My girlfriend wants to get baptized, but it's very difficult.

[daplautz]

Please read this; we really need advice:

I have been dating a non-member for almost four months. We are both 19. She never knew much about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints except for some of the weird stories that are passed around to anyone. Her parents really liked me, but non the fact that I was a Mormon. In fact, her father doesn't believe in organized religion at all, but thinks that titles are a creation of man. Her mother just follows what her father says, but also has read a lot of anti-Mormon things.

When my girlfriend decided that she would learn more about the Church and what I believe, she met with the missionaries several times. Slowly, but surely, and after many commitments, she began developing a testimony of the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith, and modern-day prophets. In two months time, she decided to be baptized. Her original baptismal date was going to be the 24th of September (two days after I wrote this post).

She told her parents about her decision a week beforehand and her entire family went berserk. She was non-stop attacked by her three family members for three straight days, but her decision remained the same. Now, here's where it got really hard:

She lives in an apartment with her sister, but they are being forced out because her sister works for the apartment company, but the company was bought out and the new company doesn't offer free apartments. My girlfriend's sister is going to move in with her boyfriend, but my girlfriend's options are limited due to her going to school and working on a pay-roll that wouldn't be able to support her on her own. Her parents wouldn't let her move in if she planned on being baptized at the end of the week. Not only this, but they intend on cutting her off completely. No car, no funding for education, no house, but most of all, they made it sound like they would ostracize her. My girlfriend had three moving options after this:

1) Get baptized, then move in with her best friend, start paying for everything, and lose her family.

2) Get baptized, then, move in with my sister (a member), who has an open room for my girlfriend and wouldn't make her pay for everything, except she would still have to get insurance and a car, and lose her family.

3) Don't get baptized yet, move in with her family, wait about a year until she could finish school and actually live on her own, and she would get to keep for financial situation stable and her family relationships stable.

Option 1 was closed after talking to her best friend because my girlfriend doesn't have the money she needs to live on her own. Option two, theoretically, would be the best option according to someone who would say "just take a leap of faith," but my girlfriend doesn't want to lose her family. Especially since moving in with my sister would look like she is choosing my family over hers. Option 3 was the decision she eventually made after her parents finally listened to the missionaries and agreed that Mormons are Christians.

By Wednesday night, my girlfriend had decided that she would respect her family's wishes, not get baptized yet, and move back home. All day Wednesday, my entire family was praying for my girlfriend to just know what to do. And my family is LDS so you know she had a HUGE praying brigade behind her. Our prayers were answered. After she had a great discussion with the missionaries and her parents, she felt the Spirit tell her that putting off the baptism was what the Lord wanted her to do. After all of the stress and anger, she finally felt peace for once. Real, genuine peace. This choice was difficult for me to accept, but I know that she was in tune with the Spirit. I cannot disagree with her.

Today (Thursday) she called me and no longer feels this peace. She wants to get baptized, but remembers that the Lord told her to put it off (not for a year per se, but just to put it off). Last night, she felt peace and knew this was the right decision, but now she feels all of the anxiety coming back. She doesn't know what to do.

I told her that sometimes we just have to remember the answers to our prayers even when they don't continue to give us peace. I mean, the Spirit isn't testifying the truth of the Book of Mormon to me at every second of the day. Nor do I feel the warm fuzzies every single time I read out of it, but that doesn't mean that the answer I received about it being true was the wrong answer.

She did offer the possibility of just putting it off for a month, then if she still feels the way that she does now, then she'll get baptized. I told her that it wasn't a bad idea. And with her living at her parents house for a month, they might enjoy her company so much that she is allowed to continue living there even after she tells them that she is still getting baptized.

What to do? Comments appreciated!

[Gwen]

Out of curiosity how serious of a relationship is it? Have you talked about marriage? Are you going on a mission?

She needs to follow what she feels the lord is telling her is right. If that is risking losing her family then that is what she has to do. In my experience the lord never gives us a smooth path. This life is to be tested. It's not a test if it's easy.

As for what she should do..... That's between her and the lord.

I would say right now she needs your support on whatever decision she makes. If you are really serious and you haven't been thinking about a mission maybe it's time to lead by example. Take a leap of faith of your own and go. Gives her time to sort her life out. Stay in regular contact and see where things are when you get back.

[Guest mormonmusic]

She should go with the original peace. That was the answer. She needs to have faith in that answer. So often our initial spiritual impressions are the right one.

Ever hear this about taking tests and exams in school? "Go with your initial impression". This is because the initial impression is usually the right one when the decision carries a high degree of uncertainty. This is one of those decisions.

I would keep the family intact.

By the way, she sounds a lot like me. I was a young adult who joined the Church. I kind of lost my family when I got married in the temple and they couldn't go in. And guess what -- all the relationships in the Church I had, the people I hobnobbed with, and the leaders that encouraged me to make that decision are TOTALLY IRRELEVANT in my life right now. But my family -- they are always there, and the sting remains.

I would do what it takes here to keep her family relationships intact, her living arrangements, and her school funding in place, while still maintaining the LDS lifestyle until she is free to make that decision without the repercussions -- particularly since he had deep genuine peace about it earlier.

She should go with her initial spiritual impression -- it was there for a reason. And respect the parents. Honor thy Father and Mother.

[daplautz]

Hahaha I am going to go on a mission! I just have to wait until next year. I'm planning to leave in September of 2012. I wouldn't miss the mission for the world. And my girlfriend is incredibly supportive about me going on my mission. It is a serious relationship, but I know what is right in the Lord's eyes.

[JudoMinja]

The first thought that comes to my mind is that since she is 19 she does not need her parent's permission to get baptised. The decision is entirely her own. There have also been many people who have lost families over the gospel, so such a sacrifice would not necessarily be unknown... but as her parents became more accepting once they'd talked with the missionaries and realized Mormon's are Christian, I think her initial answer to wait was probably best.

If she had gone ahead with the baptism and "taken a leap of faith" as you put it, right then and there, her parents would have been hardened against the church and she would have forever had a difficult relationship with them. They would have felt as if you'd stolen her away from them, tricked and beguiled her into ignoring their concerns and making a foolish decision. Now, your girlfriend still has a good relationship with her parents and they realize that Mormon's are indeed Christian. Perhaps, if she talked with them more and addressed their concerns, they might be willing to learn even more about the gospel.

I think she really needs to have a good talk with her parents. Explain to them why she wants to get baptised and how torn her parent's attitude has made her feel. She should tell them that she loves them and wants to maintain a good relationship with them, but she also does not want to deny her testimony of what she has come to feel is true. Maybe, just maybe, they will take the missionary lessons and her whole family will be baptised. Maybe, not. But, at the very least, it sounds like if she has this chat with them- adult to adult- addresses their concerns and asserts the strength of her resolve to get baptised, she should still be able to maintain her strong relationship with her family.

[Backroads]

As I read your post and before you announced the option she had chose, I was thinking Option 3 was best.

She had original peace with her decision BUT the human brain is a funny thing. Of course she is going to rethink her decision. Of course she is going to feel anxiety. Of course she is going to second-guess herself. That's what the brain does.

Option 3, the one she made, is the best option at this time. Family is important, and maybe things will get better and one day soon she can get baptized with less family chaos.

This is also a good time for her to really build her testimony because perhaps there will never be a good time family-wise for her to get baptized. They may never approve and she may have to make the difficult decision between doing what is right for her/what she wants and pleasing her family.

[Jennarator]

Not going to say what would be best for you GF. That is going to need to be decided by prayer.

What I am going to say is that I know many that have got baptized and lost their family, not one of them regreted it.

[RMGuy]

What Jerrnarator says is true, and at the same time we are family church......

She needs to come to her own decision on this. Support her, but do not try to influence or decide for her.

-RM

[Delanie]

I would let her have a month or so to think about it. It sounds as if she is pretty bent on baptism, so that's not a worry. But she and her family might need some time to cool their heads.

[Guest sister-in-faith]

This may sound harsh, but my experience is that a family that won't stick by you during such an amazing part of your life (baptism) isn't worth fighting to keep. In other words, if they won't fight for you, it's not worth it. My mother refused to come to my baptism, and over the last few years we have grown apart. That has been the most healthy move I have ever made in my relationship with her. It was very difficult at first, but it has been very liberating too. I think you said that the spirit spoke to her and said that she should go through with it. I think she should follow the spirit. It will all work out for the best. When her family sees the good that comes to her, and the wonderful changes that she goes through, who knows, they may be tempted to follow her into the waters of baptism!

[Guest mormonmusic]

This may sound harsh, but my experience is that a family that won't stick by you during such an amazing part of your life (baptism) isn't worth fighting to keep. In other words, if they won't fight for you, it's not worth it. My mother refused to come to my baptism, and over the last few years we have grown apart. That has been the most healthy move I have ever made in my relationship with her. It was very difficult at first, but it has been very liberating too. I think you said that the spirit spoke to her and said that she should go through with it. I think she should follow the spirit. It will all work out for the best. When her family sees the good that comes to her, and the wonderful changes that she goes through, who knows, they may be tempted to follow her into the waters of baptism!

I'm not convinced this is great advice above -- and by sister-in-faith's own admission, harsh advice.

Remember, the non-member family doesn't have testimony. They don't have the same witness the woman in this post has, so they don't understand. Further, this investigator has the rest of her life ahead of her. The people who are members in her life right now may well NOT be part of her life in the decades to come, but family will always be there. Further, they are willing to help her in many temporal ways that really do matter and should be considered.

If the family was abusive in some way, or dysfunctional to the point of damaging our investigator's self-esteem or physical body, and it was best just to get away from them permanently, I might be more sympathetic to SITf'S advice. But I'm not convinced this is the case.

I see this moment from 30 years down the road -- that's where I am looking back at some of my own decisions that cut my family out the life equation due to Church influences. I wouldn't recommend it. I would look for some way that reconciles the interests of everyone involved. And this probably means waiting until she has little or no financial dependence on the family, and the baptism can happen discretely in a way that doesn't make her family feel they are on the outs.

Also, there is value in being highly sensitive to their feelings. Our investigator in thE opening post may well get married, have children, and need/want the influence of her parents in the lives of these children. If she acts in a way that is insensitive and callous toward their forming attitudes toward the Church, then she may well find her experiencing all the major life events associated with children and marriage entirely alone. This happened to me -- births, marriages, baptism, blessings, and even family vacations in my case. It was VERY hard.

The people who were encouraging me to act in certain ways early in my days in the Church are no longer in my life at all. Most have forgotten who I am, but my family is still there, and I miss having the close relationships I had with them prior to some of my Church decisions. And by the way, there were times after I made life decisions that made my family feel ostracized or disrespected that I needed to lean on the Church leaders or formal organization for emotional support. And guess what -- they weren't there for me. Family, on the other hand, can have a much stronger, and vested interest in the individual.

She can still live a good, clean life while she works to bring her family under the tent. And while Church experience can be a wonderful thing, so also is family. In fact, family is one fo the key values of our organization and religion. I feel it's can be questionable to abandon that value the second Church interests, and family interests are in temporary conflict. While the scriptures conflict on these issues somewhat, the scripture "honor they father and mother" comes to mind.

I say wait a while, get to school, get on her feet, and live the gospel as fully as she can until she is out of the house and school. Make investments in her family that warm them to the idea of her baptism, and if that doesn't happen, then do it discretely when she is fully independent.

Edited October 1, 2011 by mormonmusic

[Guest sister-in-faith]

I appologize if my earlier post didn't come off right... the only advice I meant to give was that she should follow the spirit in making her decision. The rest of my post was meant to illustrate how it may seem a horrible idea to "loose" one's family over this decision, that 'this too shall pass' and that it may be all for the best. For me, "loosing" or having a less active relationship with my mother was one of the biggest blessings in my life.

Sorry if that was confusing!

[Backroads]

I kind of see where sister-in-faith is coming from. If the family never approves, the girl in question will have to eventually deal with that fact. In sister-in-faith's personal example, a bit of distance from her mother wound up being a healthy thing. It's not healthy for girl-in-question to be entirely under her family's influence in this matter and she will possibly have to come to terms with the lack of family approval. If she one day gets baptized and family doesn't come, they'll all have to accept that. I dare say boundaries will be healthy. Indeed, I'm against the notion of "I'm joining the Church and you can all bite me!", but a peaceable solution to both parties will not necessarily mean rainbows and butterflies. I don't think sister-in-faith ever meant that girl-in-question should completely abandon her family, just that she might have to set up some boundaries and even create a little distance for this thing to proceed in a less-awful manner.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

I am going to offer a bit of advice here that I have not seen mentioned. This is based on the fact that you stated your relationship with your girlfriend is "serious".

1) Invite her family over to your place where all of you can have time spent as a family. Do not broach the subject of religion as in "We are Mormon's and here is why and what you are doing to your daughter is wrong". Invite them over so that they can see, taste and experience the spirit in your home. If your family truly active in the LDS Church, what a great missionary opportunity your family has to reach out to her family. Have the conversation about things people are doing in church. If you have younger siblings and it is normal for your parents to ask how everyone's day is, that will put a greater impression on the type of family environment you have grown up in.

2) Offer to answer their questions. Here is a very proactive way of starting this type of conversation, "I hear your daughter is wanting to be baptized and we understand you have some reservations about it," What this communicates is that they are concerned about your girlfriends parents concern. Yes, it puts them on the hot seat, but then when the conversation is about them, then they will most likely be more incline to open up and discuss. Here, one needs to be mindful of the spirit. Listen to the spirit, and ask questions that invite a good conversation.

3) Be ready and prepared to answer their concerns, including their criticisms (since the mother is steeped in Anti-Mormon literature). This is where it helps having them over because if you have pictures of Jesus Christ, they hear you pray in the name of Christ, and are just showing a wonderful Christ-Like attribute, that will help soften the hearts of her parents and get them to think that Mormon families are just as normal as any other family.

4) Be empathetic about their concerns and criticisms. Empathy goes a very long way in dealing with even the most difficult persons. Understanding their concerns, allowing them to talk about their concerns helps them digest and be more open and receptive to the information that is being processed. Communication is merely the transfer and exchange of ideas.

5) Leave an open invitation for them to come back and spend time with your family. Let them know that you and your family would love having them over, to talk with them, and to get to know them. Ask them if there is anything that they need help with.

Now, for you personally, if your intentions and hope is to return and marry this young woman (and whether or not this truly does happen after your mission), approach her father privately and ask him if there is anything around his house you can help him with. Does he need anything? Ask her mother if there is anything she would need help with. Remember King Benjamin when he said that "when ye are in the service of others, ye are in the service of the Lord". finding ways to serve her parents will help out because now you are a living testimony to the compassion and charity of Christ. Actions speak louder than words.

Final thought - when it is all said and done and they are still resistant to your efforts - pray on behalf of them. Pray for them no matter what. Pray for them even though they may say things to you and about you and your family. Read Nephi very carefully and the trials he had to face with his own family's share Nephi's experience with your GF and let her read about him and the things he had to go through at the hands of his own brothers.

Whether this works or not, one never knows until they try. If it does not work it shows your girlfriend a very important message that you and your family truly do value her and her family no matter what. In the end, that may be the very reason why she decides to be baptized and want to be a part of such a family.