Keeping kids out of the mess

[kimzirker]

Two more questions. First of all--thank you for all the support over my husbands online relationship. I'm hoping that it is over, but who really knows. He still wants his ipad to be 'private' and has a passcode lock on it. He says he's not contacting her anymore, but then told me several lies that I know for a fact aren't true. Plus we've already established that he's a liar, so who can really believe anything he says these days? Ok, enough of that and on to the two questions.

1. Should I contact his online girlfriend and expose him? I have a way to contact her. I believe I can do it pretty anonymously using a different phone. The reasoning behind doing this would be two part. Part one--revenge. LOL. I'd like to sugarcoat it, but really that's what it is. It might help speed up the separation part of this whole mess. Part two--she's a victim too. He has lied to her about his age, marital status, child status, job, well--pretty much everything. So my heart kinda goes out to her for falling for someone she thinks is such a great guy but is really just a liar cheating on his wife.

2. For anyone else who's gone through this--how do you keep the kids as uninvolved as possible?? Of course, they know something is wrong. I'm crying all the time, my eyes are bloodshot, I'm irritable, I'm staring, I'm not sleeping. Dad, btw, is just dandy though. He's all smiles and Mr. Fun to the kids these days. Of course, I'm not going to tell them about his girlfriend, but if we do separate or even as we work it out--how much do I tell the kids? I'm finding it pretty much impossible to be the mom I normally am. I'm totally shutting down. My kids are 15, 13, 11, 8, and 6.

[RipplecutBuddha]

1. I would encourage this for the sake of the girlfriend. If she's in the dark about who he really is, she needs to know about it, and fast. Chances are once she does find out, she'll dump him faster than a load of hot rocks. HOWEVER I seriously warn against the revenge. After all, it's not revenge if she didn't know he is a married man with five beautiful kids. Also, it is the Lord's duty to hand out vengance. Nobody else has that right.

2. I would suggest keeping the facts of the matter between you and your husband for now. Tell your children that you and he are having trouble agreeing on some important decisions. If the two of you can work through it, all the better because then your children will see that even when mom and dad disagree, they can find a way to get through the problem. If separation happens, then maybe telling them the details would be a good idea, but even then I would suggest praying about it before making the move.

[kimzirker]

Of course, I meant revenge on HIM not HER! She's on a single's facebook. Why on earth would she think he was a married man with 5 kids? I have no feelings of hatred toward her at all. She's totally not at fault. He's lied to her the entire time. And revenge is really poorly stated and is certainly a VERY wrong reason to do anything. BUT, I'd be a liar too if I didn't say the thought of exposing him doesn't have a little revenge behind it. The main reason, however, would be to help herout of a terrible situation and put an end to it asap so we can try to heal and repair.

[Suzie]

Kim, are you thinking in giving him another chance? Because even if the girlfriend dumps him and with his present and past history, she's NOT going to be the last affair he has (in case you may think so), nope. It seems to be a pattern and he doesn't seem remorseful at all. If I was you, I would kick his ....right away and stay with my kids. Who wants to be with a loser that doesn't really feel sorry for what he is doing and somehow tries to blame YOU for what he is doing? He will keep doing it, over and over and you will be affected of course AND your children as well because you won't be able to cope or do what you need to do as a mom.

If I was you, I would not contact the girl, I would just tell him to move out or I will move out with my children and file for divorce.

[kimzirker]

Suzie, I have just decided to not make any decisions until I've talked with the bishop. That happens on Sunday. I am not in the right frame of mind to really make any rational decisions at this point and I fully recognize that. All my instincts are telling me to GO CRAZY and LASH OUT and toss all his junk into the yard and change the locks and post his conversations on his facebook and go to his work and expose him, and slash his tires, and bust his car windows, and, and, and. Haha. So ya. I won't be doing any of those things. I'm staying calm and I'm being extremely prayerful and I'm going to talk to the bishop on Sunday instead. I'm hopefully going there together with my husband but who knows. I do agree with you though, that he really doesn't seem remorseful at all. He says that just because he isn't reacting the way I want him to react doesn't mean that he isn't sorry or doesn't feel bad. But, yes it does. I've seen him sorry. This ain't it. So just holding on until Sunday and then I'm going to make some decisions. :)

[slamjet]

1) Leave the girlfriend alone. She's not your issue. It's his. And he is yours. To confront her will only make a mess of things and pull you into the mire. It will also end any hope of reconciling with your husband. If she is to be dropped from the picture, it is his task, not yours. Concentrate on you and hubby. If there is a divorce, you confronting the girlfriend will only serve to embitter more resentment and will make the negotiations more difficult, if not impossible.

2) To state the obvious, the kids don't need to know. He is still their father and will look badly on you for beating him up in their eyes. They're too young to understand what's happening and all they know is mommy is crying all the time. It's not their fight, it's yours. So do your best to stay composed around them. They don't need the "drama." In my divorce, the kids were not involved. We handled it like adults and both sat down and filled out the papers and came to agreements on child support, visitation, etc. Thankfully, she wasn't out to take me to the cleaners because she knew if she did, she wouldn't see a thing because I would be in prison and/or out of work because who would hire a person who's checks are being garnished (I'm still without steady employment, but we worked around that). All without lawyers. We didn't even tell the kids. It was enough for them to deal with not having daddy in the home anymore. It wasn't until about two years later they figured it out. By then, it was old news and they were able to handle it better.

Do your best to keep an even keel. It's good you're going to talk to your Bishop. Be open and honest with him and let him help you come to a sensible path and solutions.

[kimzirker]

Of course I'm not going to start dad bashing with the kids!!! LOL. Well, maybe it's not so funny. Maybe some people might, but that's not me. I guess the real question is how on earth do you go from where I currently am back to normally functioning mom again and not emotionally scar the kids on the way? I'm guessing the answer is prayer. Lots and lots of prayer and constant effort. Haha, but I'm hoping for some kind of magic remedy instead?

I do appreciate what you said about the online girlfriend though. As I read your reply I realize that me contacting her is just another way for me to try to control and manage my pain. He needs to make that decision, not me. If he doesn't break it off, well that will just speak volumes instead of me forcing the break. If he breaks it off, well, at least that's something. That was excellent advice and I feel good about that. Whew--you just saved me a few bucks on a disposible phone...

Edited July 29, 2011 by kimzirker

[slamjet]

Kids are more resilient than we give them credit. Just don't dump on them. Until your husband decides to grow up, they're your #1. Go with lot's of prayer and do the best you can do. Control what you can (and that essentially is you) and leave the rest to God and providence.

[seeking_peace]

It’s good that you want to keep the kids out of the mess You shouldn’t tell them the details, but I think that it is a disservice to them not to acknowledge that there is something. There’s no reason to ignore the elephant in the room.

Kids will draw their own conclusions. Some of the older ones have probably picked up clues and have figured things out. Sometimes, being the egocentric being that they are, kids will imagine that if you are unhappy it’s because of something that they did. I think that you handled it pretty well in telling them that you got some bad news about a loved one. That should be enough for now.

I took my son out for ice cream. We sat in the car eating Dairy Queen blizzards and I said, “I know that you’ve been aware that there is tension between your dad and I. I don’t think that it is fair to you for us to pretend that it isn’t there, so I just want to acknowledge it and apologize for the way it is affecting you. I’m not sure what will happen between us, but we are trying to work things out. I want you to know that what ever happens with us, it has nothing to do with you and that we both love you.” He was 15 at the time.

He really didn’t comment much, but he seemed calmer after that.

Infidelity was never discussed, other than my son saying, “I know what’s going on,” and then when we told him that we were divorcing, my ex said, “I’ve upset your mother with some of my internet friendships.”

As for the other woman…. It’s probably really, really good advice to leave her alone. I honestly think that is advice that I would have a hard time following, though. ( I sent the then-mistress-now-wife a letter telling her that I was aware of their relationship and that their actions were affecting not only them, but two spouses and seven children.) If you do decide to contact her, I would suggest not doing it anonymously. It would be easy for her to dismiss it. I would send her a very polite, “I am John’s wife. I’m afraid that he hasn’t been upfront with you.” And then just state facts: We’ve been married for X years, we have 5 children, he is 40 years old.

[Gwen]

I don't know if this has been mentioned in either of your threads but I think it's important to keep in mind. Counseling with the bishop is a good thing and I can't say if you should stay or leave your husband.....

but....

keep in mind your bishop can not (no matter how bad things are) counsel you to get a divorce. All conversations there will be focused on reconciliation.... and that may be possible and a good thing. But if divorce is the answer the bishop will not be the one to say it, you need to seek the lord directly for the hard answers.

Just something I think you need to remember as you go through this.

[jmpcs]

I have been reading these posts and wanted to add my support. I recently found myself in a very similar situation. My children were even the exact same ages as yours. My husband did leave our home for about six weeks...I told him that as long as he was in contact with "her" he could not be here. I was shocked when he chose her. Our children were devastated when he left, even though they didn't really know why. We told them that Mom and Dad were having some struggles and that Dad was going to be staying somewhere else for a while. I really wanted them to understand that grown ups have hard times, but that doesn't mean you give up on each other. He slept on his couch at his office during the week and "her" place on the weekends. After about a month of that he realized that he did not want to be with her - she was pretty psycho it turned out. I could hardly get myself out of bed in the morning, let alone take care of my kids. I had to call my sister and ask her to fly out and help me. He created such a mess and only now, eight months later, is he really understanding the extent of it. It was like he was a totally different person - he actually doesn't remember much from that time so when I remind him of things he said and did, he is amazed at what a jerk he was. It will take me a long time to get over this and, truthfully, I don't think I ever will. Forgiving is one thing, forgetting is impossible. I know that at some point my children will need to be told. There were a lot of things that he missed...ordaining my oldest son a Priest and middle son a Deacon...soccer games and basketball games. He basically just checked out of our lives for two months after being such a great dad. My family knows and his family knows and I'm sure that one day something will be said to my children by some inconsiderate relative so we need to talk to them first. I really don't want any family secrets. They are still young, but one day they deserve to know. Honestly, I still have days where I look at him and I just want to turn and run. It repulses me to think of what he did with another woman. I love him, but my respect and trust are gone. He is very loving and attentive now, but it took a while. His feelings for her did not go away over night, but what he has realized is that those feelings were a fantasy. I really don't know why my husband would do something like this...he has a great job and we have five awesome kids. I think I have been a good wife. Maybe some men just hit midlife and want to start over. He told me that once several months ago...that he felt like he just wanted a different life. I have a really hard time understanding that because, like I said, we have a good life. She also was pretty young - 29. He's 42. It really sucks! But...you can and will get through this...with or without him. That is what helped me. I realized that I didn't need him and once I adopted that attitude and he saw that I would be fine without him, he realized everything he was giving up. I wanted to be with him, but I knew that I would be fine if he left for good. Mostly my heart ached for my kids. My eight year old climbed into bed with me in the middle of the night one night when he was gone crying and said, " I would rather die than not have Daddy here with me." My husband had a crappy childhood...his mom did the same thing and he didn't see his dad for years. I will not put my kids through that. I want to end this cycle here and now. Just know that you are not alone. I really felt so alone in the beginning. I didn't want to talk to anyone. People in the ward would ask where he was...he had a very high profile calling. It really is terrible what this kind of thing does to a person and family. He pretty much ruined his reputation with both our families and our ward. He is trying to earn it back, but it will take years, and I don't think it will ever be forgotten by anyone. God bless.

[kimzirker]

Thank you so much for that reply. It really touched my heart. I talked to an old stake president of mine from years ago yesterday. He is a close trusted friend. I told him the whole story from start to finish (2 hours worth). His advice to me was to tell my husband everything I knew about the online relationship. EVERYTHING. He said my husband would never heal until he hits rock bottom. His best advice was similar to what you just said. Basically I have to make the decisions that are best for me and my kids. I don't need to make the decisions that are best for my husband. That's his job. So is it best to stay or go? He said his priesthood advice is that that if both parties are willing then through the healing power of the atonement anything can be made whole and new again. Then he said his fatherly advice is that he's tired of seeing me get hurt by this man and I need to take steps to protect myself and my kids. (longer story...) So he made reservations at a nice restaurant for us yesterday and then we saw a movie. It was a nice night out. When we got home I told him everything. It was really really hard. He was upset. Haha. Mad at me for going through his stuff. Tried to blame me for everything over the sun. Then told me he wanted a divorce. I told him that I was ok with that choice, but I was also willing to try and work through it with him too. He did not want to do that. He did say he wanted to be friends though and that he would continue to support us financially and finish helping me through school. What was strange to me is that I hardly even shed a tear when I talked with him last night and this morning I actually woke up with the greatest feeling of peace in my heart. It's been a long long time since I've felt any peace. He may change his mind when he hits rock bottom, but either way--I'm ok. I'm a survivor. I did nothing wrong. I've kept every covenant I ever made to him. At the end of the day though I deserve someone willing to do the same for me and so do my kids.

[Just_A_Guy]

1. Should I contact his online girlfriend and expose him? I have a way to contact her. I believe I can do it pretty anonymously using a different phone. The reasoning behind doing this would be two part. Part one--revenge. LOL. I'd like to sugarcoat it, but really that's what it is. It might help speed up the separation part of this whole mess. Part two--she's a victim too. He has lied to her about his age, marital status, child status, job, well--pretty much everything. So my heart kinda goes out to her for falling for someone she thinks is such a great guy but is really just a liar cheating on his wife.

No. Someone needs to do it, but not you. The last thing you need is for him to paint you as a vindictive @#$%, either in his own mind or (if it comes to that) in court. Be the good guy--whether you settle or litigate, it will work to your advantage.

2. For anyone else who's gone through this--how do you keep the kids as uninvolved as possible?? Of course, they know something is wrong. I'm crying all the time, my eyes are bloodshot, I'm irritable, I'm staring, I'm not sleeping. Dad, btw, is just dandy though. He's all smiles and Mr. Fun to the kids these days.

I'll defer to others regarding what you tell the kids. But regarding this behavior, let me say this:

I know you're hurting, but you have got to get control of yourself. Now. I'm handling some post-divorce proceedings for a mother who goes all to pieces--in front of the children--every time their dad's name is mentioned. Dad is a manipulative SOB, but in a recent temporary orders hearing the court tried to look at it from the kids' perspective and decided that from their POV, Dad's the sane one and Mom's the crazy one. Dad got temporary custody and will probably get long-term custody as well. (Didn't help that my client had no fewer than three tearful outbursts during the hearing itself.)

Again: I know you're hurting, but it's got to stay inside. Get therapy, learn some coping mechanisms, do whatever it takes--but keep in control. Your relationship with your children, emotionally and legally, may well depend on it.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Just_A_Guy

[kimzirker]

I appreciate your reply just a guy. The crying is well under control these days. It was just the original shock of it all. And me wanting to be a fixer of everything. I'm back to normal. Crazy Kim only lasted a couple of days. I still get emotional, but I do it privately. Things are not great at home. There is a tension and my husband is starting to make quite a show of it all. I believe he will be moving out soon and to be honest, I'm pretty relieved. (I believe this because I told him he needed to do that). I have no idea what the future holds for me and my family at this point, but I do know that it doesn't involve my husband having a wife and a girlfriend. :) (Came home from the store today to find him online with his girlfriend again). I'm ready to do what's best for me and my kids. Period. No revenge needed. I'm at peace that the Lord is by my side and I will depend on him to give me the strength to endure this bump in the road.

[mirkwood]

You indicated you are thinking about giving him another chance. You also said in the OP this:

He still wants his ipad to be 'private' and has a passcode lock on it.

He isn't done cheating. There is no reason for him to have a password that you don't have access to.

My wife has access to a word document on the computer that has every variation of passwords that I use on any accounts I have. I only have two usernames I ever use, so she can check on anything at any time, including my email. The exception is my work laptop which is passworded for security purposes, including BCI access. I will log onto the laptop anytime she wants if she feels the need to poke around. She just doesn't have access to secure programs I use at work.

How you tell your kids what is going on partially depends on how old they are. I would make one suggestion, no matter what their age is. Do not use them as a weapon/tool against your husband (ex-husband?). You will harm your kids far more then you could ever harm him.