Need your comments! Faith is slipping!

[HiJolly]

girlygirl, I read this excellent article this morning & thought of you. Hope you enjoy it.

Perception of the past is more important that the past itself | Deseret News

HiJolly

[Backroads]

. However it is hard to be affiliated with an organization that has different levels of priesthood which governs you, sometimes incorrectly, and you are just supposed to let them judge you incorrectly and keep coming to church with a smile on your face like everything is okay? To me that is not okay.

They key word here is sometimes. You may have had bad luck with these people, but it does not mean that suddenly all levels of the priesthood are bad judges.

[shine7]

"Are you gonna keep moaning about the unfair lot you have been dealt with, or are you going to learn what the master taught via the atonement? Forgiveness and rising toward exaltation."

I don't believe this is moaning......she is looking for help to handle her pain and hurt. Though no one should be mistreated, it does happen and it is a painful process to get to the forgiveness needed. What would the Savior do? What does He do? He listens, he feels our pain with us, He helps us climb the impossible mountain to forgive and move on. He is kind and empathetic more than anyone can be......HE carries our griefs and agonies.

[JudoMinja]

What I gather from everyones comments is that I need to put my faith in doctrine not other peoples testimony which is true, I do get alot of my strength from other people when I really need to secure myself better. However it is hard to be affiliated with an organization that has different levels of priesthood which governs you, sometimes incorrectly, and you are just supposed to let them judge you incorrectly and keep coming to church with a smile on your face like everything is okay? To me that is not okay.

Just based on what you've described, I would say yes. You just need to "suck it up". The bishop that "judged" you incorrectly already made the best restitution he could and tried to set things aright, unless there is more to it you haven't shared... And also, from what you've posted, your current bishop hasn't done anything wrong, you are just assuming that you will have a bad experience with him based on your past experience with two previous bishops.

Here's something that might help you out- if ANYONE does anything that you think is wrong or a misuse of their position in the church, the correct procedure is to report it to whoever is above them. In the case of a bishop that would be the stake president. How it gets handled after you've reported it isn't up to you, and once you've done your part it's time to let it go and move on. Since you are not having any CURRENT problems with anyone, unless you think going back and reporting something about your past bishops would be constructive in avoiding future problems, it is time for you to move on.

I had a bad experience with a Young Womens leader once. It was one of the first steps in building doubts that I let fester inside me instead of addressing them. It led to me eventually becoming inactive and temporarily falling away from the church. This is something that happens to MANY people. Once I hit rock bottom though, I realized how much happier I was when I was active in church. I started addressing my doubts and concerns instead of hiding behind them.

Now, I'm in the same ward as that Young Womens leader again. I don't really like her, but I don't have to. There's no point in me reporting the problem I had all those years ago as it would serve no purpose, so I just had to let it go. That problem is in my past and it is a problem with HER, not the church as a whole. I had to make the separation. When I'm at church, I just don't really interact with her socially and thats that. I'm not there for HER- I'm there for ME, for MY faith.

There will always be people we don't get along with in any situation. I'm sure you will find problems like this in any other religion. It's because religions are made up of PEOPLE and people are not perfect. So what do you do about it? You either avoid it altogether or do something about it. Try to make it better. How do you do that? Report things that need reporting, and work to make yourself and your surroundings better. Work to BE the change you want to see. Let go of the things you can't control and actively do something about the things you can control.

If you don't want to be associated with an organization that has people in it who unfairly judge others then you aren't going to be a part of ANY organization. Every single organization I know of has people like that in it. It is something we have to learn to just overlook- grow a thicker skin- or else we will end up avoiding people altogether. Trying to make sure WE are not judging others unfairly or causing others to feel mistreated can help in growing that thick skin, as can trying to put ourselves in the shoes of the person who "offended" us. For the most part, I don't think people actively seek to cause others offense. It happens through misunderstanding and the actions of people with the best of intentions. When you can understand why the offender acted as they did and their true intentions, it may not take away the sting of the offense, but it will help you see them as they truly are- another flawed human being trying to do their best, just like you.

[Carl62]

You seem to think everyone in the church needs to be perfect including Bishops, and more than likely you probably think the President of the church himself should be also. However no one is, and they will make even huge mistakes.

The problem with this whole thing is that when we have a problem or we've commited certain sins, we're always told "go to your bishop" and thus whatever judgement is made by the bishop, then we are to accept what they say without any question because we are told that they are always inspired in their council. But what if there's a moment where they give you advice or council contrary to what you feel, or you know is just plain wrong? I remember hearing countless times that we are to obey our leaders even if they are wrong because then we will be blessed for our obedience. Are we to just follow what they say blindly without any thoughts on our own? This sounds kinda Jim Jones-ish to me.

[Backroads]

The problem with this whole thing is that when we have a problem or we've commited certain sins, we're always told "go to your bishop" and thus whatever judgement is made by the bishop, then we are to accept what they say without any question because we are told that they are always inspired in their council. But what if there's a moment where they give you advice or council contrary to what you feel, or you know is just plain wrong? I remember hearing countless times that we are to obey our leaders even if they are wrong because then we will be blessed for our obedience. Are we to just follow what they say blindly without any thoughts on our own? This sounds kinda Jim Jones-ish to me.

Are we prevented in all cases from discussing our contradicting feelings with the bishop or the stake president (if we do validly feel what the bishop did is wrong)?

I do believe we will be blessed for our obedience. I also believe we will be blessed for listening to the Spirit. Without simplifying these things, I believe there is a happy medium in there.

[shine7]

My sister, many years ago did a very healthy thing: her bishop was deeply unkind to her in a sensitive situation, and she needed a lot of spiritual help.....so she found a bishop that understood her, and moved into his ward......he was able to help her through some huge difficulties; she was able to remain active.

For me: when a former bishop yelled at me out of the blue about my inactive son, screaming: 'what do you want me to do about it? come visit him?' it hurt me so much, it was almost impossible to forgive him. Finally when that bishop was released, I followed the spirit's promptings and went to our stake president, told him the situation......he said: 'first of all, sister, may I apologize for the priesthood; you were mistreated.' My greatest regret is: when the bishop yelled at me, why didn't I get up and with dignity, walk out of his office?? NO, I sat there a let him yell at me.....trained from my past to bow to anyone in authority, even when obviously being mistreated.

Edited July 20, 2011 by shine7

[Backroads]

My sister, many years ago did a very healthy thing: her bishop was deeply unkind to her in a sensitive situation, and she needed a lot of spiritual help.....so she found a bishop that understood her, and moved into his ward......he was able to help her through some huge difficulties; she was able to remain active.

For me: when a former bishop yelled at me out of the blue about my inactive son, screaming: 'what do you want me to do about it? come visit him?' it hurt me so much, it was almost impossible to forgive him. Finally when that bishop was released, I followed the spirit's promptings and went to our stake president, told him the situation......he said: 'first of all, sister, may I apologize for the priesthood; you were mistreated.' My greatest regret is: when the bishop yelled at me, why didn't I get up and with dignity, walk out of his office?? NO, I sat there a let him yell at me.....trained from my past to bow to anyone in authority, even when obviously being mistreated.

This is a perfect example, thank-you, shine. No, you're not meant to "just take it" if it really is a bad situation for you. There are options if you believe there is a valid problem. But it's spiritual poison to seethe about it while not doing anything about it.

Several people have pointed out that we have been taught to obey our leaders. But we can't simplify that instruction. When there is unrighteous dominion, we can protect ourselves.

[skippy740]

girlygirl,

Here's a couple of phrases you may want to keep in mind for your membership in the church:

- Bishops offend 20% of the ward every year. This is why they are called every 5 years. (Said "tongue in cheek")

- To live with saints in heaven is full of bliss and glory. To live with saints on earth is quite a different story. - Brigham Young

Just like in a discussion thread, Bishops only have to go on what they are told.

The problem you are facing now, is that you feel manipulated and now jaded towards the gospel. You are feeling that your husband's feelings were manipulated by missionaries and that everyone seems 'brainwashed'. You are losing your testimony in the structure of the church, as well as the calling of leaders.

The Bishop's role is to help guide for the absolution & repentance of sins and to help mobilize the ward's resources towards the mission of the church - proclaim the gospel, perfect the saints (more on this later), redeem the dead and the temporal welfare of its members.

"Perfect the Saints" is through teaching correct principles and to let the members govern themselves. The problem I see is that some members treat the Bishop like the "school principal" - tattling on other members and reporting stupid behavior and asking the Bishop to handle it. This is not the calling and role of the Bishop.

In feeling like we are weighed down by guilt, we are often reminded of how imperfect we are. That we need to always "do more". We don't do enough missionary work, family history, visiting the sick, being the perfect mother/father, having a year's food supply, support cub scouts/boy scouts, pay tithing, (and we can go on and on and on).

A lot of this feeling comes from a mis-understanding of an infamous scripture.

Take a look at 2 Nephi 25:23 in your scriptures. (It's on page 99-100)

23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

Now, how can this be mis-interpreted? Take a look at the page break. It breaks off the verse and practically splits it in two. "We know that it is by grace we are saved after all we can do." is on page 100. We as a people, tend to focus so much on this principle, that we often forget the 1st part of the verse. Faith comes first.

Then, in the 2nd part of the verse, we get the ideas of what "after all we can do" looks like. Then the "checklist" begins. And we feel that we are being judged by the "checklist".

Now take a look at Alma 24 verses 10-15:

10 And I also thank my God, yea, my great God, that he hath granted unto us that we might repent of these things, and also that he hath forgiven us of those our many sins and murders which we have committed, and taken away the guilt from our hearts, through the merits of his Son.

11 And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do (as we were the most lost of all mankind) to repent of all our sins and the many murders which we have committed, and to get God to take them away from our hearts, for it was all we could do to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain—

12 Now, my best beloved brethren, since God hath taken away our stains, and our swords have become bright, then let us stain our swords no more with the blood of our brethren.

13 Behold, I say unto you, Nay, let us retain our swords that they be not stained with the blood of our brethren; for perhaps, if we should stain our swords again they can no more be washed bright through the blood of the Son of our great God, which shall be shed for the atonement of our sins.

14 And the great God has had mercy on us, and made these things known unto us that we might not perish; yea, and he has made these things known unto us beforehand, because he loveth our souls as well as he loveth our children; therefore, in his mercy he doth visit us by his angels, that the plan of salvation might be made known unto us as well as unto future generations.

15 Oh, how merciful is our God! And now behold, since it has been as much as we

could do to get our stains taken away from us, and our swords are made bright, let us hide them away that they may be kept bright, as a testimony to our God at the last day, or at the day that we shall be brought to stand before him to be judged, that we have not stained our swords in the blood of our brethren since he imparted his word unto us and has made us clean thereby.

Guilt is not a feeling or a fruit of the gospel. Regret and remorse are part of repentance. Guilt is a tool of the Adversary.

I hope this helps you some.

[Guest Sachi001]

Sashi- it sounds like you have never come into a road bump with church authority, but when you do, it really disrupts your faith. I don't think you understand that it is very hard to turn the other cheek when a major part of your life is being trampled on by someone you need to respect and look up to. Because this has happened to me twice now, yes the experiences have poisoned me, perhaps it is pride, but it is hard to feel like a doormat when people above you do not judge you correctly, assume wrong things, and cause alot of emotional pain. Are you just supposed to 'go with the flow' and suck it up? I see what everyone is saying that everyone is human. But it is hard to be 'ruled' in away by someone who does not judge you correctly and puts you through alot of unnecessary hurt. Church should not make you feel like that!

Oh quite contraire bon ami! 2nd year after joining this ward in Hawaii. I have dealt with quite a bit of racist attitudes by certain Polynesian members who served as Bishop and another as Stake President toward the color of my skin and resentment among a couple of other Polynesians for other reasons. Many times I want to rip into such. However Patience and learning to forgive helped me come to terms with many. Fact is some who thought of me as another freaking haole learned how wrong they were about me. Many are now my beloved friends even though a couple do not yet quite get that we are all brothers and sisters of the same heavenly parents.

Like I said it's quite apparent by this response that the resentment and anger is still there. You have not learned the art of forgiveness taught by the Savior. You have to forgive even those who did the wrong. It is by this example. That if you do this you will rise above the pettiness of carnal mens egos and exalt yourself. I promise once that you learn to forgive those that still need to learn. Not only will you excel in Perfection of Sainthood, but emotionally you will feel much better. They will see you in a new light.

Here I'll make this simple for you:

Matt 6:14, 15

14For if ye aforgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15But if ye aforgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

THIS IS A MANDATE FROM THE SAVIOR! NO EXCUSES! No true Christian can deny this. Your Father will not forgive you if you cannot forgive everyone who has wronged you. Else you will never be exalted.

Thinking about it some more. even after Christ mortal passing. To show forgiveness and what it takes for exaltation is set everyday by the Godhead. How many times did you wrong HF in sin, yet he still forgives you. How many times did you rage in anger toward him, yet he is patient enough to forgive and overlook such by repentance. Seriously what do you not get about the gift of the atonement?

It is you and you alone holding yourself from exaltation by building your prison walls out of anger and resentment. Free yourself sister!

Edited July 20, 2011 by Sachi001

[shine7]

What I have learned about forgiving others:

I have no forgiveness in my heart....maybe in my head I want to, but it doesn't go to my heart. I have to ask God to place His Gift of forgiveness into my heart; and then it takes time to let go of my pain. BUT constant prayer finally brings it all about, over TIME. Just decide to NOT give up on striving to forgive and praying. Then that day of 'release' finally comes and His Peace is abundant in your heart.....another small step forward is completed.

Edited July 20, 2011 by shine7

[girlygirl]

Sashi, although I appreciate your scriptural references and advice, I would appreciate the tone of your comments to not be so condescending. I posted this on the message board to not be judged, and get some good feedback that can help me. Saying things like me 'seriously not getting the atonement' really isn't constructive to me. Would you go to someone who struggles with a principle of the gospel like someone who has an alcoholism problem and say, 'seriously! What don't you get about the word of wisdom!?' I think not, but if it makes you feel better then thats fine. Other then that thanks for the comments.

Edited July 20, 2011 by girlygirl

[slamjet]

Girly, a little bit of patience will go a long way. On this forum we get all kinds from understanding to not wholly tactful (my category) to self righteous to preaching and to the condescending crowd. I've gotten into it with a couple of holier-than-thou and they will never listen.

Also, remember that on this forum we're speaking of things of the spirit and heart. It doesn't translate as well to the typed text. So pick out the constructive parts and leave the others to be. It will do good for your blood pressure

[Guest Sachi001]

The problem with this whole thing is that when we have a problem or we've commited certain sins, we're always told "go to your bishop" and thus whatever judgment is made by the bishop, then we are to accept what they say without any question because we are told that they are always inspired in their council. But what if there's a moment where they give you advice or council contrary to what you feel, or you know is just plain wrong? I remember hearing countless times that we are to obey our leaders even if they are wrong because then we will be blessed for our obedience. Are we to just follow what they say blindly without any thoughts on our own? This sounds kinda Jim Jones-ish to me.

Well that's why it's called counseling. You have the gift of the holy ghost for discernment. It's nice to be obedient like some and not question. However if your revelation inside does not feel right then you have the choice to accept or not.

Moses said it best.

Deut 18:22

22When a aprophet bspeaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

[Guest Sachi001]

Sashi, although I appreciate your scriptural references and advice, I would appreciate the tone of your comments to not be so condescending. I posted this on the message board to not be judged, and get some good feedback that can help me. Saying things like me 'seriously not getting the atonement' really isn't constructive to me. Would you go to someone who struggles with a principle of the gospel like someone who has an alcoholism problem and say, 'seriously! What don't you get about the word of wisdom!?' I think not, but if it makes you feel better then thats fine. Other then that thanks for the comments.

Sigh...Sorry you feel it's meant to sound condescending. You cannot understand a persons tone by reading their comments until you have had a spent amount of time in dealing with such person.

Out of all that. All you saw was "seriously" and reacted. It's not about me feeling better. I want you to feel better and free yourself from the chains that are binding you.

BTW yes I would say "seriously" on alcoholism. Been down that road.

Have a nice day. Aloha

[slamjet]

Well that's why it's called counseling. You have the gift of the holy ghost for discernment. It's nice to be obedient like some and not question. However if your revelation inside does not feel right then you have the choice to accept or not.

Moses said it best.

Deut 18:22

22When a aprophet bspeaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

After my mission, I had a Bishop tell me to not marry a beautiful woman because someone will take her away, and also to not marry one who is smarter than me (as dumb as I am, that would really narrow the field). It didn't feel right and I thankfully didn't take it at face value and dismissed it as opinion.

I've always believed and always experience that when I'm being told something difficult, or out of the norm, and it is from God, then I will always have a witness by the Spirit that it's correct. If it's not there, then I'll take it and pray and think about it and see if I get an answer at some point. But I've learned that Church leaders do have opinions and it's not necessarily revelation (talking about their their opinion).

[Backroads]

It seems that in girly's case it's not a matter of a bishop bigheadedly giving an opinion. I think, based on what was posted, girly was truly in an unfair situation where authority was abused. But it looks like it was misuse of the system (someone had a "tattling to the principal" analogy I quite loved).

The system here is girly letting this lousy past go.

[maiku]

My first and, to me, my important point I stress to others and myself when things are rough is that the Church is NOT the Gospel. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is perfect, NOT the people who practice it.

I make an effort to remind myself of this truth often.

I also wouldn't beat myself up over having doubts, I question stuff all the time but I also try to be patient in searching out those answers that I need, something this forum is great for.

[curtishouse]

Okay this is going to be a long story but I need your feedback so bear with me- I have always been 100% mollymormon and believed wholeheartedly that the church was true. A few years back after graduation I went to live with a mormon relative. She decided she didn't want me to live with her anymore and wanted me to go home to my folks. I didn't want to and was going to move in with a mormon roomate. Instead of this being okay she brought the bishop into it. She made him go to my boyfriends family and say I was moving back home without telling me. She then got him to come around to pack my bags. Needless to say we got in an argument and stopped talking. However more drama would come up everyweek and I was stuck in the bishops office with various offenses claimed against me. After about 1 year of rumors flying around about me and being almost called to a church court the bishop said that I was innocent of my offenses and everything claimed against me the church knew was false and shook my hand, and that was it, after all that grief, they washed their hands of the matter and said what i knew all along! (This is a very condensed version of course.)

A year after that I had a boyfriend who forced himself on me. He then felt guilty and made us go to the bishops office. When I was there the bishop acted like it was my fault and talked to us separately and tried his hardest for me to admit that it was my fault and that I was the one to deflower his 'holy priesthood holder!!!'

With these combined experiences looking back and seeing all the stress I went through and wondering why I even kept going to church at all I can't help but feel that this has really shaken my faith. Im scared now of how much the church can control your life. This was a situation that should have been handled between us but instead the church took over it. Every Sunday I was worried of being called into the bishops office, which he did, and made me promise to do certain things. Why did he not just tell her that it was not a church matter? I have been to other churches and felt the spirit, does this mean they are true too? It seems like the church just preaches that it is exclusively for lds purposes only.

I am now married and my husband just got converted to the church. I try on the outside to look faithful but on the inside I feel I don't know if the church is true anymore. I see how the missionaries manipulated his feelings, even saying he could save his whole family if he got baptized (one of the big selling points for my husband who loves his atheist family alot). I walk around church and can't help but feel the fakeness of everyone, and that everyone seems brainwashed. No one is a deviant, and if they are it seems the church is going to intervene. There are so many questions about polygamy and other church's controversial backgrounds that are not taught to us yet we are expected to pay 10% of networth to the church (which I do)...

I love the church but since my bad experiences I just don't feel the same about it anymore. Does anyone have some feedback? Has this happened to anyone else before? Why do I feel like this?

This person "forced himself on you"? That is rape. I'm sure he felt bad about it but first things first, you should have reported him to the police. Your faith seems to be slipping because you know what he did was wrong and instead of him being held accountable for his crime, they sided with the rapist. The statute of limitations is only five years though, I believe, so you still have a chance to report him. I would highly suggest it and once he is convicted, I bet your faith will be stronger as well. Don't let him be shielded behind his religion much like those of the Catholic faith who prey on young children.

[Kindan]

Girly girl:

One thing that really helped me was reading the book, "Believing Christ" by Stephen E. Robinson.

There is a part early in the book where the author says "Don't stop reading here." -- I stopped reading there the first time. Please if you read it, don't stop reading at that point.

The second time I read this book, I was in the middle of a situation where my bishop was quite rude and uncaring. I find it ironic now that it was him that suggested I read this book because all it did was convince me of some of the same things others have mentioned in this thread.

I used to think that the Church was this organization created by God to be in charge of our spiritual growth and salvation. (In my mind this is the view expressed when you said, "Im scared now of how much the church can control your life."

Now I see the Savior himself, personally, with each of us individually, as a partner in my salvation. He (the Savior) created the Church to be an organization to HELP in this arrangement.

This change in my estimation of who was "in charge" was essential in my quest to cope with similar trials and yet continue in faith. Because the faith was then in Christ rather than in the men who are representing Him - for better or worse.

I don't know if this will help you or anyone else. I share it in the chance that it may.

I applaud your strength that I see in your posts. I would like to offer sincere friendship and acceptance.

[Mute]

Okay this is going to be a long story but I need your feedback so bear with me- I have always been 100% mollymormon and believed wholeheartedly that the church was true. A few years back after graduation I went to live with a mormon relative. She decided she didn't want me to live with her anymore and wanted me to go home to my folks. I didn't want to and was going to move in with a mormon roomate. Instead of this being okay she brought the bishop into it. She made him go to my boyfriends family and say I was moving back home without telling me. She then got him to come around to pack my bags. Needless to say we got in an argument and stopped talking. However more drama would come up everyweek and I was stuck in the bishops office with various offenses claimed against me. After about 1 year of rumors flying around about me and being almost called to a church court the bishop said that I was innocent of my offenses and everything claimed against me the church knew was false and shook my hand, and that was it, after all that grief, they washed their hands of the matter and said what i knew all along! (This is a very condensed version of course.)

A year after that I had a boyfriend who forced himself on me. He then felt guilty and made us go to the bishops office. When I was there the bishop acted like it was my fault and talked to us separately and tried his hardest for me to admit that it was my fault and that I was the one to deflower his 'holy priesthood holder!!!'

With these combined experiences looking back and seeing all the stress I went through and wondering why I even kept going to church at all I can't help but feel that this has really shaken my faith. Im scared now of how much the church can control your life. This was a situation that should have been handled between us but instead the church took over it. Every Sunday I was worried of being called into the bishops office, which he did, and made me promise to do certain things. Why did he not just tell her that it was not a church matter? I have been to other churches and felt the spirit, does this mean they are true too? It seems like the church just preaches that it is exclusively for lds purposes only.

I am now married and my husband just got converted to the church. I try on the outside to look faithful but on the inside I feel I don't know if the church is true anymore. I see how the missionaries manipulated his feelings, even saying he could save his whole family if he got baptized (one of the big selling points for my husband who loves his atheist family alot). I walk around church and can't help but feel the fakeness of everyone, and that everyone seems brainwashed. No one is a deviant, and if they are it seems the church is going to intervene. There are so many questions about polygamy and other church's controversial backgrounds that are not taught to us yet we are expected to pay 10% of networth to the church (which I do)...

I love the church but since my bad experiences I just don't feel the same about it anymore. Does anyone have some feedback? Has this happened to anyone else before? Why do I feel like this?

Hi girlygirl,

From reading your post, there are some questions you are going to have decide. Do you believe it is possible for the lds church to be true even if some members/leaders in the church do things you do not feel are right, just, or of God?

Does every action from a church leader, missionary or ward member reflect the thoughts of God? If not, does that make the church false? Or can you overlook that? Is every position given to someone divinely inspired by and called of God? If not, does that mean no position is? Can people make mistakes, even serious ones, and still be called of God? If someone is called of God, would that mean every word they say is inspired? Would that mean they could never make mistakes? Would that mean they could never do anything wrong, make false judgments, jump to conclusions or say things that are simply untrue? That is something you have to decide.

There are going to be people who judge you and there are going to be people who are biased in the church. Does that make the church untrue? That is what you have to decide. You are going to find imperfect people in every religion. You are going to run into members who you do not agree with or ones who do things that are not perfect and that does include leaders.

There were people placed in authority in the Bible and even in the Book of Mormon who made grave sins and these people were not removed from their positions. It caused a lot of people to doubt.

THE BOOK OF ALMA

THE SON OF ALMA

CHAPTER 39

3 And this is not all, my son. Thou didst do that which was grievous unto me; for thou didst forsake the ministry, and did go over into the land of Siron among the borders of the Lamanites, after the harlot Isabel.

4 Yea, she did steal away the hearts of many; but this was no excuse for thee, my son. Thou shouldst have tended to the ministry wherewith thou wast entrusted.

11 Suffer not yourself to be led away by any vain or foolish thing; suffer not the devil to lead away your heart again after those wicked harlots. Behold, O my son, how great iniquity ye brought upon the Zoramites; for when they saw your conduct they would not believe in my words.

THE BOOK OF ALMA

THE SON OF ALMA

CHAPTER 42

31 And now, O my son, ye are called of God to preach the word unto this people. And now, my son, go thy way, declare the word with truth and soberness, that thou mayest bring souls unto repentance, that the great plan of mercy may have claim upon them. And may God grant unto you even according to my words. Amen.

I guess what I'm saying is, if God is real and he is working with people, he doesn't always stop them from making big mistakes. He doesn't always remove them from a position if they make a big sin or if they cause people to doubt. You have to decide if you can look past that and still believe the lds faith is lead by God, despite these things or if you can't. That is what you have to decide.

These are not the only experiences you are likely to experience either. You may experience blessings that you do not feel are inspired. If the spirit is real, you may question if everyone whos say they feel/recognize the spirit really does. You may question if everyone who says they know the church is true really does. Does that mean no blessings are true? Does that mean that the spirit is not real or that no one recognizes the spirit? Do you recognize the spirit?

Look at it this way. If you were in a leadership position and you didn't do something right, say you made a rash judgment, would that make the church false? Try to look at it from both sides. I left the lds faith. I had my name removed when I was 19. I was upset with some things leaders had done as well. I questioned church history. But I also realized I wasn't perfect either. I could have acted better with those leaders. I made mistakes too. It wasn't just a one way street. Look at it from both sides. Be open with yourself. I really do hope you find the answers you're looking for.

[shine7]

I have already shared on this post, but want to add:

Was a visiting teacher to a single mom, recently reactivated, that was quite overweight. One day after we got a new bishop, she called me crying and asked me to come over. She had gone to new bishop for help with rent from recently being laid off. After she explained her temporary need, he said: "what are you doing about your weight?". I was so proud of her, she told him that had nothing to do with why she was there and stood up and walked out. And this is the most awesome of all: she said to me: "A short time ago, this would have caused me to go inactive, BUT, I am not going to go inactive over this, my activity is based on Jesus Christ".