Question about temple sealing and temple divorce.

[Gwen]

Not an unpardonable sin, but it is part of where you have been. You have to remember that the crowning blessing and goal of this life is that sealing covenant. Not keeping that covenant is a big deal and not to be taken lightely. God takes the breaking of a sealing covenant very seriously, no matter how common it becomes, it has always been and will always be significant. It's not just "tracking past mistakes". What if someone were to divorce and then get resealed. Once ok. Maybe twice.... A third time?... A fourth?.... How will you know someone made a mistake or two and learned and is doing better vs a serial sealer (lol does that description work?) if you don't keep a note that it has happened before. I can't see the first presidency wanting to approve a 5th sealing for someone that has been divorced 4 times... but how will they know that if they don't keep a record of the past.

I fully expect my husband, as much as I want to forget it happened, to be questioned at the judgment about his marriage to his first wife. If he is innocent of wrong doing then it will be found but being innocent doesn't mean the questions won't be asked. He will have to account for that seperate of anything to do with me. Why should I expect the leadership of the church to be any different?

Your friend needs to do some serious praying, she is letting fear get in the way of revelation. And yes I feel comfortable saying that because I too had those same concerns and questions. Until I had an answer I was satisfied with I would not marry my husband, because of that fear. What if I do "all the work" and then die, she gets worthy and never marries and at the judgment she tries to claim "first wife" because of that sealing.

When my stake president was explaing things to me one thing he told me...

If the records department of the church burned down tomorrow, all the records gone. No trace, no back up's, it's gone. Does that make your baptism null and void? Does that make all the ordinances performed gone? Do sealings have to be reperformed? Absolutely not. All those things are in tact. The records of the church are for the church, they are for this life and to keep order. Nothing more. God does not need a sheet of paper to know who had covenanted and kept those covenants. The same is true in reverse. Have a notation on the paperwork doesn't make anything sealed in heaven. They can write whatever they want on the papers. In the end God knows what did and did not happen. He knows who did and did not keep their covenants.

Unless he and the ex get remarried and live a covenant marriage they can never have claim upon the blessings of the sealing (the blessing being an eternal marriage). If the ex makes herself worthy of that blessing it will not be with her ex husband. You can not and will not be asked to live a higher law (eternal marriage) when you could not keep the lower law (this life marriage).

The answer to her fears is in the most basic of doctrines. Even still, when we are emotionally involved, we need someone to point them out. If you have pointed them out and she still can't see it then she is letting fear blind her. There isn't much more you can do until she is ready to seek an answer in faith, actually listening.

I do feel for her, I've been there. I don't know how to better comfort and explain it to her than I have explained it to you.

[classylady]

I agree that we will not be forced to be with someone, such as an ex spouse, in the next life. But, if the sealing is still intact, and all has been forgiven of one another, and all will love one another in the Celestial Kingdom, what would stop the first wife from being with her ex husband if that is what she desires and that is what he desires too? Their marriage didn't work out during their lifetime, but is it possible that after all is forgiven, that they could want to be together in the next life? It's my understanding that they could possibly be together in the next life, if they so choose.

[Gwen]

I would say the opinion of the frist* wife would have a say in what they decided. Once a man is sealed to more than on woman it is no longer a decision between the two ppl, it's a decision for everyone impacted by it.

*first wife being the one who went through this life's trials and died worthy of the eternal marriage first... not cronological order of sealing.

All that being said if at the end of judgement my husband and his ex decided they both wanted each other I would probably tell them to be happy and ask to be with someone else. I have no desire to spend eternity with her, if what she did to him in this life is more valuable to him than what I have done they deserve each other..... but then if we have those attitudes we probably won't be judged worthy of the eternal blessing of a marriage anyway and it won't be something to worry about. lol

[Seminarysnoozer]

I fully expect my husband, as much as I want to forget it happened, to be questioned at the judgment about his marriage to his first wife. If he is innocent of wrong doing then it will be found but being innocent doesn't mean the questions won't be asked. He will have to account for that seperate of anything to do with me. Why should I expect the leadership of the church to be any different?

Your friend needs to do some serious praying, she is letting fear get in the way of revelation. And yes I feel comfortable saying that because I too had those same concerns and questions. Until I had an answer I was satisfied with I would not marry my husband, because of that fear. What if I do "all the work" and then die, she gets worthy and never marries and at the judgment she tries to claim "first wife" because of that sealing.

When my stake president was explaing things to me one thing he told me...

If the records department of the church burned down tomorrow, all the records gone. No trace, no back up's, it's gone. Does that make your baptism null and void? Does that make all the ordinances performed gone? Do sealings have to be reperformed? Absolutely not. All those things are in tact. The records of the church are for the church, they are for this life and to keep order. Nothing more. God does not need a sheet of paper to know who had covenanted and kept those covenants. The same is true in reverse. Have a notation on the paperwork doesn't make anything sealed in heaven. They can write whatever they want on the papers. In the end God knows what did and did not happen. He knows who did and did not keep their covenants.

Thank you. I appreciate your answer, I was away for a while sorry I didn't respond quickly.

Aren't there some things that are "accounted" for in this life. As an example, if someone repents the correct way, they still have to account for it in the next life? I thought the act would be erased from the record so to speak, as white as snow. Do we really believe that or not?

If the person is worthy enough to go through it a second time, temple marriage, what sin did they leave unrepentant? And if they did leave a sin unrepentant that would have precluded them from going through with another marriage then I suppose that second marriage is not valid.

Assuming the second marriage is valid and right in the Lords eyes as suggested by letting them go through with that covenant, I still don't see the need for temporal accounting of that previous marriage.

Interestingly, my great grandfather was a second husband sealed in the temple (his first marriage) to my great grandmother whose first husband died young and they had no children together. Will my great grandfather not be sealed to my great grandmother? ... maybe too much of a tangent.

[Madriglace]

The Lords House is a house of order ... having the designation on his records that he was previoulsly sealed is there because he was ... no big mystery. It will all work out in the end under the direction of an all wise and loving Heavenly Father.

[Gwen]

Thank you. I appreciate your answer, I was away for a while sorry I didn't respond quickly.

Aren't there some things that are "accounted" for in this life. As an example, if someone repents the correct way, they still have to account for it in the next life? I thought the act would be erased from the record so to speak, as white as snow. Do we really believe that or not? .

In my opinion.... Some things are erased. Everything won't be, some we will have to account for even after we repented. Being sealed and breaking that covenant is a big deal. One of the main reasons for this life is to have an eternal family. The sealing is the crowning ordinance of the gospel. To think we can break such a covenant lightly is to fool ourselves. We will have to give a full accounting of our marriage(s) and how we treated our children.

If the person is worthy enough to go through it a second time, temple marriage, what sin did they leave unrepentant? And if they did leave a sin unrepentant that would have precluded them from going through with another marriage then I suppose that second marriage is not valid.

Assuming the second marriage is valid and right in the Lords eyes as suggested by letting them go through with that covenant, I still don't see the need for temporal accounting of that previous marriage.

Anyone that has been in a marriage for more than a few yrs knows the kind of baggage we carry around. The more marriages a person has typically the larger their baggage is. A person can do all the things needed to be worthy and then have relapses, slip ups, or even all new mistakes that stem from that baggage.

Interestingly, my great grandfather was a second husband sealed in the temple (his first marriage) to my great grandmother whose first husband died young and they had no children together. Will my great grandfather not be sealed to my great grandmother? ... maybe too much of a tangent.

let me see if I followed lol Your GGfather was sealed to your GGmother.... She was a widow.... sealed to the first husband? If they were sealed and they lived a covenant marriage (only they and the lord will really know that, things can go on in marriages no one knows about) then they will have opportunity to have claim upon those blessings in the next life.

[classylady]

One reason it may say "previously sealed" on the church records is as a "flag" during temple recommend interviews that all child support/alimony payments are current. Isn't that a requirement for a temple recommend?

My impression is that this Sister has some insecurity issues with her husband. The fact is, he's been sealed before. And it sounds like she is having a difficult time facing that fact. There will be other times in their marriage when that fact is going to surface, like it or not. For example, in the genealogy records the first wife is listed, not the subsequent wife/s. Also, if I remember correctly, it seems like with our mortgage my husband had to show his divorce decree.

[Gwen]

Yes, being current on child support etc is part of the recommend interview.

It comes up a lot. We just finished sending a copy of the custody order to the insurance company. They required proof that we are required by law to provide health insurance for my stepson or they would have kicked him off the policy.

[Seminarysnoozer]

*first wife being the one who went through this life's trials and died worthy of the eternal marriage first... not cronological order of sealing.

l

I missed this the first read through for some reason. Can you tell me where you got that information. This is very interesting and will likely be comforting to my friend.

[Gwen]

I missed this the first read through for some reason. Can you tell me where you got that information. This is very interesting and will likely be comforting to my friend.

Unfortunately there is no quick reference easy answer for your friend on this. It's something I have learned because I've struggled over the same questions. It comes from searching and pondering over the basics... trying to gain understanding of the nature of god, covenants vs promises, justice vs mercy, what being sealed means, understanding marriage, etc.

It's been awhile so I had to look back at the previous posts.... the statement I was responding to (though I didn't quote it in my response lol).... some bold added...

I agree that we will not be forced to be with someone, such as an ex spouse, in the next life. But, if the sealing is still intact, and all has been forgiven of one another, and all will love one another in the Celestial Kingdom, what would stop the first wife from being with her ex husband if that is what she desires and that is what he desires too? Their marriage didn't work out during their lifetime, but is it possible that after all is forgiven, that they could want to be together in the next life? It's my understanding that they could possibly be together in the next life, if they so choose.

my thoughts to that....

I would say the opinion of the frist* wife would have a say in what they decided. Once a man is sealed to more than on woman it is no longer a decision between the two ppl, it's a decision for everyone impacted by it.

*first wife being the one who went through this life's trials and died worthy of the eternal marriage first... not chronological order of sealing.

All that being said if at the end of judgement my husband and his ex decided they both wanted each other I would probably tell them to be happy and ask to be with someone else. I have no desire to spend eternity with her, if what she did to him in this life is more valuable to him than what I have done they deserve each other..... but then if we have those attitudes we probably won't be judged worthy of the eternal blessing of a marriage anyway and it won't be something to worry about. lol

The situation classylady proposed isn't unthinkable. In my opinion I don't see the odds being to great of it happening. In fact I used to think that of my parents. They had a horrible marriage. I was aware of that fact most of my life. I used to think, "if they can just stay married, endure to the end.. one day, on the other side, they will be perfected. They will love each other again and things will be fine because it will be a marriage between perfect ppl, not like here...." A little different situation but I think the same idea as classylady.

In trying to explain my thinking it will probably get long and I probably won't do the best job. I can promise I will jump around. So I will apologize in advance for it. lol

First you need to consider what builds a strong marriage. What makes anything strong? Why did we come here? For opposition. Adversity builds strength. It weeds out the week and leaves only the strong. That's the test of this life, to do what is right in the face of opposition. Talk to any older couple that has been married to the same person over half their life what makes them survive, who they are.... it's having overcome together.

What is the crowning ordinance of the gospel? What is the crowning glory of exaltation? What is the one thing that we strive for? We want to be like god, we want all he has. The sealing is what sets that apart. Marriage is the one thing the exalted will have that no other will get. That is the ultimate goal. Only the elect will receive that glory. Only the strongest will be there. How do you weed out and find the strongest, the best of the best, the most righteous, etc? Opposition. Marriage is hard, it has to be. Only those who can survive and do it with Christlike love toward each other will make it. Just staying (as I thought with my parents) isn't enough. Going to the temple isn't enough. You must live a covenant marriage. Divorce does not count as living a covenant marriage. You may be forgiven of the sins committed but that does not change that you did not go through this life, through opposition together. You didn't get strong, you didn't become one, you didn't learn Christlike love for each other. That is not a relationship that will earn eternity (not as one that receives the preferential treatment of a "first wife" in the context we have been using it).

God is just. Justice demands that if you didn't keep your first estate you can not have the second. So if you have a man that was sealed, divorced, and sealed again. The second wife is the one that became strong with him, the one that survived the opposition, etc. No just God would give the "wife" that bailed and abandoned him preferential treatment over the second. Thus my comment of if that is really what my husband and his ex wanted I'd be out the door. If the cruel things she did became of greater value than my standing at his side come hell or high water then I don't want to be with him. I also doubt such attitudes would make any of us worthy of an eternal marriage.

The judgement will happen. Justice will rule. The person that stood at your side and you struggled with will be the one there. That is your eternal partner if you are both worthy. Surviving opposition is what makes you as one, being with that person first and foremost is just. It serves justice.

God is also merciful. He has promised after all you can do. If you do the best you can, repent, etc and in the end are found worthy of an eternal partner you will have that opportunity. That is a promise (which brings in classylady's proposed situation). Mercy can not rob justice. If it is decided that you will be with the one you "already had a sealing with" then that will be up to the couple, the two that became as one. Mercy and justice can and will co exist, we have been promised that. If it didn't the atonement would have been in vain.

I know I haven't done a good job communicating my thoughts that build up to the comment I made. I find most my answers when I take the basic principles of the gospel and then ask myself how they apply to the situation that is being struggled with.... Do they fit in the basics? Is justice served? Is mercy served? Does that answer fit with what I know of god? Does the spirit speak peace when I ponder it?

Sorry I can't give you something more simple. lol