bjw Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 I had a two quick questions. Is breaking traffic laws cause for losing your temple recommend? We had a situation where my grandmother and cousin were gone picking up medicine for me while I was at home recovering from surgery. My grandmother began having side effects from her meds and couldn't drive anymore, so she let my cousin, who has no license but is going to take the test and get them next week. He has never before had a drivers license. They were driving down the main road and pulled over by a cop for no headlights. The cop charged my cousin with a misdemeanor and indicated on the ticket that he would have to appear in court. We are planning to have the charge dropped from a misdemeanor to an infraction because of the circumstances, so he can avoid jail time. My questions are: Will we lose temple priviledges when the church finds out? Also, is it appropriate to ask a member of the ward that is an attorney for advice? I understand that the advice given on the boards is not intended to be how the church handles all situations, but you guys have always gave me good advice, so I'd like to know in your general experience what might happen. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 The Lord and His servants should judge righteously based on the heart... not necessarily a "charge". Was it his intention to continuously drive a car without a license to do so? These are very different circumstances... and they probably could've called a cab? An attorney in the ward cannot give you a legal opinion on a spiritual matter. I wouldn't worry about your temple recommend. This isn't like you were caught dealing drugs or anything that was more of a moral crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted August 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 The Lord and His servants should judge righteously based on the heart... not necessarily a "charge". Was it his intention to continuously drive a car without a license to do so? These are very different circumstances... and they probably could've called a cab?An attorney in the ward cannot give you a legal opinion on a spiritual matter.I wouldn't worry about your temple recommend. This isn't like you were caught dealing drugs or anything that was more of a moral crime. Thanks for the response. He wasn't planning to do it all the time, and they ran out of money and couldn't take a cab. It was kinda a spur of the moment decision that resulted in an error in thinking. If they had it to do over again they probably would have done something different.The attorney part was for legal and not spiritual advice, so would that change things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Well it doesn't change anything regarding a temple recommend. It might be helpful to convey the intention of the circumstances and get things better for your cousin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartan117 Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 The only thing I would like to comment on is the attorney part of your dilemma. And the court stuff. I have no clue if that will be cause to lose a recommend or any of that, but as far as asking a ward member for legal advise, I think it would depend on your relationship with that person. If you know them well and feel comfortable confiding in them as a friend, yes. If you want to ask strictly on a professional level and you don't know this member very well, what I would recommend is going to your bishop and seeing if he can introduce you to someone who can help. He may approach that member or someone else entirely but I would trust your bishop to find the right person to help you out or answer questions. In essence, you're asking this attorney to work for free. And if you aren't close with this person then there could be an issue regarding that. Or of him talking to someone about your situation who you don't want to involve. Confidentiality could become tricky. Let your bishop figure this out for you. Hope this helps, and best of luck. Also your cousin will not end up in jail if he has no record. Even if he did, they will just fine him. They absolutely will not send him to jail over this. Trust me, I lived a very colorful life before joining the church. I won't go into details, just trust me that I know what I'm talking about right now. They will plead this down and your cousin will get a fine at best and he may be delayed in getting his license now. Let your bishop know ASAP as well. Don't wait. Let him know you all learned your lesson and your life of crime is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) Is breaking traffic laws cause for losing your temple recommend? We had a situation where...That's a good question to ask the Bishop(s) of those involved.In essence, you're asking this attorney to work for free. There can also be concerns of How to Avoid the Surprise Attorney-Client Relationship. People think, "What a jerk, I just had a quick question." but as a profession lawyers can get burned by answering such quick questions. Maybe if JAG wanders in he can talk about the issue from a personal perspective but it's something I suspect a lot of people don't consider. Obviously, if you're seeking to talk to someone in the ward about them being your (or someone's) lawyer that's not an issue, but a lot of people seem to want to talk to lawyers not in an effort to establish them as their paid attorney but in the, "I just have a few quick questions for you" sense. Edited August 20, 2011 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 I would think that if a traffic ticket is cause for cancellation of a temple recommend, there would be very few that would be worthy of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Will we lose temple priviledges when the church finds out?Who is "we"? Do you mean your grandma? You? Your cousin? Who are the recommend holders here?But to answer your question: The church is not our mommy. We don't get put in time out when our bishop catches us with our hand in the cookie jar. Access to the temple isn't like a cell phone that we get taken away if they catch us texting over our limit. Temple covenants are made by people with (hopefully) a measure of maturity and an understanding of the nature of the covenants. If keeping one of the covenants is in question, or if one's worthiness is in question, it is between that person and the Lord. The Bishop is available as an earthly representative of the Lord to assist in such matters.Also, is it appropriate to ask a member of the ward that is an attorney for advice?Asking ward members for free help from their skillset or career can be a touchy thing. There are lots of members who love to share their skills and knowledge with their fellow saints for free. There are also some members who don't really think that handing out what they do for a living for free, is that great of an idea. I suppose the answer lies in which kind of person the attorney in the ward is.FWIW, the last two speeding tickets in our family, we hired an LDS attorney. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) Asking ward members for free help from their skillset or career can be a touchy thing. There are lots of members who love to share their skills and knowledge with their fellow saints for free. There are also some members who don't really think that handing out what they do for a living for free, is that great of an idea. I suppose the answer lies in which kind of person the attorney in the ward is.Thank you.Also - just because someone's "an attorney" doesn't mean they practice in the particular field of law necessary to answer your question.Best thing to do is ask the attorney if he knows someone who does ______ law for a reasonable price. If he's able/willing to help you himself, you've provided him an opportunity to make the offer without conveying a sense of obligation/entitlement/guilt. Edited August 20, 2011 by Just_A_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) Thank you.Also - just because someone's "an attorney" doesn't mean they practice in the particular field of law necessary to answer your question.Best thing to do is ask the attorney if he knows someone who does ______ law for a reasonable price. If he's able/willing to help you himself, you've provided him an opportunity to make the offer without conveying a sense of obligation/entitlement/guilt.You know, that's probably not bad advice to be applied to other professions where it isn't immediately apparent what you are asking is up their alley (for instance a computer guru who codes may not set up home networks) or if they're into providing free/discount help of that nature*.* If you aren't looking for a discount/service from them I'd be inclined to just call them during regular business hours and proceed like any other customer. Edited August 20, 2011 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 You know, that's probably not bad advice to be applied to other professions where it isn't immediately apparent what you are asking is up their alley (for instance a computer guru who codes may not set up networks home network) or if they're into providing free/discount help of that nature*.I have no problem in helping people if I can/have the time, however it bothers me when I am expected to do it for free just because the other person is a member. I think it's important to approach the person directly and be straightforward about what is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGStacker Posted August 20, 2011 Report Share Posted August 20, 2011 Dude he will not be going to jail for this and you will not lose your recommend. Don't over analyze or worry about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted August 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Thanks to everyone who answered about this. I definitely feel a lot better about it now, and you've definitely gave me some good advice about seeking council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rameumptom Posted August 22, 2011 Report Share Posted August 22, 2011 Church usually does not get involved in misdemeanors, especially traffic violations. It does get involved regarding felonies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Very few traffic violations are anything other then infractions. What was he charged with and in what state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searching_For_The_Truth Posted August 30, 2011 Report Share Posted August 30, 2011 is it appropriate to ask a member of the ward that is an attorney for advice?QUOTE]I know a member of my Ward that gives advice, infact he said he tends to spend a few hours on Saturdays in the Law Library helping members of the Ward/Stake. It really will come down to the member if he is "comfortable" with giving leagal advice, but I don't see why he/she wopuldn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjw Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Very few traffic violations are anything other then infractions. What was he charged with and in what state? Misdemeanor driving w/o a license in California.To give a brief update to the situation, we confided in a member of the ward that is friends with a retired judge that is a member, so he's going to get the advice we need for us. Thanks to everyone who contrributed to the thread so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayne Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 I would think that if a traffic ticket is cause for cancellation of a temple recommend, there would be very few that would be worthy of one.this loli think the threat of jail time or time in jail are the things that youd have to worry about. not traffic tickets. i know from personal experience until the threat of me going to jail(dont ask) was cleared even though i was getting it expunged i still had to wait for it to clear where as no one seemed to care about traffic tickets.if theres no threat of jail time i probably wouldnt worry too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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