Husband's brother in prison for child porn


Guest sunflower2006
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As for your cognitive dissonance mumble jumble. You sure made quick assessment after reading a few posts on a blog.

I, too, use the term cognitive dissonance. What is your problem with that terminology?

Also, aren't we all making quick assessments when we read and respond to someone's posts on an advice forum?

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At the risk of fueling the flames, I'm going to add my .02:

Those who are deeply addicted to pornography go through the whole gamut of different types of porn because the one they were on has become less stimulating. When someone reaches child porn, they are truly at the limit of what porn can offer them. To say it's ok tells me that they accept that this type of porn is an acceptable way to get sexual stimulation. It's been my experience with so many folks I've spoken to that this type of pornography gives the addict permission to do what it is they see because they internalize it, justify it, and begin to view it as mainstream.

It has also been my experience that those who accept child pornography as "ok" have been abused themselves as a child. If a child is raised in a home where there is yelling all the time, then he goes to his friends house and it's peaceful, quiet and agreeable, this child is going to feel something is missing and wrong because that's not what happens in life. It becomes their "normal." It's the same with being abused. Viewing other children being abused is still internalized as their "normal."

Now, not all who have been abused go on to abuse other children. But those who abuse other children have been abused themselves. I believe that with these family members saying that child pornography is not that serious should put up a whole lot of red flags for this mother. One of the effects of pornography addiction is that the person objectifies the target of their pornographic habit. This is no different with children. They are highly at risk of being targeted and being objectified as any other person.

This mother should seek out counsel from her Bishop, a therapist and possibly an attorney. Knowing what she knows puts her in a bad spot because if something does happen, then she will be nailed with "Failure to Protect" and possibly have her children taken way from her. If this family does not get help and change their views, she needs to consider protecting herself and her children. There is a serious risk sticking for her to stick around.

I know this sounds alarmist, but there are serious consequences to consider.

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Slamjet is absolutely correct. Also, pedophiles frequently use child pornography as a tool to normalize adult-child sex to their victim, saying, 'see, other kids are doing it, so it's okay.' That kind of thing.

For all the OP knows, this has already occurred with her children, especially if they've been alone with their Uncle (there is no proof, but the possibility is there).

I feel like a broken record when I say this, but it's always true, pray about this. Read your scriptures for inspiration on what to do. Pray for a calm heart and a clear mind so that the Spirit can better guide you.

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Guest sunflower2011

Thanks to everyone for their insight. It helps to have others say what I'm thinking. Just for the record, I would never openly accuse FIL of molesting children, but I would like to be able to express that concern to my husband and have him understand that his father might possibly be a child molester, given some things that have happened......and there are more odd things that I haven't shared here. I would never ruin a person's life by reporting something that I didn't have evidence of, but I also refuse to put my children in harms way when I have a motherly instinct or gut feeling. FIL doesn't have to know why. I just wish my husband didn't get so angry when I bring it up.

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Thanks to everyone for their insight. It helps to have others say what I'm thinking. Just for the record, I would never openly accuse FIL of molesting children, but I would like to be able to express that concern to my husband and have him understand that his father might possibly be a child molester, given some things that have happened......and there are more odd things that I haven't shared here. I would never ruin a person's life by reporting something that I didn't have evidence of, but I also refuse to put my children in harms way when I have a motherly instinct or gut feeling. FIL doesn't have to know why. I just wish my husband didn't get so angry when I bring it up.

The vibe I get from you story is that there is at least a fair chance that child abuse/molestation has occurred in the family. You would indeed do well to protect your children, by not having the man alone with him. Also, harboring a cautious mind, while not voicing your fears/concerns publicly is a sound balance. Kudos to you for overall intelligence and long-suffering in this horrific situation.

When it comes to your husband, you have gotten plenty of counsel here to continue to "trust but verify." Be a tough-minded accountability partner. I'd just encourage you to also remember the "partner" part. Your husband needs to know that there is hope, and you can regrow trust in him. If that's not true, then you will need to look at your options, and do the spiritual work others have recommended.

You are indeed a victim in this. However, if you do have hope for your husband, and want to help him through his recovery, then you will have to continue to be strong and yet hope-filled. Another reality, sad as it is--your hubby simply may not be ready to face what his father might be. Who knows? Deep down, he may already know it is true. Chances are, if that's so, he'll eventually disclose it to you...once he can trust you to begin trusting him. I pray God's strength and blessing to you...this is one hefty cross you are bearing.

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From one spouse who married into a family with this problem to another - hi there sunflower! The details are always different, but there are also often similarities. If I may, here are a few principles that I've adopted to help me stay sane through all my in-law insanity.

1. When thinking of your husband and his screwed up family, become familiar with the term "Homeostasis". Figure out how it applies in your inlaw dynamics. It basically means that blood is thicker than water - but in your situation, it might mean "it doesn't matter how many children are sacrificed at the altar of the male hormones, blood is thicker than water". If you make yourself a threat to your in-law's family, you might find yourself attacked and removed by all of them. It's an open question about whether your husband will remove himself from his family and go with you, or if he will kick you out to remain with his family - but yeah, it's quite common for such families to move mountains to remain together and act as a unit to protect the status quo from outside threats. Which is you.

2. Imagine a nightmare scenario for a moment. Imagine one of your husband's relatives tried to do something to one of your kids. Imagine the trial. There are two sets of chairs in the courtroom - those behind the defendant (perpetrator - hubby's brother or father), and those behind the plaintiff (victim - your kid). Imangine your husband's family filing into the courtroom and picking a seat. Where are they sitting? Are they sitting behind your kid, or behind the family member who tried to offend your child? I am not saying this has happened, or that it will ever happen. I am not making a prediction. But I am saying that when such nightmare scenarios do happen, there tend to be a lot of empty chairs behind the kid. I can tell, based on your posts, that you will be right there with your kid. If your husband sits with you and your kid, then hooray. If he will not, well, you have some questions about your marriage - there's an answer.

3. Regardless of what side your husband picks - you - YOU - are your children's defender and protector. You are the mamma bear. You will be the person that stands between your innocent children and the cancer present in your inlaw's family. It's one of satan's best tools - crap like this moves from generation to generation. The father says it's not that bad. Hubby and brothers agree. What will your children be taught? If it's not clear in your head now - then take a minute and make it clear. Pick your lines in the sand, make them clear, and follow through whenever necessary, however it's necessary. If the cost of staying married to your husband, is that your kids learn "it's not that bad", then you decide what side of the line that falls on.

4. I will say the impossible: It is possible to love everyone in your husband's family. I will say another impossible thing: God has commanded you to do exactly that. It took me a few years to figure out how to do it - but I testify that it is possible. I sincerely urge you, no matter what happens, to find a way to love those people. If you can do it, your children's lives will be blessed. It will be easier to figure out what you should do, and easier to do it. Here's a hint - it is possible to love someone and testify against them. It is possible to love someone that you must take violent action against in order to protect you or your children.

Good luck.

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Am I one of the 2 people that understands what PC is talking about?

In no way shape or form is PC condoning child pornography or the viewing of it. He is trying to explain how the parents could be feeling. He's trying to explain why they are standing behind their son. PC even goes so far to say that is wrong, but he is also saying it is understandable.

He is also saying that addicts are not 100% clean immediately--it takes time to be able to completely walk away. So, expecting a spouse to be perfect is completely irrational.

And I agree completely with MOE.

:clap: MOE and PC

I understood what PC was saying. Yes the parents are trying to grieve and support their son. sunflower stated the parents didn't understand why he was in prison implying they think viewing child porn is no big deal.

Like I said before. Parents should acknowledge their childs wrong doing and support them through the consequences of their crime/wrong doing. Saying this man should be in prison is not being appropriately supportive of anyone.

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I don't think you're getting what was PC was either. As I say this, I wish to emphasize that I absolutely agree with what you've said about child pornography, it's victims, and how atrocious a crime it is. But when parents discover that their children are guilty of such a heinous act, often times they try to make justifications, not to lessen the guilt of the child, but to lessen their own sense of guilt and failure. It isn't unlike the stages of grief.

It is extremely hard to tell if their justifications are statements that they don't believe the crime is as serious as the rest of us do, or if it is an attempt to mitigate their own feelings and pain.

so, with a slight rephrasing, the parents need empathy, not ostracism.

I agree they need empathy. Even if they are justifying their son's actions. Which is what sunflower's post sounded like to me.

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Why does she need to see her bishop?

There are serious marital problems here. Serious enough that counseling would probably be appropriate. If the husband isn't willing to "cleave unto his wife" especially in light of the seriousness of the problems in this family....well, she needs Priesthood support from somewhere.

Where do you suggest she get that support who is better than the Bishop?

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I understand the cognitive dissonance issue; but I have dealt with several parents of criminal defendants and most of them do admit both their child's guilt and the gravity of the offense, within a relatively short time frame.

What father-in-law is doing is understandable during the initial "shock and denial" stage. But if the legal process for brother-in-law has already ended with sentencing--that's more than enough time for father-in-law to have come to terms with this. His continual denial doesn't necessarily make him an unfit grandparent or a pedophile, but I'd be keeping an eye on him at this point. (More for the twisted things he might say my kids, than anything he might do to them.)

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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  • 5 weeks later...

At the risk of fueling the flames, I'm going to add my .02:

Those who are deeply addicted to pornography go through the whole gamut of different types of porn because the one they were on has become less stimulating. When someone reaches child porn, they are truly at the limit of what porn can offer them. To say it's ok tells me that they accept that this type of porn is an acceptable way to get sexual stimulation. It's been my experience with so many folks I've spoken to that this type of pornography gives the addict permission to do what it is they see because they internalize it, justify it, and begin to view it as mainstream.

It has also been my experience that those who accept child pornography as "ok" have been abused themselves as a child. If a child is raised in a home where there is yelling all the time, then he goes to his friends house and it's peaceful, quiet and agreeable, this child is going to feel something is missing and wrong because that's not what happens in life. It becomes their "normal." It's the same with being abused. Viewing other children being abused is still internalized as their "normal."

Now, not all who have been abused go on to abuse other children. But those who abuse other children have been abused themselves. I believe that with these family members saying that child pornography is not that serious should put up a whole lot of red flags for this mother. One of the effects of pornography addiction is that the person objectifies the target of their pornographic habit. This is no different with children. They are highly at risk of being targeted and being objectified as any other person.

This mother should seek out counsel from her Bishop, a therapist and possibly an attorney. Knowing what she knows puts her in a bad spot because if something does happen, then she will be nailed with "Failure to Protect" and possibly have her children taken way from her. If this family does not get help and change their views, she needs to consider protecting herself and her children. There is a serious risk sticking for her to stick around.

I know this sounds alarmist, but there are serious consequences to consider.

not sure why im posting in so many threads tonight but whatever.

this here is the most reasonable post i read on here. mother of children Topic creator RED FLAGS ARE GOING OFF. RUN FOR THE FREAKIN HILLS. GRAB SOME GUNS AND RUN.

in laws support a child porn addict?....if it was me inlaws would be banned from house with threat of death upon entering. possibly a restraining order if i could find a way to get one.

spouse ignores instincts and mocks me despite this? ....my spouse would be seeing a counsoler with me really fast or i'd be seeing a divorce lawyer.

and bishop go see him. talk to him. if spouse wont come with you kick his hide out of the house or just leave.

seriously kids are in danger. your mothers instinct(probably the holy ghost too) is raising a red flag. if your husband wont side with you. go see a divorce lawyer now as you cant kick his parents out of his life. go now. see one. get out of there. you have two possible child molestors(with a gut feeling telling you so) around your kids

LEAVE NOW.

seriously why is this a question? if i had kids and had the slightest thought there were child molestors near them....i'd get the holy heck out of there and a grab a gun.

the bolded part especially. ALARM IS GOING OFF WAKE UP. seriously if i knew you and i was there i'd be helping you pack bags and you'd be sleeping at my house. seriously get out.

as the guy i quoted said child porn is the most vial of all. to recover from child porn i think all doctors have said is impossible. if two inlaws are supporting. your husband is supporting them. his brother is convicted of it....this is an uphill battle i must say is not worth the fight. just leave. run. abandon ship. search his history if you see any child porn pop up on your PC....run now dont even tell him. just leave. secretly install a tracking software too so you can know for sure. before searching a computer for porn....pray about it. pray for protection so you dont end up falling for its vial traps. PRAY

i mean think. if your right. and your kids get molested....the horror you will have caused will eat you alive and i really do mean youll want to kill yourself. as someone that is well versed in spiritual promptings i suspect this is one the way you describe it as such a sickening feeling reminds me of me and reminds me of my mother's own promptings.

i wish you luck.

one more piece of advice. pray, pray, pray, pray. know if what your feeling is The Lord speaking to you or not. ask for a sure knowledge of it. if you are still sure afterwards...and your husband wont budge. once again i repeat LEAVE else your forever flirting with fire.

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One thing about a mother's gut is that it's her God given way of protecting her children, especially if there's a chance that someone might be a child molester. I also feel that it's a red flag if someone feels that there's nothing wrong with child porn, as it means that they were abused as a child, and either could become an abuser, or chose a pedophile over their own child.

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I earlier urged caution about openly accusing the parents, despite gut feeling. At the same time, let me repeat my own family's practice--we do not leave our children alone with older males, period. Even with sleepovers, we have to know the family really well, before we allow our children to do so. When I was a kid, I could walk to the store by myself at 7 or 8. Now, the 7-11 is 3 minutes from our house, and our 10-year girl is not allowed to go by herself. Maybe we are over cautious. Maybe that's why I can also say, be very hesitant about voicing gut-feelings publicly. When you're careful with your own, you can be careful what you say.

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  • 1 month later...
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lets see i once realized something that i did not think would ever be true and it is this

when we here about child molesters or any of the sort we think will if i ever see that happen to anyone kid or anthing like that i will protected that kid i will make sure that person gets his butt in jail

but saidly i discovered that when its your family it does not matter i don't really want to say how i figure it out but lets just say their are some members in my family i hate with good reasoner i especial hate how the sittuation was delt with ...it was not dealt with but i was order and told to deal with it ....protecting the family is to important i am sorry your going threw that i turelly hate that for you but family secreats r more important the saving a child some times

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  • 1 month later...

Where do you suggest she get that support who is better than the Bishop?

Theoretically, a bishop is a good resource for spiritual guidance. Practically, however, my experience as a recovering addict and my wife's experience as the spouse of a recovering addict is that while bishops are usually great at empathizing, they are often very short on understanding what sex and pornography addiction is really about and the damage sex addiction always causes to the spouse.

My advice to SunFlower is to always, always trust your gut feelings. Always. The other thing I recommend is that you attend and get to know women in S-Anon. They will help you recognize and repair the damage (too often unseen or unnoticed) caused by your husband's addiction. S-Anon is better than just about any program out there (including the Church's) at helping women recover from their husbands' sex addiction. A lot of LDS are gravitating to S-Anon because they find other women there who have walked that path before and have answers.

I really hope you'll forgive the self-promotion, but we've got a website rowboatandmarbles.org (*edit to remove link) that addresses recovery from sex addiction both for the addict and the spouse--from the Latter-day Saints perspective. There's a lot of good stuff there that can help LDS women understand exactly what they're dealing with when their husband has a "little porn problem." In particular, "edit to remove link" is a good primer about what to look for in a husband who is either in recovery or continuing to act out on his addiction.

Gook luck to you! Remember to trust your gut!

Edited by pam
Links to personal websites for businesses etc must be in your signature.
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Wow, usually I'd say "you chose to forgive him and he's gone clean, so you need to work on forgiving him" - but CP is terrible... tough spot. I guess I'd say lay off his dad if all you've got is a gut feeling and no evidence.. I'm sorry you're in this mess...

But I'd trst your gut enough not to let your kids be alone with him... it seems like it somehow runs in the family...

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I had a recent experience with discovering my fiance on child porn'

since speaking to him and his parents about it I have heard every lie and every excuse.

we were working towards A temple marriage so I thought.

his mom says well its not child porn unless there under 12??? Can you imagine

his dad gets a high powered attorney then leaves the country on a charity mission for doctors'

meanwhile s x x is living with friends in a multi million dollar home in river bottoms and is protected and continues his addiction.

instead of telling his sister with 3 little girls they continue to invite him around them.....sick

denial....cover up....pretend it doesn't exist

How does anyone get help this way? Do they need the guy to molest a child in there family before they wake up?

that's the worst part is he will stay sick just so a wealthy prominent family is not embarrassed

I'm glad I'm out but it amazes me what goes on with the non protecting of our children.

I am the bad guy because I made it known what he was doing

s x x some porn was kidnapping of Asian teens and violent brutal rape......God help him no one else will.money seems to buy a child sex deviant freedom.

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Fehu, it takes the system time, but as long as this has been reported to the authorities (it has reported it, right?) sooner or later they'll come down on this guy like a ton of bricks.

I do some criminal defense work in Utah, and I can tell you that the prosecutors I've worked with have almost no tolerance for this kind of thing.

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OP were you molested as a child? I ask because that would make you more aware of molesters. Remember Susan Powell? Well you are not gone but your family sounds so similar it would scare the heck out of me.

If your husband sides with his parents you need to leave with the kids. Make sure the kids are not allowed to be with your husband or inlaws unsupervised afterwards.

My husbands family is similar to yours. We discussed this very early on in our relationship. We made sure none of our kids were ever alone with any of them. In fact we pretty much had no contact at all except with his sister. My husband was determined that the disease would stop with him. This is where your husband is messing up. It is a huge mistake and puts him firmly on the sick side of the family.

I say forgive them all, love them all and burn the bridges between you, your children and them. It is your responsibility to protect those kids and stop the carry over to the next generation since your husband wont.

I may sound very hard but it is so important to break that line of illness. It must not be carried down.

I even feel sorry in a way for your husband but if he wont do it then you have to.

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