What do Christians believe?

[norah63]

Yes belonging to a 'community of faith' is a good thing. However finding that is not so easy.

As some have stated here, there are those who love and serve Jesus Christ in most churches or groups.

To agree with the birth, death burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus. And agree to serve Him as the Holy Spirit leads, with your whole heart might mind and strength. Knowing our Heavenly Father will always take care of who belongs to Him. That gives me peace in this life.

Even if sometimes we have a time of walking alone.

[X33ad]

The church I belong to that Jesus founded would answer that all christains other than Catholics are in a degree of heresy that are not in union with the see of Peter the lds would just be denying the trinity where a baptist or Pentecostal would be denying James 2:24 and 1 Tim 3:15 along with john 6

[prisonchaplain]

I understand that "just denying the Trinity" is actually a pretty big deal according to Catholic teaching.

[norah63]

Have never understood completely what "denying the trinity", really accounts for.

If you have a Heavenly Father that loves you, a Lord and king Jesus that saves you and a precious Holy Spirit

that guides you, what would you be?

[skalenfehl]

I understand a Christian to mean anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is a disciple of our Savior. Beyond that, it's a matter of what religions teach based on mortal understanding, hence the philosophies of men mingled with scripture. Without a living mouthpiece (prophets called of God) to clarify, expound, reveal, etc the mind of the Lord, we are truly wanderers in the wilderness. To distill it further, anyone who claims to be a Christian and yet hates, ignores, forsakes (etc) his brother is not a Christian.

[prisonchaplain]

Have never understood completely what "denying the trinity", really accounts for.

If you have a Heavenly Father that loves you, a Lord and king Jesus that saves you and a precious Holy Spirit

that guides you, what would you be?

You could be a trinitarian, a modalist (i.e. believer that God is absolutely one, and only manifests himself in different 'modes'--Father, Son, or Holy Spirit), or, you could be an LDS believer in the Godhead.

I'm not sure that getting these nuances wrong is a disqualifier concerning God's grace, but neither is this a matter to just ignore. Surely the Holy Spirit will guide sincere seekers to truth, and surely we want to accurately understand the nature of our God. So, we continue to engage in these conversations, hopefully in a spirit of Christian charity.

[Gramajane]

I can't resist going light hearted (minded?) on this topic, because of the title. :)

--- so "What do Christians believe?" ans= Jesus Christ

but then we get the question of if we have his teachings translated correctly in the Bible, and if we have all he said ?

--- ans = obviously not as one can read all in New Test claimed to be his words (in the red print version) in about 1/2 an hour and he lived 30 years, and taught directly for three of those!

So- back up to at least a study of what we do have, in most accepted Bible (ans KJV) and using prayer for guidance of the Holy Spirit we can come to know we should pray and ask God for help-

as also a young 14 year old boy did years ago.

It also helps to look around to see for yourself who (which church?) is most like the one Christ organized?

Or which church is following the teachings of the Bible (esp New Test) most closely?

--- or is it MOST important how we ACT? if we follow Jesus love one another actions etc, then I believe we will come to know him, as if we claim to "know" him and do not obey him are we no then called liars in the Bible? John 1 2:4

[Gramajane]

I can't resist going light hearted (minded?) on this topic, because of the title. :)

--- so "What do Christians believe?" ans= Jesus Christ

but then we get the question of if we have his teachings translated correctly in the Bible, and if we have all he said ?

--- ans = obviously not as one can read all in New Test claimed to be his words (in the red print version) in about 1/2 an hour and he lived 30 years, and taught directly for three of those!

So- back up to at least a study of what we do have, in most accepted Bible (ans KJV) and using prayer for guidance of the Holy Spirit we can come to know we should pray and ask God for help-

as also a young 14 year old boy did years ago.

It also helps to look around to see for yourself who (which church?) is most like the one Christ organized?

Or which church is following the teachings of the Bible (esp New Test) most closely?

--- or is it MOST important how we ACT? if we follow Jesus love one another actions etc, then I believe we will come to know him, as if we claim to "know" him and do not obey him are we no then called liars in the Bible? John 1 2:4

[Gramajane]

So I wonder, did Lord Acton, think God is corrupt, or that God does not have absolute power? Or is letting, or making sure man has his free agency, taking away from Gods power? just asking

[prisonchaplain]

I'll answer both of the two posts above in this one. The bottom line for Grandma seems to be that Christians should do what Jesus said, and we should join the church that most looks like what he organized. I say amen to both of those two points. Too many claim to believe in Jesus and simply join the first church they are invited to, or the one that has the most pleasing program (music, kids' activities, social functions, etc.). How many Christian believers know the basics of what their church teaches, or what beliefs their house of worship holds that are most unique compared to others? So, count me in your amen corner on those two points, Gramajane. :-)

As for Lord Acton, his famous phrase was directed at politicians and politics, not at God. As with most axioms, try to apply it too broadly, or in unintended contexts, and it becomes folly.

Personally, I apply his wisdom in that I try to lead by persuasion and example, rather than by position, authority, or coercion. I would guess that the majority of LDS would find Lord Acton's idea very attractive, perhaps similar to the doctrine of free agency.

[Gramajane]

Thanks, and I agree.

I do find that we might benefit from some adjustments to truisms though.

maybe like "With most humans, power tends to corrupt..."

and also like "Moderation in MOST things" ( I don't want a moderation of snakes in my home!)

Thanks for your work here.

[Traveler]

I thought I would weigh in on this. Jesus defined his followers as disciples. The word disciple, to me, has more to do with discipline than dogma. In essence we all judge what is a Christian? That judgment is part of the discipline that speaks. There are two things I look for:

The first is according to what Jesus himself taught when he said - “by this shall men know that you are my disciples - if you have loved one unto another.” Anyone can love their dear friends - that is not what I think Jesus meant.

The Second is also according to the teachings of Christ. A disciple of Christ is a light shining in the darkness. Again - I do not think this is a shining of dogma but a shining of example. Mostly the love mentioned in the First point.

I have met many Christians that are not LDS. PC (who started this thread - being an example). I have also met others that do not carry the name Christian that I believe are Christian. One in particular is a Buddhist Priest, another is a Jew the fled Iran when the Shaw fell; another is a devout Muslim and another is a devout Hindu. I have even encountered an agnostic that to me is more Christian than most self proclaimed Christians that proclaim their allegiance to as Isaiah said some would do - with their lip and their mouths - but not with their heart.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

I'll answer both of the two posts above in this one. The bottom line for Grandma seems to be that Christians should do what Jesus said, and we should join the church that most looks like what he organized. I say amen to both of those two points. Too many claim to believe in Jesus and simply join the first church they are invited to, or the one that has the most pleasing program (music, kids' activities, social functions, etc.). How many Christian believers know the basics of what their church teaches, or what beliefs their house of worship holds that are most unique compared to others? So, count me in your amen corner on those two points, Gramajane. :-)

As for Lord Acton, his famous phrase was directed at politicians and politics, not at God. As with most axioms, try to apply it too broadly, or in unintended contexts, and it becomes folly.

Personally, I apply his wisdom in that I try to lead by persuasion and example, rather than by position, authority, or coercion. I would guess that the majority of LDS would find Lord Acton's idea very attractive, perhaps similar to the doctrine of free agency.

Except that the only absolute power is the power of G-d. Therefore in reality it does not apply anywhere.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

Except that the only absolute power is the power of G-d. Therefore in reality it does not apply anywhere.

The Traveler

Only if you get absolutely stuck on a very rigid understanding of the word absolute.

[prisonchaplain]

The dichotomy between one who speaks like a Christian (or 'believes') vs. one who acts like one but does not believe is a doomed one. Neither is sufficient. There are a lot of nice people, interesting, engaging, fun people, who reject God. Then there are sincere Christians who may struggle to do what is right, because they are weak. Then there are those who believe, speak, and act in powerful Christian ways.

We must love and support our weaker members, and we must strive to know and act Christian. I'll not neglect doctrine or learning for action. Neither should I neglect the doing of the word in favor of belief and proclamation.

[norah63]

To distinguish the difference between man and God, is mandkind's problem.

Made in His image, after His likeness, yet with our own will to choose. Only in Christ are we

Safe from this rebellion in the soul. Many would believe, demons included. It is the heart that

agrees that walks with God. Declaring that Jesus is Lord, in this lifetime so short.

As for a people, look for those who have the early church power. God is love, we manifest thatlove

to the best of our ability.

Offices and traditions change, power to deliver, heal, transform lives, changes not.

Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, in earth, as it is in heaven.

Forgive my faults dear brothers and sisters, I am just another pilgrim.

[AnthonyB]

Norah63,

I don't know if "early church power" is a great criterion for being a genuine Christian. In the Sheep and the Goats parable the goats were casting out demons.

There are people who are "spirit filled" but unscripitural. There are people who are biblical as can be but totally lack any spiritual aliveness.

I think the best mark of a Christian is love but not soppy boundaryless love, that would let people drive over a cliff without warning them but heart wrenching compassion that aches for God's best for others, even if they cannot see were there path will take them.

In the words of the now old Christain song....

"Don't ask me for answers, I've only got one.

That a man leaves the darkness when he follows the Son."

[Magen_Avot]

PrisonChaplain, I see any particular person who has accepted the Savior as his/her Lord, believes on His name as the author of salvation, and who is following Him or is trying to follow Him should be considered a Christian.

Although I have come to view the word "Christian" negatively. I do prefer "follower of Christ" myself. I do apologize, I don't mean to demean things for anyone else, but it really has to do with the "I'm a Christian and you're not" thing. I am sometimes reminded of websites that say, "when you join our site you'll have access to our other partners". Not a bad marketing strategy really. Again, I'm sorry, I don't know how else to express it better at the moment.

As to the beliefs of one who is seeking the Savior? At a bare minimum, I've gone 'simple' with

1. Belief/Faith in Christ

2. Belief in repentance (and then repent)

3. Belief they must take upon themselves the name of Christ (in name via baptism)

4. Belief they are making a promise/covenant to always remember Him

5. Belief they are committing to keep His commandments which He has given

This does represent the entry onto the 'straight and narrow path' and more can certainly be said of each.

Where do we take it?

How far?

In view of the whole planet and multitudes of Christian denominations should we (all) not keep it more generally simple so as to be more inclusive of each other instead of making the word "Christian" an exclusive club at the expense of the rest? (is this really about making/keeping converts? Tithes?)

Beyond a few simple, and may I say, biblical, requirements for baptism, the straight and narrow gate, is there more? Beliefs can only take us so far, when considered alone IMO. It's really the path beyond that propels the individual and fledgeling Christian

I read something from Matt Slick on the web who said this, "Christianity isn't about rules and regulations to follow. It is about a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ." As was said earlier, finding the love of God. I think this is a direct correlation of walking the path to Christ.

I'm sorry I probably said more than your op delineated, but these things have been rolling around my head of late, though I'm not much of a scholar as some of the others or you are, so I may have been less articulate. Please accept my humble gratitude of your view and your op.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Magen_Avot

[Guest]

PrisonChaplain, I see any particular person who has accepted the Savior as his/her Lord, believes on His name as the author of salvation, and who is following Him or is trying to follow Him should be considered a Christian.

I don't completely agree with this. I'm not sure you can call somebody a Christian even if they have accepted the Savior as their Lord and believes on His name as the author of salvation and is following Him can be considered a Christian if he believes Jesus Christ is his pet chihuahua.

Because of this, I can understand the Trinitarian's point that those who do not see Jesus Christ as a Triune God may not be Christians.

[Magen_Avot]

I don't completely agree with this. I'm not sure you can call somebody a Christian even if they have accepted the Savior as their Lord and believes on His name as the author of salvation and is following Him can be considered a Christian if he believes Jesus Christ is his pet chihuahua.

Because of this, I can understand the Trinitarian's point that those who do not see Jesus Christ as a Triune God may not be Christians.

A dog,... Honestly? In a strict view of what you are saying I understand your position. Fortunately, the bottom line is to seek after Jesus Christ. You know the one I mean, He alone is the way, the truth, the light and life of the world. In Him we find love for one another. Jesus (not the dog) accepts the junior as much as the senior upon entry of the straight and narrow path, but it must begin with believe/faith IMO. I don't really believe the LDS or other Christian churches are talking about a different Jesus Christ, we only believe different things about Him. Many are "man" regulated like the word "Christian" as defined by,... well, "man". To you it makes enough of a difference perhaps, to me... after the experience I've had, it does not, but it used to. Yet, we are only talking about our opinions, better to agree on some things and be in harmony than find reasons to act unChristian like. IMO. I do respect your position, but it seems to help divide rather than bring together.

[Guest]

A dog,... Honestly? In a strict view of what you are saying I understand your position. Fortunately, the bottom line is to seek after Jesus Christ. You know the one I mean, He alone is the way, the truth, the light and life of the world. In Him we find love for one another. Jesus (not the dog) accepts the junior as much as the senior upon entry of the straight and narrow path, but it must begin with believe/faith IMO. I don't really believe the LDS or other Christian churches are talking about a different Jesus Christ, we only believe different things about Him. Many are "man" regulated like the word "Christian" as defined by,... well, "man". To you it makes enough of a difference perhaps, to me... after the experience I've had, it does not, but it used to. Yet, we are only talking about our opinions, better to agree on some things and be in harmony than find reasons to act unChristian like. IMO. I do respect your position, but it seems to help divide rather than bring together.

I'm Mormon, so, of course I don't go by the Trinitarian concept of Jesus Christ. But, I grew up Catholic. And the Catholic Church has been through many great schisms simply because of "man's understanding of who Christ is".

It is easy for us Mormons to say, I believe in Jesus Christ as Divine, therefore I must be Christian. It is not as easy for a Catholic to hear you talk about Jesus Christ coming to the Americas in such a manner and recognize you as Christian. Their Jesus Christ never did such a thing. It is not a matter of division. It is a matter of establishing who it is they put their entire faith on. To a Catholic, hearing a Mormon talk about Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ showing Themselves to Joseph Smith in the grove is the same thing as hearing somebody tell them Jesus Christ is his pet chihuahua.

Of course, a Catholic still treats Mormons with the same respect and dignity as any child of God. It is simply too much to also assign to them the label "Christian".

Edited January 14, 2013 by anatess

[Magen_Avot]

I'm Mormon, so, of course I don't go by the Trinitarian concept of Jesus Christ. But, I grew up Catholic. And the Catholic Church has been through many great schisms simply because of "man's understanding of who Christ is".

It is easy for us Mormons to say, I believe in Jesus Christ as Divine, therefore I must be Christian. It is not as easy for a Catholic to hear you talk about Jesus Christ coming to the Americas in such a manner and recognize you as Christian. Their Jesus Christ never did such a thing. It is not a matter of division. It is a matter of establishing who it is they put their entire faith on. To a Catholic, hearing a Mormon talk about Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ showing Themselves to Joseph Smith in the grove is the same thing as hearing somebody tell them Jesus Christ is his pet chihuahua.

Of course, a Catholic still treats Mormons with the same respect and dignity as any child of God. It is simply too much to also assign to them the label "Christian".

I'm sorry I seem to have hit a nerve. I didn't expect for my view to work for anyone, it's just my view. I was raised pentecostal as a child, my wife was catholic until 17. It was some of those changes you listed that caused her search. As we approach Jesus Christ we become more forgiving, more loving and better Christians if you will. No matter what religious group we come from your analogy can be used across the board, as much as I dislike the imagery of it. I get it though. I do believe that on the other side we all will experience things a bit (maybe a lot more) different outside the comfort zone, or box we have built for ourselves. We all have each other, tragic that we hold on to things that divide us rather than united us in Christ, no matter what the breed. (I still don't like it)

Edited January 14, 2013 by Magen_Avot

[norah63]

Sort of agree with Magen on this one. There is more that unites than divides.

Hope there is some form of joining the family of faith together in the near future.

Jesus prayer for us to be one is sure to be answered.

The how and when may not be to our liking.

In a crisis situation we never ask, what's your religion.

[prisonchaplain]

I don't completely agree with this. I'm not sure you can call somebody a Christian even if they have accepted the Savior as their Lord and believes on His name as the author of salvation and is following Him can be considered a Christian if he believes Jesus Christ is his pet chihuahua.

Because of this, I can understand the Trinitarian's point that those who do not see Jesus Christ as a Triune God may not be Christians.

I church near my own was recently closed and re-opened. The new group believes that a Korean pastor who died in 1985 is the 2nd coming of Jesus. They also believe that his ex-girlfriend is the Mother God.

Ironically, they believe in Christ and the Trinity. However, their Christ is Rev. Ahnhongsong. Their Trinity is the Father, Christ Ahnhongsong, and the Mother God. Are they Christian? We don't like to judge that. So, I'd ask a different question...the OP...do they believe what Christians believe?

[Magen_Avot]

I understand from your observation and anatess's analogy that the worship of a false christ is how some may feel about certain religions. Really, how can any one of us be sure the person who worships next to us is a Christian when we may not even know what they really believe about the Christ, even if they say they do? I have suspected this of some members of the LDS church. But it does seem possible to get wrapped up in so many details it can be fortotten what Christ said, "Ye believe in God, believe also in me." (John 14:1)

Still, your question is valid because we are also warned to not follow after false christ's. Yet, when He is in our hearts, it is my experience, we recognize Him in the hearts of others who follow Him. LDS, Catholic, Protestant and all the rest. I'm no expert but I wonder if Christians simply believe in the living Christ, and accept Him into their hearts.

I suddenly regret some earlier statements, though not ment to injur, insult or provoke.