God said that there is none like Him, but why does the LDS teach differently?


TheR0USes
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Isaiah 46:9

"..........I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is NONE LIKE me."

Smith taught that men can become gods. God Himself never taught that though. In fact He said that that will never happen because He said there is NONE like Him. So why is that Smith said otherwise?

Here's a quote from Smith in the Journal Of Discourses.

JD 6:4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844

"Here, then, is eternal life − to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves........................."

Also Brigham Young said that.

JD 3:93, Brigham Young, August 8, 1852

"Man is made an agent to himself before his God; he is organized for the express purpose, that he may become like his master. You recollect one of the Apostle's sayings, that when we see Him, we shall be like Him; and again, we shall become Gods.................."

I come here as a friend. As someone who cares. If I didn't care I would not come here to share this with you.

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Hey! I love the Princess Bride! ;)

We can definitely address that question, but I'd like to ask a question to you:

Are you asking this because you want to know the answer, or because you want to try to bash with heathens?

Feel free to be honest here. If you just want to bash, I'm certain there are those who would love to go mano e mano with you. If you are honestly seeking to understand the scriptures more deeply and are looking for correction, then there are people who with love and humility will show you where the misunderstanding lies.

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If you are honestly seeking to understand the scriptures more deeply and are looking for correction, then there are people who with love and humility will show you where the misunderstanding lies.

Or understanding our understanding of the scriptures. One need not accept our position, or look to accept it to seek to honestly understand it.

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It is easy to take one verse and take it out of context. Jesus quoted Psalms in saying, "ye are gods." Paul wrote that we are the spirit children of God, and are heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ. Paul told us to think as Jesus did, in that it is not robbery to become equal with God. The thing is, we must do it in God's way, and not in our own way.

In Isaiah 46:9, the Lord is not speaking about those who become as He is, but about the idols that the Canaanites were worshiping, such as Baal. For Israel, there is no other God, and none like him among the many gods in the area.

Let's make sure we do not take scripture out of context. Otherwise, you will see that the Bible does not make sense when other verses say just the opposite.

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It is easy to take one verse and take it out of context. Jesus quoted Psalms in saying, "ye are gods." Paul wrote that we are the spirit children of God, and are heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ. Paul told us to think as Jesus did, in that it is not robbery to become equal with God. The thing is, we must do it in God's way, and not in our own way.

In Isaiah 46:9, the Lord is not speaking about those who become as He is, but about the idols that the Canaanites were worshiping, such as Baal. For Israel, there is no other God, and none like him among the many gods in the area.

Let's make sure we do not take scripture out of context. Otherwise, you will see that the Bible does not make sense when other verses say just the opposite.

Few Christians know much about Baal even though the "gospel" and worship of Baal was quite popular in ancient Israel. Baal was purported to be the part mortal part G-d son of El that sacrificed himself for the redemption of mankind. Perhaps if we say Baal was both totally G-d and totally man some Christians would better understand Isaiah's message from G-d that there is none other than G-d to be worshiped - even though we become "one" (like G-d) with G-d - there is no other to redeem man.

The Traveler

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Isaiah 46:9

"..........I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is NONE LIKE me."

Smith taught that men can become gods. God Himself never taught that though. In fact He said that that will never happen because He said there is NONE like Him. So why is that Smith said otherwise?

Here's a quote from Smith in the Journal Of Discourses.

JD 6:4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844

"Here, then, is eternal life − to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves........................."

Also Brigham Young said that.

JD 3:93, Brigham Young, August 8, 1852

"Man is made an agent to himself before his God; he is organized for the express purpose, that he may become like his master. You recollect one of the Apostle's sayings, that when we see Him, we shall be like Him; and again, we shall become Gods.................."

I come here as a friend. As someone who cares. If I didn't care I would not come here to share this with you.

You are forgetting about time. God is talking in the now, JS is talking in future tense as dothe apostles who say when christ comes again we will see that we are like him. Edited by Blackmarch
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Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Zerechiah 12:18 "In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them."

1 Samuel 2:8 "He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and he hath set the world upon them."

Luke 22:29 "And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;"

James 2:5 "Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?"

Genesis 3:22 "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever"

Leviticus 19:2 "Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the Lord your God am holy."

Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

John 10:34-36 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

Acts 17:29 "For in him we alive, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."

Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

2 Corinthians 3:18 "But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."

Galatians 4:7 "Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."

1 John 3:2 "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

As you can see here, the idea that we can be like God is not so foreign a concept. All of these scriptures come from the Bible. They all mention, to some degree, our ability to be like God.

Now here is the problem with your question- You are saying that Joseph Smith said ther ARE others like God. He said no such thing. Neither does our church teach any such thing. He said we can BECOME like God, and as you can see from these scriptures, this is not really all that strange an idea. The LDS church is just the only church that openly teaches the concept of an inheritance and the ability to beceom even as God, because the LDS church is the only church that teaches we are the literal children of God with the potential to become as He is. These teachings do not in any way lessen our worship... in fact they bring an increased sense of worship as we see God as our literal Father and have a more personal relationship with Him.

God is God. He is our Father in Heaven. No one else can be our Father in Heaven. No one else receives our worship. No one else is or can be OUR creator. We can become LIKE Him. We can become gods, just not God. This is what we teach and believe. You do not have to believe it yourself, but there is quite a bit of Biblical support for our belief.

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It is easy to take one verse and take it out of context. Jesus quoted Psalms in saying, "ye are gods."

Yes, it is easy to take a verse out of context. You have just done that with Psalm 82:6.

Psalm 82:6, which reads, "I have said, Ye are gods." Some Mormons have interpreted this to mean Jesus Himself said that men could one day attain the level of deity. The problem with such an interpretation is that Jesus does not say, "Ye CAN become Gods." The text reads, "Ye ARE Gods.” Mormons don’t believe they are gods NOW.

Words have meanings relative to time and place. As time goes on, the meanings of words change. For example, one hundred years ago in San Francisco, the word “gay” meant “cheerful” or “jovial.” Today, in San Francisco, the primary meaning of the word “gay” is “homosexual.”.....Evil judges of Israel were called "gods", not because they were a deity, but because they made life and death decisions upon people. Therefore they were called "gods" in irony.

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Hey! I love the Princess Bride! ;)

We can definitely address that question, but I'd like to ask a question to you:

Are you asking this because you want to know the answer, or because you want to try to bash with heathens?

I love that movie too. :)

I'm wanting to know why Mormons believe that when God says otherwise and I am definitely not here to bash anyone.

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You are forgetting about time. God is talking in the now, JS is talking in future tense as dothe apostles who say when christ comes again we will see that we are like him.

God would be the one to tell us what happens in the future, not Smith. Smith never said that God said that. Therefore it is a teaching from Smith and not God.
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Now here is the problem with your question- You are saying that Joseph Smith said ther ARE others like God. He said no such thing. Neither does our church teach any such thing. He said we can BECOME like God, and as you can see from these scriptures, this is not really all that strange an idea.

God is God. He is our Father in Heaven. No one else can be our Father in Heaven. No one else receives our worship. No one else is or can be OUR creator. We can become LIKE Him. We can become gods, just not God. This is what we teach and believe. You do not have to believe it yourself, but there is quite a bit of Biblical support for our belief.

YES he did.

JD 6:4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844

"Here, then, is eternal life − to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you,................."

Brigham Young also taught that.

JD 3:93, Brigham Young, August 8, 1852

"Man is made an agent to himself before his God; he is organized for the express purpose, that he may become like his master. You recollect one of the Apostle's sayings, that when we see Him, we shall be like Him; and again, we shall become Gods,..........."

You said we can become LIKE Him, but God said in Isaiah 46:9

"..........I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is NONE LIKE me."

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I'm wanting to know why Mormons believe that when God says otherwise and I am definitely not here to bash anyone.

Well, when you put it that way... :P

I think you're confusing the concepts of "be like someone" and "be equal to someone." To use an example think of me and my dad. My dad loves me, and his goal for me is to be able to have all the good experiences and opportunities that he had (and in some cases opportunities that he worked hard to create). Now, am I ever going to be my dad by following what he has taught me? Absolutely not, that's absurd. Am I ever going to equal to my dad? Probably not.

The same sort of analogy applies to our relationship with our Heavenly Father, except our Heavenly Father is a perfect being. He loves us and eventually wants us to inherit everything that He has. Now, are we ever going to be equal with our Heavenly Father or even greater than Him? Absolutely not, that's absurd. Even our concept of "becoming Gods," as you put it, doesn't imply that belief. Many of the scriptures you quoted I interpret to mean that we will never be equal to our Heavenly Father. Now, we can, however, be like our Heavenly Father without presuming to be equal to Him. Essentially,

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

God's invitation to us is always like this. It's always a call to emulate Him in all that he does. Eventually, if we are worthy, we will inherit all the He has, including the powers of Godship that He has. This is what we mean by exaltation. Now by attaining these powers we do not presume to replace God or be equals with Him, we simply inherit all that He has. This, in fact, is God's goal for all of us. To take an LDS scripture, where God is talking to Moses:

39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Our Heavenly Father loves us with a perfect, all-encompassing love that transcends human understanding. Like a perfect father figure (which He essentially is), he wants us to enjoy all the opportunism and privileged that He has. And, even if we do reach that lofty peak of exaltation, He will never be replaced or equaled. He will always, throughout eternity, be our Heavenly Father.

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I think context seems to be the issue here. A quote was brought up by the OP that, so far, has been interpreted by those here to be out of context. As a response, other quotes were made (out of context as well) to prove the point, not refute the claim.

God would be the one to tell us what happens in the future, not Smith. Smith never said that God said that. Therefore it is a teaching from Smith and not God.

Prophetic commentary is different than scripture, sure. But it isn't some idea from a suggestion box either. Again, I see this context issue as well with Isiah. Following Isiah 46:9 we can connect the dots to Jesus Christ not being God (or a God) as well. I think everyone here can agree that assumption is wrong.

So if Christ is our Savior, and we worship him as God, and it says in the scriptures that God the Father IS God to Jesus Christ, you're interpretation of Isiah 46:9 is thoughtful and insight, but has a very specific context that I think is being lost when you compare it to stuff out of the JD. Which is not scripture anyway.

There is a long deep explanation that goes into the process of deification as outline in LDS theology that would explain this in great detail. Someone should do that :cool:

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One thing I do want to point out before this thread goes any further is that the Journal of Discourses, while wonderful for historical insight, has never been cannonized. I for one will never discuss things people "found" in the JoD when they use that material to tell us what we believe.

<<stepping off of my soapbox now>>

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I'm not going to jump too deeply into this conversation, because i will quickly be over my head. However, I continue to appreciate that several folks here explain this teaching openly and patiently. While I do not agree with the teaching that the most faithful believers will become Gods, the doctrine is not unprecedented. On the fringes of even evangelical teaching, one can find mention of "little gods" type teaching. In some ways, the Prosperity Gospel fad of the 1980s and early 90s played into this thinking. "I'm a child of the King. I am a prince. I am part of a royal priesthood. Thus, should I not have the best of everything?" Again, it is not that I am agreeing...just that the "shocking teaching" has some history to it, and a good deal of thought. It's not one of those, "Joseph said it so we believe it" kinda beliefs.

So...I'll mostly be reading this string and looking forward to further insights.

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the Journal of Discourses, while wonderful for historical insight, has never been cannonized.

Thank you for mentioning that :rolleyes:

Prophetic commentary is different than scripture

you're interpretation of Isiah 46:9 is thoughtful and insight, but has a very specific context that I think is being lost when you compare it to stuff out of the JD. Which is not scripture anyway.

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On the fringes of even evangelical teaching, one can find mention of "little gods" type teaching. In some ways, the Prosperity Gospel fad of the 1980s and early 90s played into this thinking. "I'm a child of the King. I am a prince. I am part of a royal priesthood.

Heavenly Father will always be our Heavenly Father. No matter how far we progress. The reference by PC is incredibly accurate to the point we are trying to get across. Just like in earth life, we are children at first, but grow to be fathers. That doesn't mean our father stops being our father, it means we progress to being Fathers ourselves. So on and so forth.

Sidenote - I am unfamiliar with the Prosperity Gospel Fad :( if it won't hijack this thread, penny for your thoughts, PC?

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Rouses, it is simple. A father, or mother, would love their children to become like them in every way. Granted they are good people. In fact, most parents would love for their children to be even better than they. This is the same with God. We will never take His place and He will always be our God but he wishes to give us everything that He has.

The Bible clearly teaches a plurality of Godly beings.

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Heres the deal. We are already gods. Jesus Christ himself said “know ye not that ye are gods?” and it was literal.

We as human beings are the literal seed of God. We are joint heirs with Christ because we are also sons and daughters of God the father. If you get eternal life does that not make you a God? And what would the point of this life be without it? Why wouldn’t our father in heaven want to give us everything that he has? Much like our earthly fathers?

Anyways, this doctrine really brings into focus our divinity. This doctrine goes hand in hand with our God, being the first man. However, members often dismiss that part. Even though they often will admit the doctrine that "God has a body of flesh and bones, as tangible as mans".

Anyways, just know that Adam and Eve were not "created" from dust or clay, for we are certainly not an adobe brick. He created us in the same way children are created* and a beautiful thing it is. Hence making us, the human race, his literal children in spirit and bodies.

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Isaiah 46:9

"..........I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is NONE LIKE me."

Smith taught that men can become gods. God Himself never taught that though. In fact He said that that will never happen because He said there is NONE like Him. So why is that Smith said otherwise?

Here's a quote from Smith in the Journal Of Discourses.

JD 6:4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844

"Here, then, is eternal life − to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves........................."

Also Brigham Young said that.

JD 3:93, Brigham Young, August 8, 1852

"Man is made an agent to himself before his God; he is organized for the express purpose, that he may become like his master. You recollect one of the Apostle's sayings, that when we see Him, we shall be like Him; and again, we shall become Gods.................."

I come here as a friend. As someone who cares. If I didn't care I would not come here to share this with you.

I am a little confused. You state "....to share this with you". What is the 'this' that you are wanting to share? You start out by saying you are asking a question, but end your post on a different note. You stated your question clearly - wanting to know why the LDS Church teaches what it does on a specific topic (and got great answers from other posters, I might add), but I don't understand that the 'this' is that you are referring to.

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The OP is not interested in reasoned exchanges or enlightenment. He wants to call us to repentance by pointing out how "Smith" is a liar and a false prophet.

I admire those who respond softly and politely to such things. I want to incorporate more of that attitude into my own responses. But let's not ignore the obvious here: TheR0USes does not give a flying fig about LDS doctrine. He wants to tell us how wrong we are. Period.

And I would bet dollars to donuts that TheR0USes has been on this list before, probably multiple times, under different pseudonyms.

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Sidenote - I am unfamiliar with the Prosperity Gospel Fad :( if it won't hijack this thread, penny for your thoughts, PC?

The Prosperity Gospel was a reaction to the hyper-legalism of previous generations, that focused on holiness, dire prophesy about pending Armaggedon, and the heaviness of our burden to spread the gospel, so Jesus could return. At times it could be an oppressive atmosphere, where one barely dared to smile. After all, souls were dying and going to hell, the King was returning soon--how could we possibly concern ourselves with entertainment and frivolity?

So...in the late 1970s and into the 1980s, some started focusing on the promises of God...that He would bring good, plenty, healing, blessing, prosperity, "the fat of the land," etc. As I quoted before, the idea that we are, as Christians, children of the King, and thus princes and princesses. This shift became so dramatic, people started to teach that we could command God, because he made promises he could not break--they were "legally binding"--if we just had faith. The flippant mockery of these teachings was to call them "Name it and claim it," or "Blab it and grab it." Somebody would envision a new Cadillac and say, "In the name of Jesus I claim this Cadillac. By faith I am confessing that it is mine."

Some argue that this line of teaching was a rection to the earlier generations, others say it was a product of the Reagan era prosperity. Irregardless, taken to its extreme, some teachers did start to suggest that we could become as gods.

Here's an example of a church that has embraced the idea of Christian deification: Did the Early Church Teach That Christian Would Be God? Again, this is hardly a wide-spread, or accepted teaching. It's very fringe. Yet it comes from a group that in many ways "looks evangelical."

Edited by prisonchaplain
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