Word of Wisdom?


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Guest Sachi001

Well they can give you some insightful resources on past discussions. As a convert myself I had the same questions as you. However after diligent research you would be surprised why such a revelation exists. Let's look at D&C 89: 1-4

1A aWord of Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

2To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.

4Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

There is a main reason for this preamble before more details on the WoW. Even though it starts out as JS praying on what to do on tobacco spitting. The Lord has given insight to the corruption of temporal pleasures we take for granted that is supporting evil practices throughout the world and revelating for saints to be aware of such.

To understand how and why you have to look at 2 primary culprits of the 18th and 19th century. The Dutch and English East Indies Trading Companies. During this time after the Portuguese discovered the elaborate spices from Ceylon (now Sri Lanka). Europeans became enamored with the riches of such. The English and Dutch set out by circling Africa and picking up chocolate in Africa, coffee in Saudi Arabia, tea and spices in India and China. Another side product was opium in China. Leading to the Opium wars (long story look it up). All the while such products were mixed with tea, and coffee as well to get the high. You wonder why tea time became popular in England? Yeah they were getting high in the social circles.

Now add the fact that these companies had around 50.000 mercenaries to fight wars, and control the trade. Add to that enforcing company rules to enslave children, adults, male or female as indentured servants. Yeah basically grow the food for pennies, or else be beaten or killed. These companies also expanded their empires into Polynesia uprooting Polynesians as slaves in the Copra trade.

Getting it yet?

It's due to the fact that HF revelated to JS that strong drinks are not to be partaken of. Strong drinks do not necessarily just mean coffee and tea, but can also mean chocolate. It was never specific because as saints we are to be aware of

In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days,

That means anything that is designed to destroy your fellow spiritual brothers and sisters is evil and we should not support such if we are aware such is going on.

People often ask me then since the two East Indies companies don't exist today. Then we can have coffee. I tell them no. As other firms just took their place, and still do the same. Slavery still exists for the above described in some places. Many companies are still aware and ignore that they exploit such for huge profits. If you want to partake in such the you are what you buy.

Now do I have to elaborate on the evils of enslavement on tobacco and alcohol such as the Rum Trade? Look it up.

Some video links below one is cheesy, but explains how some are trying fair trade.

Tea, Sugar and Slavery

You decide if you want to support such companies. Myself I don't coffee, tea (except herbal), or chocolate unless I know it's certified fair trade on the chocolate. We have a company in Kona that grows it's own. A bit pricey but it's worth the sacrifice for those kids. I only buy sugar from Maui or Louisiana also.

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Guest gopecon

Near beer - I'd avoid it, but it's mostly about the appearance of evil than the health benefits.

E-cigs - They are not tobacco, so they are technically not a problem. Though I would not recommend them for the sake of the appearance. People watching you may not know the difference, and people do watch members of the Church.

Herbal tea is not made from tea leaves, so it is not considered to be prohibited.

Why coffee? The Lord did not specify why, so we are left to make assumptions. Most people assume the the high caffeine content is a big part of the prohibition, as the prohibitions in the WOW tend to be addictive substances. Since a clear explanation was not given, many people have looked for other explanations such as tannic acid, although that is found in some healthy fruits as well. Bottom line is that it is a standard of obedience to counsel from the Lord.

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It's due to the fact that HF revelated to JS that strong drinks are not to be partaken of. Strong drinks do not necessarily just mean coffee and tea, but can also mean chocolate. It was never specific because as saints we are to be aware of

In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days,

Sachi, "strong" drinks is a term use to describe alcohol (wine, etc). Tea and coffee are in the category of "hot" drinks". And no, it doesn't include chocolate. Both Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum were very clear when they said "hot drinks" meant "tea and coffee", what Joseph said is recorded in Joel H. Johnson's diary (very good friend of him) and Hyrum repeated what Joseph said back in 1842 (9 years later) . So whoever thinks it includes chocolate, milo or whatever else, they're really making their own interpretation.

Edited by Suzie
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I tried a near-beer type beverage and I couldn't get past the smell. It smelled so much like beer that I was getting all those addictive feelings welling back up so I had to pass. It was like someone was refusing to permit me to put the bottle to my lips. I knew if I partook, I would go right back to it.

So to me, near-beer or anything that is like it (replacements for that which is prohibited) is just as bad as the original because it is the attitude the person has towards the stuff that counts. That attitude, as I see it; "well, it's not like the real thing, so it's ok, even though I would like the real thing." Just seems a bit shifty to me.

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I tried a near-beer type beverage and I couldn't get past the smell. It smelled so much like beer that I was getting all those addictive feelings welling back up so I had to pass. It was like someone was refusing to permit me to put the bottle to my lips. I knew if I partook, I would go right back to it.

So to me, near-beer or anything that is like it (replacements for that which is prohibited) is just as bad as the original because it is the attitude the person has towards the stuff that counts. That attitude, as I see it; "well, it's not like the real thing, so it's ok, even though I would like the real thing." Just seems a bit shifty to me.

Almost like when some vegetarians eat meat substitutes "Hey, come eat tofoturkey, it taste just like...turkey!" But if you're a vegetarian, why would you want it to taste like meat? :eek::lol:

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For me it was cigars. How I love cigars; the taste, the smell, but alas, not good. I had my last one about 10 years ago and I still want one. So to me, anything like it would only drive me closer to falling off the wagon.

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I guess it's good for you husband they didn't smell like stinky wet socks :D

In any case, it's amazing how strong our minds put together pleasure, happy and smells. Kind of like me and the smell of machining lubricant. The smell of it reminds me of my dad's machine shop and all the times I spent up there watching in amazement as a kid as he made all this neat stuff from a block of metal. So the scent of #10 weight oil will take me back to those day's.

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Guest mysticmorini

E-cigarets have the same amount (maybe more) of nicotine so i'd say they are not ok but thats just my 2 cents.

As for Near beer, I drink it from time to time and don't think there is anything wrong with it (for me anyway) Usually I just use it to cook brats. The WOW does say barley drinks are good ;-)

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In thinking about it, what I find interesting is that to some people, beer is nasty but I like it, a lot. Maybe it has something to do with drinking Malta in my youth, even as a small child. We had it at every family BBQ. Possibly where I got my palate for the stuff? Who knows.

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Guest mysticmorini

From what I have read a lot of our palate has to do with what we are accustom to. In Japan they eat a fermented bean dish for breakfast, the stuff smells like burning tires. Ask a True Asian with no exposure to Cheese what they think about it. They will say it is very foul.

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Hey, I just wanted to clarify that I don't plan on using these substances, I was just curious. I'm aware that it is a sticky subject and very vague, but I just wanted some background knowledge. Also, some people kept mentioning the "appearance of evil."

I was at a party and stacked a bunch of empty beer bottles, then my friend took a picture and I was in it since I stacked them (BUT I DIDN'T DRINK THEM)...is that picture bad since it has the appearance of evil, considering most people would assume that I drank the beers? I guess if it is true then near beer is definitely not acceptable

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Guest gopecon

Avoiding the appearance of evil is good advice, not necessarily doctrine. There are times when we will be places in life that can be twisted into things they are not by rumor mongers. Someone sees you hug a woman who's not your wife and thinks that something improper is happening (maybe it was an innocent greeting for a sister-in-law). In cases like that, the problem is the rumor monger's, not yours. This is why married people are counseled to avoid driving places with people of the opposite sex. Many missionary rules are based on avoiding appearances that could be misunderstood or twisted out of context.

As members of the Church, we are watched by people who have good ideas about what our standards are. If we want others to take our beliefs seriously, we shouldn't give them reason to think that we don't take them seriously. E-cigs and near beer may or may not be okay from a WOW perspective, but using them in public will give others the idea the ability to say "I saw so-and-so doing ... and he's a goes to your church."

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Guest Sachi001

Sachi, "strong" drinks is a term use to describe alcohol (wine, etc). Tea and coffee are in the category of "hot" drinks". And no, it doesn't include chocolate. Both Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum were very clear when they said "hot drinks" meant "tea and coffee", what Joseph said is recorded in Joel H. Johnson's diary (very good friend of him) and Hyrum repeated what Joseph said back in 1842 (9 years later) . So whoever thinks it includes chocolate, milo or whatever else, they're really making their own interpretation.

I think you missed the point of verse 4 and why the Lord revelated to JS. You can have chocolate but to whom you support. Companies that knowingly support slavery or do you abstain from them and partake with those companies who choose to do it.

Edited by Sachi001
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Guest Sachi001

From what I have read a lot of our palate has to do with what we are accustom to. In Japan they eat a fermented bean dish for breakfast, the stuff smells like burning tires. Ask a True Asian with no exposure to Cheese what they think about it. They will say it is very foul.

Your talking about fermented soybeans called Nato. Yes it stinks and tastes bad. My wife loves it I hate it, but as a good nutrient food it is good for busting up Cholesterol. I eat it once a week with brown rice. Like taking bad medicine. Blech.:eek:

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Guest Sachi001

Hey, I just wanted to clarify that I don't plan on using these substances, I was just curious. I'm aware that it is a sticky subject and very vague, but I just wanted some background knowledge. Also, some people kept mentioning the "appearance of evil."

I was at a party and stacked a bunch of empty beer bottles, then my friend took a picture and I was in it since I stacked them (BUT I DIDN'T DRINK THEM)...is that picture bad since it has the appearance of evil, considering most people would assume that I drank the beers? I guess if it is true then near beer is definitely not acceptable

No sweat. Just information that will help in the future. Besides when anyone asks about the WoW it like opening a can of worms.

The main thing is to understand why JS gave the first 4 verses and especially verse 4 in the beginning before elaborating on the rest of the doctrine. It's about understanding whether you support evil or not by partaking in such. It's revelation and not a commandment.

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Ask a True Asian with no exposure to Cheese what they think about it. They will say it is very foul.

Some cheeses really are, especially French and Belgian cheeses. I tried pairing a Trappist beer (made by Belgian monks) with a cheese produced by the same monastary, and I almost gagged after the first bite.

Edited by Godless
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I think you missed the point of verse 4 and why the Lord revelated to JS. You can have chocolate but to whom you support. Companies that knowingly support slavery or do you abstain from them and partake with those companies who choose to do it uncorrupted.

No sweat. Just information that will help in the future. Besides when anyone asks about the WoW it like opening a can of worms.

The main thing is to understand why JS gave the first 4 verses and especially verse 4 in the beginning before elaborating on the rest of the doctrine. It's about understanding whether you support evil or not by partaking in such. It's revelation and not a commandment.

Are you kidding me?

Here's a list of all the company Kraft Food owns. Here is a list of the stuff Hershey's makes. Like Peter Pan Peanut Butter? Well, here's a list of what ConAgra owns including Peter Pan. Need your Minute Maid orange juice in the morning? Well, they're owned by the Coca Cola Company. Oh wait, don't they make that caffeine filled soda and ice tea? Why yes, they do.

So look in your pantry and see who really owns the brands you buy. If you were to go by what you just posted, you would have to go get a farm and grow all your stuff or just buy a bunch of wheat and rice to live off of. Oh, wait, rice, wheat, seeds, all that comes from Monsanto, another company with issues.

Don't be so naive that you think you can only do business with companies that are not, nor have done anything "corrupt." There is no such thing.

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