, which would be more accurate and truthful.

Another example of this is when people are told they are allergic to something, like eggs for example, when they are young, the brain starts to fabricate the idea that eggs don't taste good and 'I don't like eggs'. This is just an example, but there are many things in this life that people equate to their likes and dislikes that somehow they think they will take with them to the next life. 'I like mexican food' or 'I like soccer but I don't like footbal' or 'I like redheads' etc. How much of that is the brain fabricating these likes and dislikes? How much of that really represents the individuals spiritual traits that will be realized outside the false learning the brain does to our experience?

With those ideas in mind, I think the "experience" we are after is to appreciate where we are in terms of our loyalty even in the face of these distractions. Do we make the distractions us and call it who we really are? Or do we recognize our spiritual self and make up despite these carnal distractions? Then, when all is revealed, what is really truth, such as broccoli really doesn't taste that bad (for example) or I really can't sing even though I thought I could, etc., we will see how much we were influenced by carnal things and appreciate where we stand in terms of our spiritual influence.

[Guest]

We all knew enough to make the choice to come here, at least. I just thought of something, though. Does Heavenly Father have eternal increase? In other words, are spirits still being begotten of Him? That's something I never thought about until now. I always assumed we were all there during the great counsel and fought in that war and made the choice then between coming here and following Satan. Could it be that that is still happening? I wonder. . .

But I do believe we're all of different spiritual ages. Some spirits came to the earth younger than others, just as some leave this world earlier than others.

[mikbone]

We all knew enough to make the choice to come here, at least. I just thought of something, though. Does Heavenly Father have eternal increase? In other words, are spirits still being begotten of Him? That's something I never thought about until now. I always assumed we were all there during the great counsel and fought in that war and made the choice then between coming here and following Satan. Could it be that that is still happening? I wonder. . .

I've thought about it too. I wouldn't be suprised if there were multiple other locations where other groups of His spiritual children are progressing through their own pre-mortal existence...

If so, does each one of those groups have their own war in heaven and "only begotton son" that applies to them or does Jehovah provide the atonement for all?

[Guest]

I believe that Jesus Christ is Alpha and Omega, the Savior of ALL mankind, not just of this world. How that translates to other worlds, I don't know. I'm sure that if there are other worlds, that one way or another they learn of Him.

[Bensalem]

Consider this too, our memory or our "experience" if one wants to call it that is, in part, fabricated.

I saw a frightening program on the short comings of eyewitness testimonies that led to guilty verdicts of the wrong suspect. Once the mind picked a person it was almost impossible to reteach it. The mind became biased.

Some say that the mind stores everything and it is only a matter of re-triggering the proper synapses in order to recall an event. But others have proved that even these memory paths can become corrupted.

I think I remember a scripture that says, once we are in heaven we will not look back at this world with any sense of longing. Maybe our memories (beyond our salvation in Christ) will not be of any value in the afterlife.

[Bensalem]

Does Heavenly Father have eternal increase?

Sure, His family keeps growing.

[Guest]

I thought of that, too. It's interesting and funny to me to think of Heavenly Father and Mother deciding that they're done having children. :)

I just asked my husband this question:

In other words, are spirits still being begotten of Him?

His exact response was an emphatic, "I don't care!" (Fringe doctrine bugs him. He'd rather spend his time on more useful studies.)

[Bensalem]

I wouldn't be suprised if there were multiple other locations where other groups of His spiritual children are progressing through their own pre-mortal existence...

If so, does each one of those groups have their own war in heaven and "only begotton son" that applies to them or does Jehovah provide the atonement for all?

I believe the Atonement, which happened here in Jesus, was for us and is limited to those who have lived on earth. His work was our personal salvation.

As we look into the universe and discover more and more planets and see new solar systems forming in gaseous factories, it is clear that Joseph Smith's prophecies of eternal increase through the population of other worlds is true. As exalted pairs we will called to participate in the creation of spirit children who will colonize these new worlds. Everything that happened here will be repeated in the Word of God there. Since these worlds are in various stages of development, it makes sense that each would need an Adam, a Noah, an Enoch, a Melchizedek, an Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and so on and so on, even an only begotten Son of God to perform the Atonement for the spirits of that world.

I don't see how Christ's Atonement could apply to a world not yet created or a world that has yet to be flooded or one that has yet organized a nation called Israel.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Bensalem

[Seminarysnoozer]

I thought of that, too. It's interesting and funny to me to think of Heavenly Father and Mother deciding that they're done having children. :)

I just asked my husband this question:

His exact response was an emphatic, "I don't care!" (Fringe doctrine bugs him. He'd rather spend his time on more useful studies.)

I think, the thing that makes eternal joy eternal is the concept that it is based in the success of others. If we only increase based in our own success then it is finite, thus, Lucifer cuts off his potential for increase because he wants it all for himself and by himself.

If one of the key characteristics of Celestial beings is to love another person as much as self then all the successes and progress of that individual is felt as if one's own. I think this would make it possible for our Heavenly Parents to stop having spiritual children but continue to have increase and Eternal joy via the work of all those they are sealed to eternally. Even though, my suspicion is that they still are doing what they have been doing for some time.