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Bryans_Saturdays

Are We A Closed Minded, Judgemental People?

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It sure sounded like you were lumping them together to me...but i accept your explanation....I sure don't claim to have been raised the "right" way by any means. I just think that no matter how you were raised at some point youhave to think for yourself no matter what you were taught and i just don't judge others for what they believe. I may not agree with them I just feel they have a reason for feeling that way the same as I do. ...and I also recognize that none of have all the answers. That's why it is nice to see what others think...hence my being on this web site.

..... :( ...and yes I could use a hug about right now thanks.

How could you possibly link homosexuals in the same group with those who hurt others? And how can you not understand?

Geeez louise I wasn't linking homosexuals in the same group as anything.... edited with: NOT meaning ALONG WITH

I meant AND to imply AND ........... homosexuals AND those who hurt others

TWO seperate groups ......

someone need a hug?

How can I not understand? Possibly how I was brought up.... that statement "I think that the way we were raised has a lot to do with tolerance of others. If someone is taught that rules are most important than people those are the ones who will judge another harshly. " was something that hit home... "BECAUSE THAT"S THE WAY IT IS" ...edited: THAT is what I heard growing up.... I didn't grow up with a religious family.... sure glad you were taught what was right and wrong....the correct way. ;)

Peace out,

Lindy

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I'll sure take the cyber-hug.....nice to know that someone cares enough to take the time to send it! Have a wonderful day everyone.

Here's my hug for you too.... everyone needs a hug once in a while! :D

:bighug: ... didn't want to steal SF's bear hug....LOL

and I am sorry I was snotty, I'm usually pretty easy to get along with ;)

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I could go on and on and on and on. It all makes me sad. We preach forgiveness, tolerance, acceptance. But I fear we are a church of hypocrites.

The end.

Thank Goodness that you are not judgemental like all those other hypocrits you've condemned because they don't measure up to your standards..

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That is a very circular comment Snow. So when exactly is enough.... enough? At what point do you think it crosses the line from having different values, to being hurtfully judgemental? Am I for example wrong, and/or hypocritical, when I look at contempt to what people with the religious values of the Taliban, do to their women...... the gentalia mutilation, beatings, and killings? Am I wrong in criticizing Al Queda for flying jets into buildings? Or is that just one of those..... they attacked me, so I fight back, and may the best fighter win.... type things? Where is the line drawn? Should it ever be drawn?

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"Why can't the rest of the world just see and understand how much more pure, wholesome, and clean we are as members of the Lord's true church?"

:lol::lol::lol: (Spluttering and gasping for breath from laughing.)

Oh, my! Lordy, Lordy, Lordy!

Welcome to the board, Bryan. You are right that many (though not all) LDS are closed-minded and judgmental. In fact, probably all people are, to one extent or another. As the local Institute director says, people are "bundles of contradictions." I really, really like LDS people, and feel quite comfortable with them, mostly. However, we are FAR from perfect, and many of us (myself included) have a LOT to learn about the gospel. Your examples point out some of the things we need to improve. Unfortunately, there are more serious things we need to repent of, too.

The crack about Pepsi just kills me! I've been in the Church all my life and still haven't been able to find any official statement saying we shouldn't drink Coke, Pepsi, or the like! (I know, I know, Pres. Hinckley in a TV interview--that's not an official statement of Church policy, folks!) I know a bishop who likes to bring Dr. Pepper to ward potlucks. That must throw some people for a loop! :D

Dror

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That is a very circular comment Snow. So when exactly is enough.... enough? At what point do you think it crosses the line from having different values, to being hurtfully judgemental? Am I for example wrong, and/or hypocritical, when I look at contempt to what people with the religious values of the Taliban, do to their women...... the gentalia mutilation, beatings, and killings? Am I wrong in criticizing Al Queda for flying jets into buildings? Or is that just one of those..... they attacked me, so I fight back, and may the best fighter win.... type things? Where is the line drawn? Should it ever be drawn?

That's a different topic. If you criticize Al Queda for being evil and murderous thugs AND are an evil and murderous thug yourself - that's dandy. If you stand in judgement of others because they are judgemental... well that's hypocritical.

Mormons are, by and large, about as judegemental as other religionists. The more educated and converted to Christ they are, the less judgemental they tend to be. Least that's been my experience in California.

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Am I for example wrong, and/or hypocritical, when I look at contempt to what people with the religious values of the Taliban, do to their women...... the gentalia mutilation, beatings, and killings?

Sgallan, just to put the facts straight, the Taliban are mainly Afghan and Pakistani. These cultures do not cut off women's genetilia. This is mainly an African custom, not one in Asia Minor or closeby regions.

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Sorry guys but I'm the BEST at being humble. :) I always have been.

Heh, that made me think of my wife always arguing with me about who loves the other the mostest. :)

"I love you, Honey"

"I love YOU, Sweetie, and I love YOU the mostest."

"No, because I love you the mostest, Sweetheart, and I always have."

Arguing can be fun. :)

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Thank Goodness that you are not judgemental like all those other hypocrits you've condemned because they don't measure up to your standards..

Did you keep reading, Snow? To quote myself:

Yes. You have pointed out one of the sticky points of the pride vs. humility ballance. I'm on a personal quest to be more humble and less judgemental. So after a year or so of trying so hard to not look down on other people, for any reason, I see somebody do or say the exact kind of thing I've been trying to stop. Then I think to myself, "Hmm. They should be more humble like me."

And so I'm right back to where I started.

How does one recognize pride in others without being themselves prideful? I honestly don't know the answer to that question.

Bryan

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Hi Bryans_Saturdays,

So, if what you are saying is carried out to it's logical conclusion, God calling someone sinful would that make Him prideful? Why or why not?

Thanks,

Dr. T

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<div class='quotemain'>

Thank Goodness that you are not judgemental like all those other hypocrits you've condemned because they don't measure up to your standards..

Did you keep reading, Snow? To quote myself:

Yes. You have pointed out one of the sticky points of the pride vs. humility ballance. I'm on a personal quest to be more humble and less judgemental. So after a year or so of trying so hard to not look down on other people, for any reason, I see somebody do or say the exact kind of thing I've been trying to stop. Then I think to myself, "Hmm. They should be more humble like me."

And so I'm right back to where I started.

How does one recognize pride in others without being themselves prideful? I honestly don't know the answer to that question.

Bryan

No. I didn't keep reading. I saw a judgemental person complaining about judgemental people and that's when I wrote my post. If you are really on a quest to be less judgemental, then you might want to avoid passing so much judgement. Till then your protestations are a bit hollow.

I don't mind judgementality. Actually - I'm a fan but you oughtn't be hypocrital about it.

Of course your god is prideful. He's also jealous, spiteful, occasionally benevelent, and has a phobia of wood and stone carvings.

ReAlLy?

Instead of telling T. what kind of God he believes in, why don't you ask him and let him say himself. It's ever so much more accurate that way.

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<div class='quotemain'>

Of course your god is prideful. He's also jealous, spiteful, occasionally benevelent, and has a phobia of wood and stone carvings.

ReAlLy?

Instead of telling T. what kind of God he believes in, why don't you ask him and let him say himself. It's ever so much more accurate that way.

Good point. If T's god is anything like the god(s) described by the Bible, then I stand by my comment. Otherwise, my apologies.

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<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Of course your god is prideful. He's also jealous, spiteful, occasionally benevelent, and has a phobia of wood and stone carvings.

ReAlLy?

Instead of telling T. what kind of God he believes in, why don't you ask him and let him say himself. It's ever so much more accurate that way.

Good point. If T's god is anything like the god(s) described by the Bible, then I stand by my comment. Otherwise, my apologies.

What you (and many of us) are doing it defining another's beliefs in a way that defies thei self-understanding. I think what you'll find is that T. (or someone else) believes in the God of the OT but does not believe that such a Glod is spiteful and prideful, etc. They may not be able to explain all the context and details and significance of the OT writings and maybe that means that their beliefs APPEAR to be problematic but one needn't have a perfect understanding in order to have valid faith.

I myself believe in the same God of the OT. I just don't think the OT writers had a perfect understanding of God.

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I strongly believe that LDS are closeminded and judgemental at times

Is that all bad? I don't think so. We have to have a separation line between ourselves and the world. That will probably be a little different for each of us depending on our individual experiences.

We have to judge for ourselves what is right and wrong..........................

For ourselves, each of us personally.

Not for others, in or out of the church.

This is what sends the message that "we" are closed minded and judgmental.

JMHO, not a message any of would consciously care to project.

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What does it mean to be "closeminded" about something? Should I be "open" to any and all thoughts?

What if I came to know the truth about an issue. Should I think that what I know might be wrong?

If I say that I know 2 + 2 = 4, should I be open to the possibility that that's not true?

I think I am open until I know the truth about an issue, and from then on that issue is then closed.

At least to me. If I didn't know, I would be open to some input, from someone who really thinks they might know.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What does it mean to be "judgmental" about something? Should I not make any judgments about anything?

What if I came to know the truth about an issue. Should I think that what I know might be wrong?

If I say that I know 2 + 2 = 4, should I be "open" to the possibility that that's not true?

I think I am open until I know the truth about an issue, and from then on that issue is then closed.

At least to me. If I didn't know, I would be open to some input, from someone who really thinks they might know.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think there is nothing at all wrong with being "closeminded" or "judgmental"... as long as I know what is true.

If you think that is wrong and want to make a judgement against me... you can be open to any thought you want to think.

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Sorry guys but I'm the BEST at being humble. :) I always have been.

I used to think that I was humble, but I was informed that I simply had accurately assessed my limitations. :tinfoil:

Of course your god is prideful. He's also jealous, spiteful, occasionally benevelent, and has a phobia of wood and stone carvings.

With the minor exception that He's right. B)

What does it mean to be "closeminded" about something? Should I be "open" to any and all thoughts?

What if I came to know the truth about an issue.

Ray, if you are right, then the only obligation you have (to be considered humble) is to let the speaker finish speaking before you inform him/her that s/he's wrong. :idea:

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Ray, if you are right, then the only obligation you have (to be considered humble) is to let the speaker finish speaking before you inform him/her that s/he's wrong. :idea:

Are you done yet?

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Ray -

An honest question..... if a fundamentalist practioner of Islam were to say the samething, in support of some the more extreme things done in the name of that religion, couldn't they make the exact same logical argument that you make?

FWIW, this is not as much the strawman argument as it first may seem. It is only a perceived strawman argument because your (our) culture, and (your) faith, doesn't (usually) go to such extremes. But the 'logic' of the justification is almost identical.

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