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LeKook

Yet another weird question, regarding life after death

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Yes, I know, you were just itching for another weird question from me, weren't you?

Well here it is.

Back when I was still a toddler, I fell down a full flight of stairs. As a result of my injuries, I had a NDE (near death experience).

From as far back as I can remember I've had visitations from folks who have already left this life. I don't go looking for these things to happen, they usually come to me and tell me their own stories, and sometimes ask me to contact folks who are still here.

Yup, I know, the natural inclination is to say, "That's a lot of bunk, LeKook!", but it has happened to me and I'd be lying if I said it didn't.

So my question is: What is the LDS teaching about these types of experiences? I was basically told when I was with the JWs that I was evil when I told them these things happened in the past, and were still happening to me. I couldn't resolve my desire to serve God and the fact that this is how I was made with the whole JW concept of being evil.

If these things are evil, why have they happened to me all of my life, why do they continue to happen up to now? There's no "shut off" switch; most of the visits happen when I'm asleep and when I wake up I have all the details (names, places, years, whatever details are shared) and I've been able to verify these details with real people and/or recorded details (places of birth, death, etc.).

I've even prayed and asked that this stop but the answer seems to be no. It's just who I am - and I'll never actively seek this stuff. Given the choice, I'd rather not deal with this at all!

Anyway, that's my story - how do I resolve something like this with the teachings of the church?

I'm open to suggestions, folks... I don't have a clue how to answer this one.

Thanks - please be gentle, I'm just asking a question, LOL!!!

-LeKook

P.S. Scriptural references appreciated!!! :)

Edited by LeKook
Adding a Request

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Does your patriarchal blessing indicate any special gifts that this could be related to?

Amazon.com: Life Everlasting: A Definitive Study of Life After Death (9780882908007): Duane S. Crowther: Books

I haven't had a patriarchal blessing yet. I can't really think of any way this is a gift, necessarily - except for a couple of friends I've had all my life who have helped me verify some of the details I've received throughout the years, I don't talk about these things with anyone. After the negative reaction I got from the JWs I just clammed up completely. For whatever reason, I thought baptism and confirmation would "cure" me of this stuff. It didn't. :(

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BTW I've never been harmed by any of these visitors in any way. Most simply want to pass a message on to someone in their family, that sort of thing - nothing over the top. I'd like to just accept it as part of who I am and move on, but people who've never experienced this stuff can be pretty harsh in passing judgment about it being from the devil, etc.

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Well you do not seem to be nuts. I know someone who has very similar problems and yes they do seem to be problems. His are slightly different but close enough that your situation is not implausible at all.

You need to be careful to not use this outside your stewardship. Even if you know something its not necessarily your business to take action. I also would not advertise it much or people are just going to think you are nuts.

I dont think there is anything in the church against it. Lots of people have incidents during their lives just not so many. How can it be evil if you never did anything or use it unrighteously?

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Well you do not seem to be nuts. I know someone who has very similar problems and yes they do seem to be problems. His are slightly different but close enough that your situation is not implausible at all.

You need to be careful to not use this outside your stewardship. Even if you know something its not necessarily your business to take action. I also would not advertise it much or people are just going to think you are nuts.

I dont think there is anything in the church against it. Lots of people have incidents during their lives just not so many. How can it be evil if you never did anything or use it unrighteously?

I'm sure I've never made more of it than what it is. There have been times I have been asked to pass something along but haven't done so - it just seemed to not be my place to do so. And I don't advertise it at all (well, except mentioning it here, because I'm trying to come to terms with it), but this will probably be the extent of my discussing it right here in this thread. I'm just trying to sort it out. :)

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There have been times I have been asked to pass something along but haven't done so - it just seemed to not be my place to do so.

And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? (ISAIAH 8:19)

Do these things happen because you are either praying or receiving revelation from God?

IF these things are true Consider yourself lucky for you are like the Brother of Jared. If you see these things than you have no need for Faith because you KNOW there is life after death.

Therefore if you KNOW you should be telling everybody you come into contact with. Everyone has their own gifts. Testify to all you know that there is a God, that there is more to us than this mortal life. =)

Consider your Veil, thin and give thanks.

Edited by ConvinceTheWorld

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Have you ever done genealogy? This is very common in genealogy. Maybe you need to be doing some genealogy. :D

I would NOT go around telling everyone about it. Testimony or not they are going to either think you are nuts or start looking to you for guidance not the Prophets. Genealogy is good and testimony is good. :D

Edited by annewandering

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And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? (ISAIAH 8:19)

Do these things happen because you are either praying or receiving revelation from God?

They just happen because they have always happened since I was a child. There doesn't seem to be a particular cause or trigger, if you will.

IF these things are true Consider yourself lucky for you are like the Brother of Jared. If you see these things than you have no need for Faith because you KNOW there is life after death.

I know there is life after death, but it is faith that led me to accept Christ's atonement on my behalf. So yes, I still have need for faith.

Therefore if you KNOW you should be telling everybody you come into contact with. Everyone has their own gifts. Testify to all you know that there is a God, that there is more to us than this mortal life. =)

Consider your Veil, thin and give thanks.

I tell them about the gospel. And keep it at that. Anything else is just personal experience, my own life events if you will. :)

In an odd way it seems you answered my concerns about this for me, LOL!!!

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Have you ever done genealogy? This is very common in genealogy. Maybe you need to be doing some genealogy. :D

I'll be starting that in the next couple of weeks, actually... am looking forward to it! :)

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Have you ever done genealogy? This is very common in genealogy. Maybe you need to be doing some genealogy. :D

I hear this from the genealogy experts in the ward all of the time - that people can be visited by those they have found or are seeking.

In Gospel Principles, I learned that the spirit world is here, among us. So, who knows what is possible? My mother is rather psychic and I've had a few experiences myself, so like I said, who knows what is possible? Unless I start getting the lottery numbers from my dead grandmother, I'm not going to worry too much about it.

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I am guessing you are going to find a true calling there. Prepare to be visited. :D I can see them all lining up anxious for you to get started at it. lol. :P

LOL they never visit to share the winning lottery numbers!!!

When it does happen it is exhausting. I'm down to a handful of visits a year. 2001 was particularly busy and I have to admit that for several months that year I did feel a bit nuts (and excessively tired).

Will be interesting to see what happens with all of this, though. I'd be a bit perplexed if someone with any authority in the church told me this was a "gift". The only thing that shuts down all possibility of getting a visitor is Ambien before bed!!!

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LeKook,

In my opinion no, you are not evil for having these experiences. How could you be held responsible for something that's beyond your control? If you receive visits from the dead, then that's just the way it is.

When it comes to the dead, I would say deal with them the same way you deal with the living. Treat them with respect; listen to what they have to say. If they want you to do something, think about it, and the potential consequences, and decide whether it's good or bad. If it's good, then why not do it? If it's bad, then don't do it.

Also, I think it's ok to talk to people you trust about these things. If you're indiscriminate about who you talk to, some people may brush it off as nonsense, or they may think you're crazy, or evil, or whatever.

I have heard of people feeling the presence of the dead in the temple, which makes sense if the Veil is thinner there. FWIW, since my wife died, there have been occasions when I have felt like she was there. Frequently I talk to her, even if I can't tell if she's around or not. (Now everybody's going to think I'm crazy! :lol:)

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Seriously I am thinking it is all about genealogy. Notice that they give you the date, place, name and event. If so it would be important to not fight them but pray that they will be patient and that you can focus on what is needed.

You do have a gift and it could be very helpful.

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Guest Magen_Avot

Hey LaKook, I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this but,... it is a gift. The veil has been thin for me since I was 11. I had an experience that resulted in me getting the priesthood at the age of 11. But it wasn't until my mission that everything went into overdrive for me. Not like you though. People don't visit with requests, but there is usually a reason that's easy to figure out. I don't usually discuss it openly, too many people have difficulty when they hear about it. But I have seen unembodied and disembodied spirits. It was mentioned in my patriarchal blessing along with the gifts of the spirit I have also, so I'd recommend getting one. :cool:

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Hey LaKook, I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this but,... it is a gift. The veil has been thin for me since I was 11. I had an experience that resulted in me getting the priesthood at the age of 11. But it wasn't until my mission that everything went into overdrive for me. Not like you though. People don't visit with requests, but there is usually a reason that's easy to figure out. I don't usually discuss it openly, too many people have difficulty when they hear about it. But I have seen unembodied and disembodied spirits. It was mentioned in my patriarchal blessing along with the gifts of the spirit I have also, so I'd recommend getting one. :cool:

Just to be clear here (in case I am being unclear, LOL!), I hope when I get my patriarchal blessing this doesn't get mentioned and that whatever I receive in the blessing is way more practical than this. Just being honest. I'd rather this stuff not happen at all, as I see no real reason for it. If it's all just about names and dates, anyone can get that stuff from various records. If it's more than that, fine, but I've prayed about it and in almost 50 years have received no explanation as to how or why this happens. Bad enough it happens at all. Not being able to make sense of it makes it infinitely worse, because it makes me feel like I'm nuts sometimes or that someone will think I'm a complete weirdo.

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LeKook,

When it comes to the dead, I would say deal with them the same way you deal with the living. Treat them with respect; listen to what they have to say. If they want you to do something, think about it, and the potential consequences, and decide whether it's good or bad. If it's good, then why not do it? If it's bad, then don't do it.

I always do treat them with respect. Usually they are very direct with me, though some are extremely emotional and it takes effort on my part to get them to get to the reason why they are visiting in the first place.

Also, I think it's ok to talk to people you trust about these things. If you're indiscriminate about who you talk to, some people may brush it off as nonsense, or they may think you're crazy, or evil, or whatever.

Back in 2001 I dreamed about the plane crashing into the Pentagon, the Friday before it actually happened. Freaked me out more than a little, and I told one of the couple of friends I can talk to about this stuff about it. Of course the dream had no context (date of event, terrorism, whatever) so to me it was just a dream about a plane crashing into a familiar building. She kept saying to me, "It's probably just a dream, maybe you saw something recently that made you think of that." I said no, but my point is, my friend didn't insist it was crazy, and kept me on an even keel even though the dream was very realistic. This same friend also really helped me work through the emotional issues I had to deal with after the event actually happened.

I have heard of people feeling the presence of the dead in the temple, which makes sense if the Veil is thinner there. FWIW, since my wife died, there have been occasions when I have felt like she was there. Frequently I talk to her, even if I can't tell if she's around or not. (Now everybody's going to think I'm crazy! :lol:)

LOL no not crazy. My mom passed away when I was 8. She didn't visit me until the late 1990s, and occasionally still shows up. And yup, I talk to her sometimes, whether I can tell if she's around or not. :)

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LaKook, There is definitely precedence in the scriptures for individuals receiving spirits. Who could deny it? It is also plainly discussed as a gift of the spirit, "And again, to another, the beholding of angles and ministering spirits;" (Moroni 10:14). Who knows how many receive visitations from time to time? For good reason few discuss it openly.

I see you haven't received your patriarchal blessing, this is probably a good place to start. Your patriarchal blessing will give you specific revelation to guide you throughout your life. Temple work and genealogy may also be important. Study this topic and I think you may soon know more than most about this gift.

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LaKook, There is definitely precedence in the scriptures for individuals receiving spirits. Who could deny it? It is also plainly discussed as a gift of the spirit, "And again, to another, the beholding of angles and ministering spirits;" (Moroni 10:14). Who knows how many receive visitations from time to time? For good reason few discuss it openly.

That's why outside of this thread I'm not likely to ever discuss it again. Because it's never received well, people think of me as being nuts, or phoney, or whatever. But I can't lie and say this stuff doesn't happen either. It was easy for me to relate to Joseph Smith's experiences, they seemed perfectly reasonable to me, LOL!!!

I see you haven't received your patriarchal blessing, this is probably a good place to start. Your patriarchal blessing will give you specific revelation to guide you throughout your life. Temple work and genealogy may also be important. Study this topic and I think you may soon know more than most about this gift.

I need to pray about this. I'm uncomfortable with what the possible outcome of the blessing would be (maybe I'll be told I really AM nuts??). Or the possibility of being told I just have to learn to live with this (which I mostly have). All of my life I've been told this stuff can only have an evil origin in various churches I've attended, and little by little I've had to kill off parts of myself. I've had only one experience in my entire life with a being who was an actual angel and I won't share details about it, I feel like too much is "out there" already. But I think you can understand my reticence about the potential outcomes of the blessing. :unsure:

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LeKook, My husbands great grandfather used to have dreams a lot. He used to have dreams about a new religion in america, he lived in England at the time, and that they had a book. Angels told him this and he saw it. Later he dreamed a dream looking down on SLC. He saw huge numbers of Elders spreading out in all directions. Just before he died, he saw Joseph and Hiram, whom he had known.

All this was a blessing to him and to his descendants. Yes it is a problem but the evil you have known in your life telling you that YOU were evil was deceiving. They wanted you to toss away your gift, and try to destroy it. Your patriarchal blessing is going to give you an idea of what is necessary to you to know. Dont fear it. It will help you out. Just dont pray that your gifts be taken away from you. If nothing else your mom probably enjoys the visits. :D

I wanted to add something else. Probably there are lots more people than will admit it have this kind of experience. Maybe even most people. I have had a few myself and I am no where near psychic.

Edited by annewandering

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Just as an aside, LeKook, I really enjoy these posts -- which are indeed weird, but then that's life, from my perspective.

Back when I was still a toddler, I fell down a full flight of stairs. As a result of my injuries, I had a NDE (near death experience).

Wow. Do you remember it as it happened? Has the spirit helped you to remember it? My earliest big event was when I was 8 years old. And the Spirit had to remind me of the details when I was 20 years old because my foolishness of teenage living had caused me to forget it.

I have this theory about NDEs. I believe it is more akin to being caught up into the 3rd heaven, than it is about what it's like to be dead. What do you think?

From as far back as I can remember I've had visitations from folks who have already left this life. I don't go looking for these things to happen, they usually come to me and tell me their own stories, and sometimes ask me to contact folks who are still here.

So my question is: What is the LDS teaching about these types of experiences?

There isn't much. Basically, we know the spirit world is all around us, and we know that some people have gifts (that are almost like curses, sometimes) and we have them for a reason, though sometimes we can't seem to figure out the reason.

It cannot be inherently evil, and it cannot be because you are personally evil.

Anyway, that's my story - how do I resolve something like this with the teachings of the church?

I'm open to suggestions, folks... I don't have a clue how to answer this one.

Thanks - please be gentle, I'm just asking a question, LOL!!!

-LeKook

P.S. Scriptural references appreciated!!! :)

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is not exactly the same as the Church of Jesus Christ.

The Gospel includes all truth, and that is a BIG deal. The Church, on the other hand, contains only a subset of truth, basically that which is specifically designed to bring salvation & exaltation to people, both living and dead.

An example of this would be the Gospel Doctrine class in the 3-hour meeting block. Let's say the lesson is on the Second Coming of Jesus Christ to the earth, in power & glory. We have, on average, something like 40 minutes to not only cover the topic, but also for comments and sharing of experiences. At that pace, we'd need like 1,000 meetings (probably more) to really cover it.

But we don't have the time, so we just do the best we can. If all truth on that topic represents 100% of the info, we only get maybe 5 or 10% in our lifetimes. The remaining 90% or so is gained via personal study; personal revelation. If at all.

So grit your teeth & do the best you can with it. Pray not only for understanding (Binah), which is appropriate contextualization and cross-referencing of knowledge (ie, no necessary drive to do anything about it); but especially for wisdom (Chokma), which is the righteous application of knowledge (which requires action on our part).

We're all here to learn & do. It's a tough gig! Having the influence of the Holy Ghost is really the best thing we can have to help us through it all.

HiJolly

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Yes, I know, you were just itching for another weird question from me, weren't you?

Well here it is.

Back when I was still a toddler, I fell down a full flight of stairs. As a result of my injuries, I had a NDE (near death experience).

From as far back as I can remember I've had visitations from folks who have already left this life. I don't go looking for these things to happen, they usually come to me and tell me their own stories, and sometimes ask me to contact folks who are still here.

Yup, I know, the natural inclination is to say, "That's a lot of bunk, LeKook!", but it has happened to me and I'd be lying if I said it didn't.

So my question is: What is the LDS teaching about these types of experiences? I was basically told when I was with the JWs that I was evil when I told them these things happened in the past, and were still happening to me. I couldn't resolve my desire to serve God and the fact that this is how I was made with the whole JW concept of being evil.

Personally i'd only worry if any of the spirits that came to you seemed threatening or hostile. And as a general rule of the thumb i'd keep info that i got from them private.

If these things are evil, why have they happened to me all of my life, why do they continue to happen up to now? There's no "shut off" switch; most of the visits happen when I'm asleep and when I wake up I have all the details (names, places, years, whatever details are shared) and I've been able to verify these details with real people and/or recorded details (places of birth, death, etc.).

I've even prayed and asked that this stop but the answer seems to be no. It's just who I am - and I'll never actively seek this stuff. Given the choice, I'd rather not deal with this at all!

Anyway, that's my story - how do I resolve something like this with the teachings of the church?

I'm open to suggestions, folks... I don't have a clue how to answer this one.

Thanks - please be gentle, I'm just asking a question, LOL!!!

-LeKook

P.S. Scriptural references appreciated!!! :)

LDS doctrine is pretty open about it. We do believe in the visitation of angels (which i'd imagine would also include spirits).

One of the early prophets (I can't remember if it was Taylor or Josseph F Smith) was described as being half in the spirit world, because he'd have so many experiences with such. And he learned quite a few things about the spirit world, and before he was called to be a prophet, he asked about it he was told to keep it to himself until the right time (paraphrased).

Personally i wou ldnt worry too much about it if the spirits don't seem hostile or evil. And for information they share i'd generally keep it private.

Edited by Blackmarch

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