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RMGuy

Cross on the temple

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LOL! That is an Auburn University Tigers National Championship ring from the 2010 season, from when we defeated Oregon. I'm a big Auburn fan if you couldn't tell. ;)

Well I guess I couldn't tell since I had to ask. :lol:

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Well, Christ *did* die on a cross as a part of the Atonement. What's the big hoopla??

The cross was just another way to die It was not exclusive to Jesus. Many people have died on the cross. If Jesus had died from poison Do you think they would carve a bottle of poison on the Temple door? Do you think people would be wearing little replicas of a poison bottle. instead of a cross around their neck?

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I think a better way to have put it was that they celebrate His death as the 'be all' and 'end all' of his mission.

I don't think that is a fair evaluation. Lately I have been spending time listening to sermons from a Presbyterian Pastor that I found randomly on iTunes. His name is Erinie Hess.

Almost all his sermons that I have listened to is absolutely Christ centered. I mean centered on His life and His teachings. To be fair, that is not the case in our church. I know we believe in Christ also, but I do wish we would talk about Him more. Thus my interest in Pastor Hess. Nothing he has taught (that I have heard) has been contrary to what our church teaches, but he really helped fill a hunger in me for more Christ-centered messages.

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As a non-LDS Christian the cross is a powerful symbol of Christ's love. He willingly gave His life me as a propitiation for my sin. I'm posting a link to a song that I think is beautifully shows His love. Please accept it as my way of blessing your day.

Edited by Irishcolleen

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The cross was just another way to die It was not exclusive to Jesus. Many people have died on the cross. If Jesus had died from poison Do you think they would carve a bottle of poison on the Temple door? Do you think people would be wearing little replicas of a poison bottle. instead of a cross around their neck?

Yes, because it's not about the mode in which he died, it's about who Jesus was and that he died to save mankind. His death represents the atonement, God's grace, and the cross (the instrument of his death) is the symbol of that atonement.

M.

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I agree, growing up in the LDS church and culture I was of the thought that any kind of outward celebration (such as wearing jewelery etc) was frowned upon.

I understand that; Its been mainly a Utah area thing longer than it has in the rest of the world but that has really gone by the wayside the last 20 years at least even in Utah.

Especially with the numbers of converts coming into the Church who are used to having/seeing crosses as part of the Christian religion.

President Hinckley even talked about that in GC at one point.

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But you traditional Christians can sure use some strange vocabulary sometimes, and it leaves the rest of us a mite confused.

ROTFLMBO -- as a convert you have to learn to speak a whole new language when you join the Church :lol:

- - -

I see now this is another resurrected thread.

Edited by mnn727
Looked at the dates

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The cross was just another way to die It was not exclusive to Jesus. Many people have died on the cross. If Jesus had died from poison Do you think they would carve a bottle of poison on the Temple door? Do you think people would be wearing little replicas of a poison bottle. instead of a cross around their neck?

See, the problem is that this is an unhelpful argument.The cross at the time was just another way to die. But symbols change. Now it is not "just another way to die." The two lines are a symbol of Christ to billions of people. It means love and redemption.

As a non-LDS Christian the cross is a powerful symbol of Christ's love. He willingly gave His life me as a propitiation for my sin.

I am LDS. But I also think that the cross is a powerful symbol of Christ's love. It doesn't stop me from celebrating his life and his resurrection because it means something else now.

This doesn't mean that we all have to use it. But the "It's a weapon" argument is divisive, somewhat rude (in others' eyes, it profanes a symbol of Christ), and does not promote understanding.

Also, it can promote the false doctrine that Christ's death of the cross was not part of the Atonement.

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They were building a new chapel in our stake a few years back that had on these negative space "crosses" on the front of the building that faced the street. They remodeled it to remove the "cross" before completing the chapel.

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Well, bottom line is other faiths use the cross as a symbol of their faith. We use symbols too, as I had an Angel Moroni placed on my Fathers grave to show that he was LDS. I have no problem with those faiths who use it, but as a member of the LDS faith, I am comfortable that we do not use that symbol. If we used a symbol at all to represent the atonement, I'd rather it be Christ by the tree in Gethsemane. A more powerful symbol in my opinion.

Edited by ldrkholt

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What you share is heartfelt and sincere. You deserve the same in return. Growing up I learned about how Jesus died, horribly and cruelly, for my sins. This humbled me. It reminds me that I have been forgiven much, and so should devote myself much. The cross reminds us of the seriousness of our sins. It is negative, a downer, a reminder of past darkness. Sometimes Holy Communion can seem that way--especially the bread, representing his broken body. Then the cup, representing his shed blood. Do you know that the early pagans accused Christians of canabalism, because of this?

As I grew up I heard that some of our larger, more modern churches were doing away with the cross. It was too negative, too gory, to passe. SHAME! I thought. How could they be ashamed of the cross? Or was it pride? They no longer wanted to dwell on their past, nor remember what awaits them, should they stumble or give in to temptation?

To forsake the cross, seemed to me equivalent to forsaking the messy parts of our faith. God does not need me to clean up his religion. I will never apologize for the cross, nor make excuses for what God does.

This is not about idolatry, or not recognizing the resurrection. Nor is it about denying the Garden. Frankly, my concern is more towards those evangelical churches (some, even in my own denomination) that have left the cross, more for marketing reasons than because of sound teaching.

LDS have never embraced the cross as a church symbol. I have no criticism towards you, or your personal sensibilities. However, I hope by sharing this, you will at least understand why many of us evangelicals are passionate about this.

Prison Chaplain;

Thanks much for your beautiful explanation as to why and what the cross means to you. I have more of an understanding and compassion for those who wear the cross and hang it in their churches. Thanks again.

I've struggled with the wearing of it. As has been posted on this thread, sometimes it seems that people wear it for a fashion statement as much as they do truly worshipping the Saviour. So, to me that's taking something holy and blaspheming it, to a degree.

Regardless, my mother did teach me that the reason why we LDS don't have crosses is because we want to focus on the life of Christ more than his death. But, I really appreciate your perspective that the cross acts as a reminder of what Christ suffered for our sins and carnal nature. I really like that.

As I've grown older, I tend to feel that, while it is very important to remember how the Saviour has paid for my sins, I agree more with the LDS perspective of not using the cross to symbolise what Christ did for us. I'll try to explain why.....

I used to pray to come to a better understanding of Christ and what He did for me, even if I had to suffer as He did to be able to understand it. I feel God has shown me that Christ's suffering, being infinite and eternal (encompassing all of our sins for eternity) is a suffering that I, in my finite state, cannot comprehend. Also, that His suffering is very sacred and Holy, to be treated with the utmost reverence and respect. As has often been counselled in the LDS religion, there are certain things we don't easily talk about. I have heard talks where they advise not to share one's patriarchal blessing, for example. Or, not to share the very personalised promptings of the Spirit given to one, unless told to do so by same Spirit, to others. Then there is the temple. We are counselled not to share what happens there, not because what we do is wrong or bad. But, because what we do do is along the same lines of being very sacred, Holy and to be treated with the utmost sobreness and respect. So, I would liken this to the Jews of the Old Testament. If I have learned correctly, they wouldn't even say God's name, out of respect and reverencing for the sacredness of it. That's what it is for me.

I grow very uncomfortable with others, even those in my own religion, who go into great detail as to how Christ suffered. This because I know there is no way we can understand His suffering for us. So, basically we're writing fiction when we try and delve into it. That's not to mean we forget it. What it means to me is to take the stance of humility by acknowledging it the best I can, knowing that, in a childlike way, it is too much for me to comprehend and handle right now.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Dove

Edited by Dove

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I've never met a Christian who believes that Jesus' death was the be all and end all of his mission. Every Christian church I have been in teaches that Jesus took upon Himself the sins of the world, and then was resurrected after his death. :cool:

I was Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist and Baptist before converting to the Mormon faith fifty years ago. Most of the Protestants I knew were rather secular by Mormon standards. They all believed, but they didn't believe the same thing. And they did not even know what their Church officially teaches for doctrine. For instance, I believed that Jesus was resurrected in the flesh, but I thought other men were resurrected in some "spiritual" way. It was not until I because a Latter-day Saint that I realized that the resurrection of the body was for all men.

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Unfortunately, there has been some anti-Catholic sentiment among the LDS over the years. Thankfully, I think that has eased up more recently, and I hope you feel welcome here. ;)

I'm sure there has been just as much anti- LDS sentiment among the Catholics over the years. Has that eased up more recently too?

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I'm sure there has been just as much anti- LDS sentiment among the Catholics over the years. Has that eased up more recently too?

In my opinion there is far less anti-Catholic sentiment in the LDS Church than there was fifty years ago when I became a Latter-day Saint. But I grew up with a Baptist background and found they were far more anti-Catholic than the Mormons ever were. I do not know if that is still true of Baptists today because I do not attend Church with them. I know that over the years my own affection for Catholics has grown because they have done a much better job than other faiths at holding the line on matters of abortion, birth control, gay sex, and other immorality. I am distressed to see how our culture is moving in the direction of "God love all of us so anything goes." I hate it when the church caves in on basic principles because it seems to me that we will all become a bunch of devils if we forget what is right and wrong.

My wife is one of the most devout LDS women I have ever met, but she grew up Catholic in Central America. I cannot imagine she would be as good a Mormon had she not grown up Catholic.

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I'm sure there has been just as much anti- LDS sentiment among the Catholics over the years. Has that eased up more recently too?

Well, their website has quite a few negative articles on Mormonism, and their forum is particularly distasteful in their assessment of Mormonism. Certainly that kind of criticism of Catholicism would get you banned in a heartbeat here.

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Are you telling me that the Mormon church doesn't believe in Crosses? My wife has been a Mormon all her life and she believes in Crosses. Why wouldn't the church have a cross on the temple? This is something I can ask her about, but I would love to get this straightened out on this discussion board.

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Are you telling me that the Mormon church doesn't believe in Crosses? My wife has been a Mormon all her life and she believes in Crosses. Why wouldn't the church have a cross on the temple? This is something I can ask her about, but I would love to get this straightened out on this discussion board.

It's not that they don't believe in crosses because we, as LDS, know that Christ died on a cross. However, in our meeting houses and temples we do not use them as part of the decor or decoration. We prefer to think of Christ as a living Christ.

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Are you telling me that the Mormon church doesn't believe in Crosses? My wife has been a Mormon all her life and she believes in Crosses. Why wouldn't the church have a cross on the temple? This is something I can ask her about, but I would love to get this straightened out on this discussion board.

What do you mean by "believe in Crosses"? We attribute no mystical power to crosses, if that's what you mean. But I doubt many other Christian denominations do, either.

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It's not that they don't believe in crosses because we, as LDS, know that Christ died on a cross. However, in our meeting houses and temples we do not use them as part of the decor or decoration. We prefer to think of Christ as a living Christ.

Actually, the disuse of the cross in Mormon culture has a more complicated basis than that.

Here again is the video I posted:

Here is a pretty good newspaper article (from the Deseret News) that covered my research:

Sunstone speaker attempts to explain LDS 'aversion' to cross | Deseret News

And if you are interested, you can preview my book on Amazon here:

Banishing the Cross: The Emergence of a Mormon Taboo: Michael G. Reed: 9781934901359: Amazon.com: Books

If you'd like to read a book review from respected Mormon scholar Boyd J. Peterson, you can read one at the following link: Reed, "Banishing the Cross: The Emergence of a Mormon Taboo" (reviewed by Boyd J. Petersen) - Written Works - AML Discussion Board

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A Roman form of punishment usually inflicted only on slaves and the lowest criminals. The criminal was made to carry his own cross to the place of execution, which was always outside the city. The cross was driven into the ground, so that the feet of the prisoner were a foot or two above the surface. The cross was watched by four soildiers at a time until death took place, which was sometimes not until the third day. LDS. Bible Dictionary.

I do acknowledge Jesus Christ was Crucified on a cross. I am eternally gratefull for the Atonement which was made for all. I will allways remember how he died.

Religious or not, the Cross is a symbol which represented a way a person would suffer and eventually die in the days of Christ. This is a symbol of death. Many died using the Cross. I find it kind of strange that anyone would want to use the symbol of the Cross on anything to include all types of Jewelry. I think it would be inappropriate today for anyone to wear on a knecklace or display symbols of the way people die. What if Jesus Christ was killed by another method. Can you imagine wearing on your knecklace an Electric Chair , a Guillotine, Hanging Noose, or a GUN. Can you imagine putting pictures or symbols around your house or Church of a tree with a Hanging Noose, or a Guillotine. I do believe though that everyone has to respect each other in regards to this. The Cross is a powerfull Symbol which deserves respect and dignity to all Christians. I would prefer the Cross to be used more in reverance. I would rather be seeing more statues of the living Christ, or pictures of The Living Christ demonstrated, etc. ... But with all this said, I would not mind if everyone had a Cross in their front yard. The World would be a better place.

Edited by SQUARE

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Square, I understand your point because I used to feel the same way. But we also have to consider the CURRENT meaning of symbols and words.

Take words for example, if you are happy, you would not call yourself gay, correct? Because while gay used to mean happy, it now refers to same sex attraction. Sometimes I wear a Star of David on a necklace. I am not Jewish, but I see the Star of David as a symbol of my love and devotion for Christ. This because I was taught in a class that the bottom triangle represents us, striving to do our best, and the other triangle represents grace. I love that.

I think it was here on this board that I learned that the symbol we think of as think of as Nazi, exsisted far before the Nazi's and was not previously of evil intent, but I sure wouldn't have anything to do with that symbol now!

Today a cross is a symbol of Christianity. And I believe we need to be respectful of our Brothers and Sisters in other faiths that honor it as such.

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