Dying testimonies. How tragic.

[Spartan117]

Open up your mind to the REAL reasons people leave

Welcome to the forum. I did read your whole post and was on board with you until this part. I know there are many reasons people leave the church, I think the reason the stereotypes of being "offended" and "sinning" are the first things people think of first is because those are the ones who leave the church, but can't leave it alone. They're the ones who are on the frontlines of the anti community. They're the voice of the other side.

I would love to hear your reasons for leaving if you want to talk about it, but the idea you're enlightened on the apostates, inactives or antis, with some amazing bright and shiny pearl of hidden truth about Mormonism is silly. Revealing the "truth" about Mormonism is the mission of every anti-Mormon website ever made. If there was a 'smoking gun' that once and for all proved the church was a lie, someone would of heard about it by now.

EDIT: She left?

Edited October 13, 2011 by Spartan117
I apparently responded to a ghost

[Guest Madison54]

Welcome to the forum. I did read your whole post and was on board with you until this part. I know there are many reasons people leave the church, I think the reason the stereotypes of being "offended" and "sinning" are the first things people think of first is because those are the ones who leave the church, but can't leave it alone. They're the ones who are on the frontlines of the anti community. They're the voice of the other side.

I would love to hear your reasons for leaving if you want to talk about it, but the idea you're enlightened on the apostates, inactives or antis, with some amazing bright and shiny pearl of hidden truth about Mormonism is silly. Revealing the "truth" about Mormonism is the mission of every anti-Mormon website ever made. If there was a 'smoking gun' that once and for all proved the church was a lie, someone would of heard about it by now.

EDIT: She left?

Nope! I didn't leave, but my post was deleted. Nice forum. Or should I say Nice biased or censored forum? Unreal. Guess you only want to hear one point of view on here? Why would the moderator delete my post? Very strange indeed!!

And, I thought my post was very genial and cordial. This experience has been very eye opening and I will not be back (which was probably the monitor's intentions).

However, if you do get the chance please visit the New Order Mormon website/forum for an actual unbiased forum.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Madison54

[HiJolly]

However, if you do get the chance please visit the New Order Mormon website/forum for an actual unbiased forum.

Bull pucky. It's a horrible site.

HiJolly

[NeuroTypical]

Hi folks,

As this thread is being viewed by various folks from other boards, I'd like to draw everyone's attention to a few relevant site rules:

1. Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachers, or its leaders. Anti-LDS Propaganda will not be tolerated anywhere.

6. Posting issues you have with a moderator or administrator anywhere on the site will not be allowed. Please follow the chain of authority if you have any concerns. Any such posts will be removed and the poster will be subject to the consequences of breaking the rules.

The folks who fund this site, wish it to be a place where folks can learn about the truth claims of the church, and interact with members. We've got no beef with Foyer mormons, or New Order Mormons, or Fringe Mormons, or Former, Ex, or even Anti Mormons. Or any other group loosely associated with LDS church or culture. But this site is not to be used as your podium.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Guest Madison54]

Welcome to the forum. I did read your whole post and was on board with you until this part. I know there are many reasons people leave the church, I think the reason the stereotypes of being "offended" and "sinning" are the first things people think of first is because those are the ones who leave the church, but can't leave it alone. They're the ones who are on the frontlines of the anti community. They're the voice of the other side.

I would love to hear your reasons for leaving if you want to talk about it, but the idea you're enlightened on the apostates, inactives or antis, with some amazing bright and shiny pearl of hidden truth about Mormonism is silly. Revealing the "truth" about Mormonism is the mission of every anti-Mormon website ever made. If there was a 'smoking gun' that once and for all proved the church was a lie, someone would of heard about it by now.

EDIT: She left?

Nope. Didn't leave. But have now had two of my very nice, cordial, friendly, open posts deleted. Guess this forum does not invite open discussions?

[mikbone]

I have many shortcomings. I do continue to pray in spite of my doubts. However, to the extent that god is answering back, hearing him do so has never been my strong suit. I try to maintain faith and hope that he is there whether I hear him or not. Maintaining faith in a creator and in the immortality of the soul is the easier aspect for me. Maintaining belief that god directs the church in a proactive fashion and actively intervenes in our individual lives on a regular basis is one of a number of things I struggle with. I believe our church leaders are sincere in their efforts, but I do not believe they have a direct, open line of communication with god that amounts to sure and unquestionable direction from him on a regular basis as most members seem to believe which leads to a perception of the church being infallable. Leaders seem to be praying and asking and acting on what they perceive to be inspiration the same as the rest of us. Are they better men than I? No doubt.

I don't know you Beast but I have been exactly where you are. Let me share my testimony with you. It ain't the normal sort. I have never heard an audible voice in my head. But I have been blessed with a keen sense of the Light of Christ. I know right from wrong and I can smell BS a mile away.

During my 2nd year of undergrad study, I had a prolonged evening when I wrestled with the Lord in prayer. I wanted a manifestation or at least a voice to let me know that a mission was the right thing to do. No answer came. In despair I finally asked that He give me an answer via the scriptures. I opened the quad to Section 67 and read 10-13. In fury I threw the quad against the wall of my dorm. I then dared Him to do it again. I re-opened the quad and immediately found Ether 12:6. It was my answer. It wasn't what I was looking for, but it was my answer, and I knew it down to my core. I spent 2 years in Southern Chile learning humility. Apparently the trial of my faith is still ongoing... It is now 25 years later. I have yet to have any manifestation but I am hopeful.

The Book of Mormon is true and I love the Prophet Joseph Smith. I spent time as a Branch President of a small branch in Chile thus I know how hard it is to be a spiritual leader for others. I felt that I was horrible. I made callings and decisions without any spiritual guidance despite my prayers and desires. I consequently have had reservations when my local leaders have decided to give me callings via the divine revelations that they have personally received in my behalf... I know that the vast majority of time the Church is run without divine intervention.

Do we need to constantly have divine intervention? Obviously not.

I recently read Waiting for World's End: The Diaries of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker. It is obvious that While Brother Woodruff was president of the Church, He felt that he was sailing the ship solo at times...

I wish to mak[e] the following remarks upon the principal of Revelation. Some had thought that Revelation had sceased, But this is not the Case. The Lord is with us & gives us Revelation. But I will say for myself that I wish to Avoid saying Thus Saith the Lord as far as I Can when I give the will of the Lord to the people. In the Days of Joseph Smith it was Thus saith the Lord almost Daily until the Revelations now embodied in the book of Doctrins & Covenants had Been given. Since that day President Brigham Young, John Taylor & myself have seldom used the words (Thus saith the Lord) when giving the word of the Lord to the people. P. 389 Waiting for World's End

We have not received much revelation since Joseph Smith's departure. Do we need more? Apparently not. It was enough. Although the occasional Beware of Pride - Ensign May 1989 - ensign is obviously inspired. As well as conference talks like Safety for the Soul - general-conference

I sit in Sacrament Meeting partake of the ordinance and most of the time try to keep watch of my kids while enduring the talks. Unfortunately most of the talks and testimonies feel uninspired to me but hey, every once in a while you get lucky. Its probably because Im not in-tune with the spirit...

I pay my tithing, teach in Elder's quorum once a month, but rarely do my home teaching... But I read my scriptures and have studied Joseph Smith's words quite extensively. I teach my children the gospel. And do my best to live up to Temple Covenants. At my current pace I will probably never get the manifestation that I so desired while in my dorm room, but then on the other hand I fear the trial that I know must precede its arrival.

As for Brigham Young's Adam God theory. I think that He was confused about some of the private teachings that Joseph Smith shared with him. He probably should not have shared the theory in a public setting and obviously didn't end the speech with "Thus Saith the Lord". I think that there are some things in the talk that are interesting and I wish that we had Joseph Smith's original thoughts but unfortunately we don't.

As for the issue with the priesthood and Black African descent. I'm pretty sure that Joseph Smith did not set that in motion.

Elder Hyde inquired about the situation of the negro. I replied, they came into the world slaves mentally and physically. Change their situation with the whites, and they would be like them. They have souls, and are subjects of salvation. Go into Cincinnati or any city, and find an educated negro, who rides in his carriage, and you will see a man who has risen by the powers of his own mind to his exalted state of respectability. The slaves in Washington are more refined than many in high places, and the black boys will take the shine of many of those they brush and wait on.

Elder Hyde remarked, "Put them on the level, and they will rise above me." I replied, if I raised you to be my equal, and then attempted to oppress you, would you not be indignant and try to rise above me, as did Oliver Cowdery, Peter Whitmer, and many others, who said I was a fallen Prophet, and they were capable of leading the people, although I never attempted to oppress them, but had always been lifting them up? Had I anything to do with the negro, I would confine them by strict law to their own species, and put them on a national equalization." Joseph Smith

Although Joseph Smith is not known to have made any statements regarding blacks and the priesthood, he was aware of the ordination of at least one black man to the office of elder. Elijah Abel was ordained on March 3, 1836 by Zebedee Coltrin.[1] Six months later, he was ordained to the office of seventy and was called to serve in the Third Quorum of the Seventy. Abel served his first mission for the church to New York and Upper Canada. In 1836, he moved from Kirtland to Nauvoo, Illinois, where he participated in the temple ordinance of baptism for the dead. In 1843, a traveling high council visited Cincinnati, where Abel lived, but refused to recognize Abel for the sake of public appearance and called him to his second mission to the "colored population" of Cincinnati.[2]

Abel rejoined the Latter-day Saints in Utah Territory in 1853. By then, Brigham Young had formalized church's policies against black people. However, no attempt was made to remove Abel's priesthood or drop him from the Third Quorum of the Seventy. He remained active in the Quorum until his death. Black people and early Mormonism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Edited October 14, 2011 by mikbone

[RMGuy]

EDIT: She left?

Honest question. How do you know if someone has left?

-RM

[mikbone]

D&C 45:26

When Shall These Things Be? - Ensign Dec. 1996 - ensign