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lds2

7 Years of Lean - Are We In Them Now?

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A year or two ago I heard a stake president in his testimony tell us that at the regional leadership conference he had attended a general authority referenced President Hinckley's talk from 1998 regarding Pharaoh's Dream, the stormy weather ahead, and the need to have our houses in order. Then he asked them how many in attendance now wished that they had hearkened to President Hinckley’s words? Why does that matter? Because President Hinckley talked how he couldn't get it out of his mind...for years...

The first time President Hinckley mentioned Pharaoh’s dream was in 1998 when he said, “I wish to speak to you about temporal matters. As a backdrop for what I wish to say, I read to you a few verses from the 41st chapter of Genesis where Pharaoh, the ruler of Egypt, dreamed dreams which greatly troubled him...‘And I saw in my dream…seven ears came up in one stalk, full and good: And, behold, seven ears, withered, thin, and blasted with the east wind, sprung up after them.’ Then Joseph’s interpretation, ’Behold, there come seven years of great plenty throughout all the land of Egypt: And there shall arise after them seven years of famine. . . And God will shortly bring it to pass’ (Gen. 41:20, 26, 30, 32). Now, brethren, I want to make it very clear that I am not prophesying, that I am not predicting years of famine in the future. But I am suggesting that the time has come to get our houses in order…There is a portent of stormy weather ahead to which we had better give heed...That’s all I have to say about it, but I wish to say it with all the emphasis of which I am capable.” A portent means something of prophetic or ominous significance. President Hinckley also spoke of the fragile economy, how people are living off of their borrowings instead of earnings and how paying interest is financial bondage. He said that he hoped that there wouldn’t be a depression…twice, but then said he was concerned about all the debt our members are carrying. He talked about how Elder Faust paid off his mortgage quickly, and how content that has made him.

President Hinckley again referenced Pharaoh’s dream just weeks after the 9/11 terrorist attack in his talk, “The Times In Which We Live.” Pres. Hinckley said, “The economy is particularly vulnerable. We have been counseled again and again concerning self-reliance, concerning debt, concerning thrift. So many of our people are heavily in debt for things that are not entirely necessary.” Then he talked about getting a modest home and paying it off as quickly as possible. He said, “We cannot provide against every contingency. But we can provide against many contingencies. Let the present situation remind us that this we should do. As we have been continuously counseled for more than 60 years, let us have some food set aside that would sustain us for a time in case of need…” He then referenced Pharaoh’s dream when he said, “I do not know what the future holds. I do not wish to sound negative, but I wish to remind you of the warnings of scripture and the teachings of the prophets which we have had constantly before us. I cannot forget the great lesson of Pharaoh’s dream of the fat and lean kine and of the full and withered stalks of corn. I cannot dismiss from my mind the grim warnings of the Lord as set forth in the 24th chapter of Matthew. I am familiar, as are you, with the declarations of modern revelation that the time will come when the earth will be cleansed and there will be indescribable distress, with weeping and mourning and lamentation (see D&C 112:24). Now, I do not wish to be an alarmist. I do not wish to be a prophet of doom.”

Said President Hinckley in October Conference in 2005, “What [calamities] we have experienced in the past was all foretold, and the end is not yet. Just as there have been calamities in the past, we expect more in the future. What do we do? Someone has said it was not raining when Noah built the ark. But he built it, and the rains came…We can heed warnings…the best storehouse is the family storeroom. In words of revelation the Lord has said, ‘Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing’ (D&C 109:8 ). Our people for three-quarters of a century have been counseled and encouraged to make such preparation as will assure survival should a calamity come. We can set aside some water, basic food, medicine, and clothing to keep us warm. We ought to have a little money laid aside in case of a rainy day…” This talk was given exactly seven years from the date that President Hinckley first gave (as I call it) his “seven years of plenty talk.” In it he again mentioned the dream of Pharaoh when he said, “Let us never lose sight of the dream of Pharaoh concerning the fat cattle and the lean, the full ears of corn and the blasted ears, the meaning of which was interpreted by Joseph to indicate years of plenty and years of scarcity.”

President Eyring told us, “In our own time we have been warned with counsel on where to find safety...One of the keys to recognizing those warnings is that they are repeated.” President Hinckley mentioned pharaoh’s dream repeatedly.

It is interesting to note what was happening in Egypt during those “years of famine.” In Genesis 47:15 it says, “And when money failed in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, all the Egyptians came unto Joseph, and said, Give us bread for why should we die in thy presence? for the money faileth.” As their money failed they gave the government their remaining assets including their valuables, homes and lands in exchange for food and shelter. Eventually the people were gathered together and became slaves.

Edited by lds2

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I heard Pres Hinckley give that General Priesthood talk, and it really moved many of us listening to it. Interestingly he warned not of a Great Depression, per se, but hoped we would not suffer another one. Yet, he saw the current economic crash.

That gave LDS about a decade to prepare for this. Those who have, may still have lost a job, etc. However, if they were out of debt, owned a modest home, had food storage, had money stored away, then they were in a much better position than most Americans are now.

Definitely a reason to listen to General Conference, and pay heed to the guidance given.

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Hi lds2,

Just so you know, you are plagarizing one of the posters on this board. He gave this post back as early as 2008. In the future, please put all the stuff you're copying in quotes, and cite your source.

Anyway:

The first time President Hinckley mentioned Pharaoh’s dream was in 1998

...

Said President Hinckley in October Conference in 2005, “[...]Just as there have been calamities in the past, we expect more in the future.” [...] This talk was given exactly seven years from the date that President Hinckley first gave (as I call it) his “seven years of plenty talk.”

The first time I heard that line of reasoning was shortly after the talk in 2005. Used to support the notion that 1998-2005 was the 7 years of plenty, and 2005-2012 would be the 7 years of famine.

Of course, the various things that happened on earth for the "2nd 7 years" didn't ever really reach biblical prophecy levels, so that theory is pretty much discarded nowadays.

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Maybe if we remember that President Hinkley said this, as quoted from the OP

"Now, brethren, I want to make it very clear that I am not prophesying, that I am not predicting years of famine in the future. But I am suggesting that the time has come to get our houses in order…There is a portent of stormy weather ahead to which we had better give heed...That’s all I have to say about it, but I wish to say it with all the emphasis of which I am capable.”

My own father could see the very same problems building that President Hinkley saw. Countless people saw the same things, and also offered voices of warning.

What I got from those talks was that we have been told to live in a prepared manner for quite a while, and yet too many of us aren't doing so. We're too busy living for now, rather than preparing for future events. For example, my younger sister and her husband had to live off of their saved money and food storage while he was out of work, nearly a year.

The great calamities the prophets have been warning us about don't need to be world-wide in impact in order to throw our personal lives into chaos. How many members have faced foreclosure on a large home they didn't need and couldn't afford? How many members have had cars reposessed that they didn't need and couldn't afford? How many members lived off of their credit, rather than their actual income?

Finally, how many of us really do try to heed the warnings and prepare ahead of time for temporal problems?

We've delayed long enough, and now that the problems are becoming more and more widespread, how many of us would be in far better shape financially had we simply heeded the warnings all along? It turns out God really does know what's going on and how to survive the troubles of life.

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Maybe if we remember that President Hinkley said this, as quoted from the OP

"Now, brethren, I want to make it very clear that I am not prophesying, that I am not predicting years of famine in the future. But I am suggesting that the time has come to get our houses in order…There is a portent of stormy weather ahead to which we had better give heed...That’s all I have to say about it, but I wish to say it with all the emphasis of which I am capable.”

It doesn't take a prophet to understand the business cycle or know what just as we have gone through regular recessions in the past, so will we in the future.

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I don't think you can plagiarize something you wrote?..and this is just an excerpt of the original which is still timely to this discussion.

For those that believe in a more literal fulfilment it could be 1998-2005 (feast) 2005-2012 (lean) or Oct 2001-2008 (feast) 2008-2015 (lean). Since President Hinckley said that he was not prophecying in 1998 but did not make that statement in 2001 and the problems in the economy became very apparent in 2008...if this is a literal prophecy (which I am NOT saying it is) that would be my best guess for the feast/famine years.

My point in posting was not really to debate literal years, but to point out that we have been warned for many years and it does appear that we are in the economic "storm" prophecied now...and I would guess that things will get worse before they get better as we may be only 3-6 years into this "storm".

.

Edited by lds2

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I tend to agree with the fact that it will get a lot worse before Christ comes to AOA. I studied those quotes by Hinckley in 1998, 2001 and I think the next was in 2005. It appeared the first one was a warning or heads up, the second was ok, it has begun and the third one was the next warning of the next phase which seemed to begin in 2008.

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I don't think it's going to get easier. If you study the scriptures, particularly cross referencing all things relating to signs of the times and secret combinations, if you study history and you understand current events you will know that all of this has been prophesied, much of it in detail. But the most important thing to do besides understanding what is happening is being prepared both temporally and spiritually (food storage, provident living, etc to prepare temporally/parable of the ten virgins, parable of the talents and parable of the sheep and goats to prepare spiritually).

In a nutshell, yes we are in a recession. It is caused by very brilliantly wicked men who have conspired to control the economies of nations for hundreds of years now (secret combinations warned of in Ether 8. Moroni was literally talking to us. The Book of Mormon is a handbook, a history of what happened to a civilization that is happening to us here in the US and across the world). They create cycles of booms and depressions on a whim for the sole purpose of getting gain. The church has advised us over and over and over and over again how to prepare (without spelling out/expounding on all the prophecies and secret combinations). There may yet be another boom after inflation if those who control the money decide on another round for their purposes. We'll all be millionaires and a loaf of bread will cost a month's salary (kidding of course).

Members in general do not listen or search the scriptures and look for the Savior. So our leaders, for the most part, remain silent and continue talking about basic gospel principles year after year, general conference after general conference. I made a post about this recently and one forum member basically told me I was "lecturing". The post is now gone and I won't post any more about the subject other than what I am writing on my Ether 8 thread in the General Discussion forum. I will, however, post the link to it to another lds forum/website just in case anyone is interested and wishing to learn more. I hope everyone takes the time to read and ponder it. It is a very good start for anyone who really wants to begin taking responsibility for themselves and their families both spiritually and temporally.

LDS Freedom Forum - View topic - A little reading about last days if you are bored

Edited by skalenfehl

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Say... did you hear that the earth is hollow?

You'll see Snow. Our debt is unsustainable. Mathematically we are done for. When the Fed buys up US bonds, haha, the end for the empire is near. They already had QE2 and QE3 will most likely be announced, indirectly?, this September at the FOMC meeting. No country can just print money without severely damaging the currency. Since the USD is the reserve currency and most currencies are pegged to it, their fate will be the same as ours.

In 2008 we entered a depression. The government stimulated things like a drug user stimulates themselves with more drugs. The stimulus will die off. Gold is reaching record highs because of this fact. It would be well for you to invest all you can into silver. It will be one of the greatest investments of the decade.

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President Hinckley's three warnings he gave over seven years regarding an economic "storm" = hollow Earth?

I'm afraid the following may apply to you...

In the June 2008 Ensign, President Eyring counseled us, “Another fallacy is to believe that the choice to accept or not accept the counsel of prophets is no more than deciding whether to accept good advice and gain its benefits or to stay where we are. But the choice not to take prophetic counsel changes the very ground upon which we stand. That ground becomes more dangerous. The failure to take prophetic counsel lessens our power to take inspired counsel in the future. The best time to have decided to help Noah build the ark was the first time he asked. Each time he asked after that, each failure to respond would have lessened sensitivity to the Spirit. And so each time his request would have seemed more foolish, until the rain came. And then it was too late.”

The door of the ark was closed to those who had been the mockers but once the rains began were seeking entrance, the door was closed to the five foolish virgins who could have had a bit of "oil" put aside but never thought they would need it. So…if the door were closed for any reason would you be safely locked in or among those that were locked out?

***

I'm sure this will seem like "preaching" or "lecturing" to those that mock often...sorry about that, it is not my intention to offend...

.

Edited by lds2

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You'll see Snow. Our debt is unsustainable. Mathematically we are done for. When the Fed buys up US bonds, haha, the end for the empire is near. They already had QE2 and QE3 will most likely be announced, indirectly?, this September at the FOMC meeting. No country can just print money without severely damaging the currency. Since the USD is the reserve currency and most currencies are pegged to it, their fate will be the same as ours.

In 2008 we entered a depression. The government stimulated things like a drug user stimulates themselves with more drugs. The stimulus will die off. Gold is reaching record highs because of this fact. It would be well for you to invest all you can into silver. It will be one of the greatest investments of the decade.

There well may come the time very soon when gold, even silver or any money will be worthless. The church will become the light and beacon of all who seek to be fed when money won't buy food. I agree that investing in metals is fine for now, but convert that money over to food storage and necessities. They will be of greatest worth when the church calls its own to feed their neighbors. Then is when the church's resources and that of its members (and their charity) will truly be put to the test.

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You'll see Snow. Our debt is unsustainable. Mathematically we are done for. When the Fed buys up US bonds, haha, the end for the empire is near. They already had QE2 and QE3 will most likely be announced, indirectly?, this September at the FOMC meeting. No country can just print money without severely damaging the currency. Since the USD is the reserve currency and most currencies are pegged to it, their fate will be the same as ours.

In 2008 we entered a depression. The government stimulated things like a drug user stimulates themselves with more drugs. The stimulus will die off. Gold is reaching record highs because of this fact. It would be well for you to invest all you can into silver. It will be one of the greatest investments of the decade.

Okay - so here's the question. Do you think that I will take geology lessons, let alone economics lessons, from someone who thinks the earth is hollow and believes that the way to prove it is through the Bible?

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It doesn't take a prophet to understand the business cycle or know what just as we have gone through regular recessions in the past, so will we in the future.

If you had taken the time to read the next line in my post, you'd already know that I agree with your statement. Way to be thorough.

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Brigham Young...

"But pause for a moment, and suppose you had millions of bushels to sell, and could sell it for twenty dollars per bushel, or for a million dollars per bushel, no matter what amount, so that you sell all your wheat, and transport it out of the country, and you are left with nothing more than a pile of gold, what good would it do you? You could not eat it, drink it, wear it, or carry it off where you could have something to eat."

"The time will come that gold will hold no comparison in value to a bushel of wheat. Gold is not to be compared with it in value. Why would it be precious to you now? Simply because you could get gold for it? Gold is good for nothing, only as men value it. It is no better than a piece of iron, a piece of limestone, or a piece of sandstone, and it is not half so good as the soil from which we raise our wheat, and other necessaries of life. The children of men love it, they lust after it, are greedy for it, and are ready to destroy themselves, and those around them, over whom they have any influence, to gain it.” (Journal of Discourses, 1:, p.250).

If for any reason there was a sustained bank holiday, gold and silver would probably not be as high up on the barter system as food, toilet paper, gas, etc...FWIW

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Being self reliant is so important these days. I JUST wish I had a shop to repair, build and fabricate things that I would other wise not buy. My wife, who can be difficult at times, likes to buy lots of things new. I do not believe in that and it has put a burdon on our marrige.

To be self reliant, means to be buy within your means, or make it your own. I encourage anyone to not be a part of the system if at all possible. Do I need tv? not really. Cable, no! Books, yes..books can be refered to over and over.

BTW, I have been working more but..its still not the same as working constant for one employer. So I have to always sell my self and my skills to some one.

My dream would be to be 90% self reliant. My cousin, is partially like this. She lives a completely different life style. Has chickens, garden and husband works. She hates neighbors and traffic. There nearest neighbor lives a mile away in Grass seed farms. In the mile I walked in the middle of her road with my family from her house, we had three cars pass us. Very much isolated amongst agriculture. But surprisingly, only five miles away from I-5 and a small town. Very simple life. Only thing I did not care for there is the roosters waking me up in the morning.

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A year or two ago I heard a stake president in his testimony tell us that at the regional leadership conference he had attended a general authority referenced President Hinckley's talk from 1998 regarding Pharaoh's Dream, the stormy weather ahead, and the need to have our houses in order. Then he asked them how many in attendance now wished that they had hearkened to President Hinckley’s words? Why does that matter? Because President Hinckley talked how he couldn't get it out of his mind...for years...

The first time President Hinckley mentioned Pharaoh’s dream was in 1998 when he said, “I wish to speak to you about temporal matters. As a backdrop for what I wish to say, I read to you a few verses from the 41st chapter of Genesis where Pharaoh, the ruler of Egypt, dreamed dreams which greatly troubled him...‘And I saw in my dream…seven ears came up in one stalk, full and good: And, behold, seven ears, withered, thin, and blasted with the east wind, sprung up after them.’ Then Joseph’s interpretation, ’Behold, there come seven years of great plenty throughout all the land of Egypt: And there shall arise after them seven years of famine. . . And God will shortly bring it to pass’ (Gen. 41:20, 26, 30, 32). Now, brethren, I want to make it very clear that I am not prophesying, that I am not predicting years of famine in the future. But I am suggesting that the time has come to get our houses in order…There is a portent of stormy weather ahead to which we had better give heed...That’s all I have to say about it, but I wish to say it with all the emphasis of which I am capable.” A portent means something of prophetic or ominous significance. President Hinckley also spoke of the fragile economy, how people are living off of their borrowings instead of earnings and how paying interest is financial bondage. He said that he hoped that there wouldn’t be a depression…twice, but then said he was concerned about all the debt our members are carrying. He talked about how Elder Faust paid off his mortgage quickly, and how content that has made him.

President Hinckley again referenced Pharaoh’s dream just weeks after the 9/11 terrorist attack in his talk, “The Times In Which We Live.” Pres. Hinckley said, “The economy is particularly vulnerable. We have been counseled again and again concerning self-reliance, concerning debt, concerning thrift. So many of our people are heavily in debt for things that are not entirely necessary.” Then he talked about getting a modest home and paying it off as quickly as possible. He said, “We cannot provide against every contingency. But we can provide against many contingencies. Let the present situation remind us that this we should do. As we have been continuously counseled for more than 60 years, let us have some food set aside that would sustain us for a time in case of need…” He then referenced Pharaoh’s dream when he said, “I do not know what the future holds. I do not wish to sound negative, but I wish to remind you of the warnings of scripture and the teachings of the prophets which we have had constantly before us. I cannot forget the great lesson of Pharaoh’s dream of the fat and lean kine and of the full and withered stalks of corn. I cannot dismiss from my mind the grim warnings of the Lord as set forth in the 24th chapter of Matthew. I am familiar, as are you, with the declarations of modern revelation that the time will come when the earth will be cleansed and there will be indescribable distress, with weeping and mourning and lamentation (see D&C 112:24). Now, I do not wish to be an alarmist. I do not wish to be a prophet of doom.”

Said President Hinckley in October Conference in 2005, “What [calamities] we have experienced in the past was all foretold, and the end is not yet. Just as there have been calamities in the past, we expect more in the future. What do we do? Someone has said it was not raining when Noah built the ark. But he built it, and the rains came…We can heed warnings…the best storehouse is the family storeroom. In words of revelation the Lord has said, ‘Organize yourselves; prepare every needful thing’ (D&C 109:8 ). Our people for three-quarters of a century have been counseled and encouraged to make such preparation as will assure survival should a calamity come. We can set aside some water, basic food, medicine, and clothing to keep us warm. We ought to have a little money laid aside in case of a rainy day…” This talk was given exactly seven years from the date that President Hinckley first gave (as I call it) his “seven years of plenty talk.” In it he again mentioned the dream of Pharaoh when he said, “Let us never lose sight of the dream of Pharaoh concerning the fat cattle and the lean, the full ears of corn and the blasted ears, the meaning of which was interpreted by Joseph to indicate years of plenty and years of scarcity.”

President Eyring told us, “In our own time we have been warned with counsel on where to find safety...One of the keys to recognizing those warnings is that they are repeated.” President Hinckley mentioned pharaoh’s dream repeatedly.

It is interesting to note what was happening in Egypt during those “years of famine.” In Genesis 47:15 it says, “And when money failed in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, all the Egyptians came unto Joseph, and said, Give us bread for why should we die in thy presence? for the money faileth.” As their money failed they gave the government their remaining assets including their valuables, homes and lands in exchange for food and shelter. Eventually the people were gathered together and became slaves.

I don't think that were quite there yet.. but if things keep heading in the direction they are, it will be soon.

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I'd just like to point out, that the church has no plans to feed the hungry, should bad times come. There's some sort of urban myth out there - very pervasive and deep in some circles - that the church owns a gazillion silos full of grain, and massive stockpiles of food that will be used to feed people in widespread or longterm disasters. The church has no such preparations and no such stockpiles and no such plans. We've got canneries to help members store food. The church's efforts on disaster preparadness is totally directed at helping individual families become prepared.

The church is not Egypt, and the Prophet is not pharoah or Joseph. The church as an orgainzation, is not storing food against a time of need. Instead, it urges it's members to prepare every needful thing against times of need.

Now, should big horrible things happen, I'm sure many of us will be helping and providing service and charity and whatnot. We're big on service and helping the poor and needy and whatnot. But we're also big on urging our members not to be poor and needy in the first place. The burden is on us to prepare for our families, not our church to prepare for us.

Current counsel from our leaders is all about self-reliance. It's not about gathering together in companies of fifty, or reinstating the United Order, or any such things.

Provident Living.org

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I figured it out once and to feed all the members of the Church would be around 5 billion pounds of food...and that would be near starvation rations for most of us. When they say repeadtedly say they can't feed us all...I think they mean it.

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I'd just like to point out, that the church has no plans to feed the hungry, should bad times come. There's some sort of urban myth out there - very pervasive and deep in some circles - that the church owns a gazillion silos full of grain, and massive stockpiles of food that will be used to feed people in widespread or longterm disasters. The church has no such preparations and no such stockpiles and no such plans. We've got canneries to help members store food. The church's efforts on disaster preparadness is totally directed at helping individual families become prepared.

The church is not Egypt, and the Prophet is not pharoah or Joseph. The church as an orgainzation, is not storing food against a time of need. Instead, it urges it's members to prepare every needful thing against times of need.

Now, should big horrible things happen, I'm sure many of us will be helping and providing service and charity and whatnot. We're big on service and helping the poor and needy and whatnot. But we're also big on urging our members not to be poor and needy in the first place. The burden is on us to prepare for our families, not our church to prepare for us.

Current counsel from our leaders is all about self-reliance. It's not about gathering together in companies of fifty, or reinstating the United Order, or any such things.

Provident Living.org

The "Mormon Myth" in my area is that food will be "called in" and our ward will "take care of each other" when things get bad...seriously that is what is lovingly said in Sunday School or Sacrament Meeting any time food storage is mentioned. Yet I know that the bishop and others who keep saying that don't have any stored food themselves outside of their cupboards as their wives say the whole topic is "too scary to think about." Only a couple of small families have a bit of longer-term food stored for themselves and there are hundreds of families in our community. How can you share food from an empty cupboard?

The ironic thing is that all the other wards in our stake are suburban bedroom community wards, where at every bishops meeting (so far) one of the bishops tells our bishop something like, "When things get bad, we know the good people of *** won't let us starve." Our valley only produces alfalfa and a few cows and horses...terrible desert soil and very little irrigation water.

There really is an "urban myth" out there that mormon families have stockpiles of food, food is plentiful in the country, the Church has secret silos or food hidden under the gym floor, my neighbors have stockpiled enough to feed their families and share with me and mine, etc.

Was it President Hinckley who said we will "rue the day we thought...?"

Edited by lds2

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