Is BYU Football really that bad?


tubaloth
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Heck, just plain basketball period. The men's jerseys are sleeveless as well.

Ah but the Strength for Youth doesn't mention young men should cover their shoulders, only young women. :P

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  • 2 weeks later...

John:

I am a BYU, Utah, and Utah State fan (although I prefer Utah over BYU and USU) – but I am one who does not pretend to live in a fantasy world and am willing to provide constructive criticism about teams I like. I am not a mindless robot and I do not think everything that BYU does is good.

I have always been a BYU fan but have found typically BYU fans highly problematic from both an academic and athletic perspective who thinks BYU is at the center of the universe. This perspective – of thinking BYU could be a national champion – is delusional and all I am pointing out is that neither BYU now – nor probable every – will be a national football powerhouse.

This summer the BYU athletic department kept talking big about an undefeated season and being a national powerhouse. They barely beat the worst SEC team, could not beat a terrible Texas team, got clobbered by Utah, beat a terrible Oregon, and are now talking big again after beating teams like San Jose and Utah State and are gearing up for Idaho State and later New Mexico State.

I simply wish the typical BYU fan would realizes that BYU is a middle of the row football team, which is nothing to be ashamed off – rather than pretend they are some type of leader in college football.

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Dash:

Admit it, you're a Yewt claiming to also be a fan of BYU, as if that automatically gives you an excuse to go after them with your self-righteous rants. I would waste more time responding to your whining about BYU, but then I realized that post #23 on this thread is still valid, so I'll just refer you to that. Do you need a link or can you find it yourself?

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Dash:

Admit it, you're a Yewt claiming to also be a fan of BYU, as if that automatically gives you an excuse to go after them with your self-righteous rants. I would waste more time responding to your whining about BYU, but then I realized that post #23 on this thread is still valid, so I'll just refer you to that. Do you need a link or can you find it yourself?

I see BYU fans like you -- ones that think they are the center of the universal and that their football team as a national powerhouse -- as self-righteous rather than a honest critique.

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Actual fans of BYU football have a much better grasp on what goes on at BYU, where they fit, and how to spell the names of their players than Yewts who claim to know everything about them and their program. Let me guess, you applied but didn't get in for academic reasons? It's okay, you can admit it, lots of Utah alums are in the same (pirate) boat.

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University of Utah departure to the PAC 12

How’s that been working for them? :eek:

They were not a very good team and I hope the athletic department stops there fantasy, prideful, and dysfunctional behavior in thining they are one of the better football teams in the nation -- which puts a lot of pressure on the players. Sadly, BYU seems more focus on status and money and I hope they return to their roots and foundation –

Actually they were placed 33 in the nation at the beginning of the season according to the AP polls. That means that someone thought they had a chance to be a national powerhouse.

BYU should be first and foremost a University focused on academics and Christ-like service.

Hmm... Cougars were favored in the NCAA basketball championship games when one of their players broke school rules. He didn’t get a slap on the wrist, the school suspended him from play DESPITE it meant that they’d probably lose the finals, which they did. That doesn’t sound to me like a school caught up in sports over academics or Christ-like service.

This perspective – of thinking BYU could be a national champion – is delusional and all I am pointing out is that neither BYU now – nor probable every – will be a national football powerhouse.

They already have a national championship. I was unable to find when UU last won one. Anyone have that statistic? :P

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I admit that I'm not a die hard follower of everything that goes on with the ins and outside of BYU football. But they play one lousy game and then all of sudden they are a lousy football team? It doesn't make any sense to me. Especially if they have a history of of playing some great football.

To me, I don't understand why anyone would criticize an educational institution just because they want to advance a sport. From what I understand, BYU going independent was a possibility for years. I think it's ludicrous that someone would think they did it because Utah went to the PAC.

If there is one thing I know about sports (having raised three kids in sports), it's that you need to do what you can to advance that sport so it has the continued support it needs. Athletic programs are on the verge of being dissolved across the nation in our schools and communities. It's up to us to see that these programs can continue to excel.

I think BYU going independent was a great decision for the University as whole and puristically a business decision that has nothing to do with Missionary Work, etc. I think it will also advance the other athletic programs at BYU which is a good thing. It will also expose our students to other Christian based colleges who value the same values BYU does.

I do not believe it had anything to do with Utah going to the PAC. :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

1000 tears:

What I disliked about BYU at the beginning of this season was how often players and coaches were talking about how great they were and how they are playing for a national championship. I was mortified and as a BYU fan thoroughly embarrassed that a football team that is mediocre at best would talk like they are some type of national powerhouse. The two articles below outline Heaps and Mendenhall talking big about a national championship. I kept thinking what reality are they living in – especially with the easy schedule BYU plays (Ole Miss, Oregon State, and Texas are not very good – predicted to be average teams going into the season at best and certainly Utah State, Idaho, Idaho State and New Mexico State are not even close to teams you would play regularly in the SEC or PAC 12). I think what BYU was trying to do is play just one or two tough teams at the beginning of the conference (thinking that Texas and Ole Miss were tough) and then play easy teams (New Mexico State, Idaho State) in order to have a perfect record and then claim to be a national championship type team (the same strategy that occurred in 1984 when they were voted in as national champions after having one of the weakest football schedules in the nation, but going undefeated, which eventually helped develop the BCS ranking systems).

When Utah went to the PAC 12 – a choice I wish they would not have made – the coaches, players, and athletic department seemed to be cautiously optimistic, but were very clear in communicating that wining in the PAC 12 would be extremely difficult. I thought Utah took a humble and realistic perspective.

Then you have BYU making what seemed like a knee-jerk reaction to Utah being invited to the PAC 12 – claiming football independence, moving the rest of the athletic programs to a lesser conference and actually stating they were going to challenge for a national championship. They were bragging and talking smack before they even went out on the field. Here you have the heathen University of Utah acting humble and cautious and the BYU – who are suppose to exemplify gospel standards -- acting cocky and going after the money of national exposure.

This is why I am upset with the BYU administration. After going independent, couldn’t they have been humble instead of talking smack about being a national powerhouse. They deserve what is happening.

I hope they have learned their lesson and will come out next year with a humble disposition and be cautiously optimistic, rather than claiming to be a national football powerhouse.

BYU football: Cougars ready for risk, rewards of independence | The Salt Lake Tribune

BYU's Mendenhall explains why he keeps talking about national championship goal | BYU Sports | The Salt Lake Tribune

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What I disliked about BYU at the beginning of this season was how often players and coaches were talking about how great they were and how they are playing for a national championship.

What do you mean? That they were claiming that they would be playing in this year's national championship game? If so, that is a lie. No BYU official or player ever made such a claim. You are telling a blatant untruth. If you believe such a thing, then prove it. Show me a quote.

Or did you mean that they were saying that their goal was to play in a BCS bowl and, eventually, the national championship game? Well, duh. Of course that is their goal, and the goal of about fifty other football programs. BYU personnel were simply honest enough to admit that, since they have no conference championship to play for, that's their goal.

I was mortified and as a BYU fan thoroughly embarrassed

Ha ha ha. Like anyone believes you're a BYU fan.

that a football team that is mediocre at best

Please name two dozen teams that have been measurably and consistently better than BYU over the last decade.

The two articles below outline Heaps and Mendenhall talking big about a national championship.

Let's examine these boastful, controversial quotes from the first article. Mendenhall first:

We didn’t go independent to be safe. We went independent to move the program into a new era, so I’m excited for the challenge and hopefully up to it.

There are many that hope we fail. Anytime there’s a religious affiliation, it’s like talking about politics; it’s divisive.

 ‘You think you’re better than playing in a conference? It serves you right if you don’t win.’ I hear that all the time. But there are as many or more that would like to see if we can pull it off and applaud the effort to carve out a new place.

I’m more cerebral now and more comfortable in my own skin, meaning I don’t care what others think. It comes mostly from constant praise and constant criticism and constant spotlight and realizing I shouldn’t try to please everybody. If we maintain our winning ways in football, with more exposure, I can’t see it doing anything but making us more marketable for whatever comes next, and hopefully that will outweigh the comfort of a conference.

Wow. Talk about boasting!

Oh. Wait. There was no boasting, just dash reading his own insecurities into a coach's words.

Aha! It must have been evil Heaps who said all the bad stuff! Let's see:

Why not shoot for the stars? We’re hoping to have a very explosive offense. We have a long way to go, but we’re going to be there.

We’re not shooting for a conference championship. We’re shooting for a national championship.

Yes! There it is! He FREELY ADMITTED that shooting for a national championship was shooting for the stars, and then said, "Why not?" If that's not boasting, then...

Oh. Wait. It isn't boasting. Brother dash is living in a fantasy world.

No! It must be in that OTHER article dash cites! Let's look:

Nobody has asked me to say that from the athletic director to the administration, etc. It is just simply that I am looking to help our program reach its potential. And I would like us to move forward. When I consider now, what are the obstacles? And is it possible? I think it is. And I would just as soon say it. There will be detractors everywhere that say it is not possible, that we won't be able to. I am not one of them. I think it is possible. I can't give you a timeframe, but it is a worthwhile goal. And what if, with our standards, with this climate, and with this institution, what if we were able to accomplish that here? What would that do to the national landscape? And that to me is an intriguing reason to get up every day and come to work. And that is something I think we all look for as a purpose to continue on with whatever we are doing.

Please point out the boasting, dash. (Or do something really revolutionary, and admit you were wrong.)

Then you have BYU making what seemed like a knee-jerk reaction to Utah being invited to the PAC 12

Let's see if I understand you correctly. In dash's reality, Utah leaving a sucky conference for a better conference is virtuous, but BYU leaving a sucky conference for independence is evil.

Do I have that right?

Here you have the heathen University of Utah acting humble and cautious and the BYU – who are suppose to exemplify gospel standards -- acting cocky and going after the money of national exposure.

You have yet to demonstrate any cockiness on BYU's part. And Holmoe made it clear that exposure, not money, was the goal. Are you calling Brother Holmoe a liar?

I hope they have learned their lesson and will come out next year with a humble disposition and be cautiously optimistic, rather than claiming to be a national football powerhouse.

I hope you have learned your lesson about humiliating yourself by making false claims that you are unable to back up, then having your dishonesty exposed.

But I doubt it.

Edited by Vort
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Vort:

I do not have much time to get into a protracted debate, so let me try to bring some quick clarity to what I see as my central message and where we might differ.

The first issue is that there were BYU coaches and players that did say before the season started that they would be playing for a national championship – and in your reply you have outlined this with mixed messages. As you outlined, in the first article, Heaps is directly quoted as saying “We’re not shooting for a conference champion, we’re shooting for a national championship”. In the second article Bronco Mendenhall is clearly articulating that BYU can be a national champion.

BYU is a good football program and I do not think there is anything wrong with being a solid middle of the row football program. I will still cheer for them – but I find the illusionary view that BYU is good enough to be a national powerhouse as delusional cockiness and I think that reality is hitting home right now. Hopefully this season knocks some sense into some BYU coaches, players and fans and pride usually occurs before a fall.

If BYU wants to be a national champion they need to either (1) join a good conference, like a PAC 12, or (2) be independent and play some of the better teams in the national and not play one or two somewhat good teams (like Texas, this year) and then stack the schedule with poor teams (like Idaho State and New Mexico State) to try to have an undefeated season and then talk big like they are some type of national powerhouse. Even in their recent three game winning streak they (coaches, players and fans) were talking big again and laying claim that if Nelson was quarterback they might have beaten Texas or Utah. The reality is that BYU is just a middle of the row team and the reason they won three games is that they were playing not very good teams – and they were lucky to beat Utah State at home.

Two dozen teams that are better than BYU would be: LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Nebraska, Arkansas, South Carolina, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Stanford, Oregon, USC, Utah, Houston, Clemson, Penn State, Iowa, Auburn, West Virginia, TCU, Florida, and Florida State. I could probable list a handful of other teams. These are teams that over the past 10 years would beat BYU more times than not.

Yes, any team can catch another team on an off night and beat them. But this year illustrates that when BYU has played some-par teams, like Texas, TCU and Utah, they can’t beat them on a regular basis. Think about the disaster if BYU played teams like LSU or USC or Wisconsin.

Despite what you and a few others claim that I am not a BYU fan, I am, we just have a different view of what being a fan is. I believe I am a reality based fan and with this said hope that BYU players and coaches and fan can be a more humble team and can be more successful next year. But they need to play much better teams for me to start to think of them as a top 20 or top 15 team, before I can even think of them being a consistent national powerhouse.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well I have one thing to say about the BYU cougars..

I was in Salt Lake for the weekend they played Utah State, I purchased tickets from ebay ( may have paid way to much) I took my daughter along with me. We had a fantastic time, the people around us were great and it was a great game to watch. Hey BYU won... I bought several tee shirts and caps, and i would like to thank everybody that made the night so memorable.

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  • 2 months later...

BYU footbal is "fun". They win big, and lose big. They truly don't recruit the "atheltic type" that the Southern California, Texas and Florida schools get. I do think that although a "Automatic Bid" division, there aren't teams in the ACC that are much better than BYU, if any on a regular basis. (Or better than Boise State for that matter.)

It's supposed to be entertainment, we've turned it into life or death.

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