Is our food storage safe

[pooter1]

oh He was the French President. Um still don't know why you would relate him to Pres.Obama. I am pretty dense at times though........ok my husband says a lot of times. lol

[NeuroTypical]

Just to be clear - there's a big difference between self-reliance, and "living all alone in a hole in the ground" or "living solely alone within our own little world". I'm not advocating that.

Self-reliance does not mean isolation or reclusivity. It means knowing how to grow your own food to suppliment what your interdependant community can provide. It means if you lose your job, you have other skills and ways to work. It means you strive to not be two months away from bankruptcy or forclosure.

[RescueMom]

Are unicorns real? Is President Obama really just a reincarnated Charles De Gaulle in disguise? Will I ever be loved?

1. Unicorns are real.

2. Obama is not De Gaulle nor is he Hitler nor is he Stalin. He might be doing a bad job or a good job, depending on POV. Judge him on his own merits and skip everything else.

3. You already are.

The real question is how does all of this play out in our eternal prospective. Can we face our HF in honesty, with our many arguments that we use to defend our opinions here, when he asks how we helped in the eternal salvation of our brothers and sisters.

[Traveler]

There seems to be a president in ancient scripture that in times of great need - those willing to sacrifice and share had sufficient and then some but those that thought to keep what they had to themselves - their supply did not last.

I do not believe our food supply and what we share at a time of crisis is a matter of how much we have as it is a matter of faith. If we have difficulty paying tithing when there seems not enough to pay our bills; most likely we lack the faith to sustain ourselves through just about any crisis.

The Traveler

[lds2]

I agree with what you are saying Traveler about faith...I think...unless you are saying our faith will save us without obedience?

I know a lot of people think that paying tithing is famine insurance as well as "fire." But I worry for those that are not following Heavenly Father's commandment (found here...https://lds.org/family/family-well-being/home-storage?lang=eng) to be self-reliant and then expect the miracles based on their faith...

Heavenly Father's Son has said that “there is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.” (D&C 130:20–21.)

What if having followed the First Presidency's message to the Church given to us several years ago here

https://lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/04008_eng.pdf?lang=eng

is the law upon which the future miracles will be predicated?

[Guest Magen_Avot]

In a 'post-apocolyptic' event that seems to be the focus where we loose the use of cellular phones are unusable nation/world wide we will not have communication with the prophet. Things will be handled by the stake/ward leadership. There have been drills conducted in California that I know of where phones or autos could not be used and because things were so well organized it was deemed a success. If we did that in my area right now it wouldn't be so pretty but there is a written plan. I think we would all be very supprised to find both members and non-members getting together to ensure the best survival climate possible. I share the same fears about my own family but I believe we'd all pull together in our own areas, most of us at least. Even the unicorn would be put to work until it was called upon to sacrifice all. . I'm just an optimist on this issue. Zions's Camp comes to mind.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Magen_Avot

[lds2]

"...I believe at least two overarching lessons are to be found in Brother Brigham’s answer to that taunting question: the lesson of testing, sifting, and preparing, and the lesson of observing, learning from, and following the Brethren. I emphasize emphatically that these lessons are as important, if not more important, for us to learn and apply today than they were 176 years ago for the volunteers in Zion’s Camp...The time to show came in the experiences and privations of every hour, of every day, and of every week...For those with eyes to see and ears to hear, spiritual warnings lead to increasingly vigilant watching. You and I live in “a day of warning." And because we have been and will be warned, we need to be...“watching … with all perseverance." As we watch and prepare, truly we have no need to fear ."...

Presentations – BYU–Idaho

[I_Can_See]

This is totally my kind of topic! First of all the police wouldn't come to your door to get your food in a crises like that. It would be way to dangerous for them. A lot of people will be putting up a nasty fight. And then they would have to find the food that anyone with any sense would hide. They would just try to keep you from getting more.

Many have posted that you should follow the prophets (true), and have to share as a test of faith (true), and will eventually live the law of consecration (true), and if you do all that you are commanded and have faith the Lord will provide you help (true). I wanted to make comments on all those topics but you guys have covered it so well.

I am glad that book made you think about what would happen but now you need to start acting on your question. Start learning everything you can and prepare as much as possible. You need to get yourself motivated.

It helps if you can think outside the box. Think about seed storage and learning to garden. Learn to forage for wild edible plants. Not to toot my own horn but I can identify and prepare over 50 wild edible plants. Learn to can, dry, vacuum pack your own food.

Oh, while I am thinking about it. I think some of the scenario posted are very similar to the situation in which the Mark of the Beast will present itself.

And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their forehead.

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." (Rev 13:16&17)

The thing that you have to remember about a lot of these books and movies is that they never, to my experience, have the story right. If you want to know how things are really going to turn out you need to do more studying in the scriptures and church resources. There are a lot of books in the LDS book stores that cover those topics. But be forewarned that it can be pretty scary reading till you get to the parts about those who chose to follow after Christ.

And I know I am suppose to quote it but I remember when studying about Abraham sacrificing his son that the church leaders said that God would never ask us to sacrifice our family. I assume that that would apply to letting our children starve also.

[mirkwood]

The police are not going to seize your food. That is not their role in society...not even a post apocalyptic society. Not gonna happen. They are not going to seize your guns either.

I see the fast offering program changing under these types of circumstances. Instead of donating a genrous cash offering, it will be donating a generous _________ (fill in the blank.)

Self defense is a part of preparedness. Preparedness is a part of self reliance. Self reliance is a part of the gospel. It all blends harmoniously.

[lds2]

My relative who has spent most of his life in the missile tech field believes that this is the most likely way that the US will be attacked in the future and there is an ever increasing number of countries that would be willing to send us such anonymous "gifts."

It was almost exactly a year ago there was an "unexplained" missile launching over the West coast (and some say the East coast as well.) Mystery Missile Launch Seen off Calif. Coast - CBS News Had these been actual live missiles we could already be experiencing a 1600 AD type existence...such as this...

One Second After Wiki Plot Summary....EMP Goes Off

"There are hundreds of people whose cars and trucks simply stopped on the nearby Interstate highway...There is an immediate concern about food...Without modern utilities and supplies, diseases surge...The social order begins to break down. It is too late in the year to plant crops, and few people in the area know how to farm anyway...The town must organize its young people to defend itself....After a time, the extreme shortages of food necessitate difficult choices about who gets how much food and which people are to be deliberately underfed to the point of starvation..."

This community was fortunate enough to have a reservoir with gravity fed pipes that led straight into the town...someone at the top fed buckets of water into the water pipes that would multiply into enough water for 1,000s of people as well as animals with plenty left over to grow crops and send down to the closest large city as well...and miraculously the reservoir and the water did not freeze during the winter. The bad guys were mostly only the "outsiders" who stayed on the highways/freeways so that emigration could be controlled.

***

I agree with my relative that such an event is likely in the future if we continue to invade and provoke our enemies. The only way that I can see survival in such an event is if we are gathered out as President Benson said...(Conference April 1982

Prepare Yourself for the Great Day of the Lord)

"But to an otherwise gloomy picture there is a bright side—the coming of our Lord in all His glory. His coming will be both glorious and terrible, depending on the spiritual condition of those who remain.

One appearance will be to the righteous Saints who have gathered to the New Jerusalem here in America. In this place of refuge they will be safe from the wrath of the Lord which will be poured out without measure on all nations."

Prepare Yourself for the great day of the Lord Part 1 - YouTube

President Benson also said that "you are the generation that must be prepared to meet your God" and that was 30+ years ago. President Monson quoted from this same paragraph from this speech in October's conference.

In His Steps - Ezra Taft Benson

Edited October 25, 2011 by lds2

[lds2]

In a 'post-apocolyptic' event that seems to be the focus where we loose the use of cellular phones are unusable nation/world wide we will not have communication with the prophet. Things will be handled by the stake/ward leadership. There have been drills conducted in California that I know of where phones or autos could not be used and because things were so well organized it was deemed a success. If we did that in my area right now it wouldn't be so pretty but there is a written plan. I think we would all be very supprised to find both members and non-members getting together to ensure the best survival climate possible. I share the same fears about my own family but I believe we'd all pull together in our own areas, most of us at least. Even the unicorn would be put to work until it was called upon to sacrifice all. . I'm just an optimist on this issue. Zions's Camp comes to mind.

There are ham radios that are tucked away in safe locations or "hardened" for such an event. At least our stake leaders should still have direction. Even successful phone trees, however, will not put more food in the cupboards of the Saints if it isn't already there.

I don't trust that people will work together in friendly ways for survival...when I suggested to my best friend that she might want to have some home storage in case of emergency she said that it wasn't convenient for her to store food, but if it came to that she would "beg, borrow or steal" before HER family would go hungry. Many people have said their gun is their food storage...at least that is what people have said to me.

The great leaders that came out of Zion's Camp learned to be led by the Spirit and to be faithful in all things...I don't see how we can compare ourselves with them when we say that we won't prepare to be SELF-reliant as commanded by Heavenly Father Himself and instructed by our prophets.

[lds2]

I don't know that we WILL experience an EMP but in Gospel Principles lesson #43 that we just had in Church it talked of increasing earthquakes, famines, plagues, tsunamis/floods, etc. It talked of a hailstorm that will come and destroy all the Earth's crops...I hope all my friends here will have food in their homes before then!...because if we have to outbid China for what is left over...well lets just say "good luck with that."

I don't know how the prophets of our day can be more adamant than they have been in General Conference where we were instructed many times to be self-reliant. (See President Uchtdorf's talk on the front page of Provident Living here... Welfare and Self Reliance Principles | ProvidentLiving.org )

The Lord has been warning us for over 70 years that we must rely on ourselves for survival...if He planned on feeding us all with manna/miracles what would be the need of so many family resources being used/spent on His commandment to prepare for bad times?

President Packer came and told our previous stake president years ago that the prophets knew that their was a bad storm on the horizon...they just didn't know what it was yet. Then came President Hinckley's talks telling us of this economic storm...to me this storm still seems to be growing...

[mirkwood]

Many people have said their gun is their food storage...at least that is what people have said to me.

From an article I wrote on self defense:

Several years ago there was a program on KATU TV in Portland, Oregon. The show was called Town Hall. The host was a man named Jack Faust. He did a show covering the topic of Emergency Preparedness. He had guests on who spoke about what kinds of preparations they had made. One of his guests made a chilling statement, "I don't have to have supplies, but I know where he lives (pointing to the previous man). I have plenty of guns and ammunition. I plan to go take his stuff to support my family".

He was not joking, but was dead serious about using force to take what he needed from someone else to take of his family. Let me reiterate, there are people out there who will hurt you and take what you have because they can. There are lots of them who live in Salt Lake County. I know, I have talked with and arrested many of them. What if you had to deal with someone like that on your own? Are you prepared?

Here is another thought. I have spoken with people who have seen the next item happening at gun shows they have attended. Not too long ago, just prior to the Y2K scare, there was a group of individuals that were selling lists of "known" Mormons. They were selling Stake and Ward congregation directories. The idea behind this was, Don't worry about preparing yourselves, just use your guns to take what someone else has already prepared.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Loudmouth_Mormon

[Guest Magen_Avot]

There are ham radios that are tucked away in safe locations or "hardened" for such an event. At least our stake leaders should still have direction. Even successful phone trees, however, will not put more food in the cupboards of the Saints if it isn't already there.

I don't trust that people will work together in friendly ways for survival...when I suggested to my best friend that she might want to have some home storage in case of emergency she said that it wasn't convenient for her to store food, but if it came to that she would "beg, borrow or steal" before HER family would go hungry. Many people have said their gun is their food storage...at least that is what people have said to me.

The great leaders that came out of Zion's Camp learned to be led by the Spirit and to be faithful in all things...I don't see how we can compare ourselves with them when we say that we won't prepare to be SELF-reliant as commanded by Heavenly Father Himself and instructed by our prophets.

I think you misunderstand. It's easy to get the 'fear' and pack away a bunch of uzi's for your own protection. Can it happen as discussed? Oh yes. Katrina is an example where rouge cops went on the loose (those who were really prepared had already left). We don't have to trust people, we need to trust God. We should prepare but there is a lot of alarmist and fearful commenting swirling around and all we need is the calm assurance of the spirit.

The Zion's Camp comment was not a comparison but a thought that should we be put in such dire circumstances, we will be put to the test of rallying together under the direction of local leadership to pull our communities together rather than holding up with nothing but the muzzles of our guns bearing down on anyone who steps out onto the street. The worst senario would be a good person who fires off a few magazines and ends up with the blood of innocent men and (or) women and (or) children on their hands. Is that also part of self-reliance? One might want to add a few shovels,... or a bobcat if one is seriously more serious about taking life.

I will add to my preparedness my prayers and look to the Lord to warn me when it's time to get away from my neighbors for my own safety. I'm guessin' that will be a real bad thing if all my neighbors are LDS.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Magen_Avot

[Guest Magen_Avot]

It was almost exactly a year ago there was an "unexplained" missile launching over the West coast (and some say the East coast as well.) Mystery Missile Launch Seen off Calif. Coast - CBS News Had these been actual live missiles we could already be experiencing a 1600 AD type existence

This was an interesting occurance. I worked on high tech Navy cruisers in the Combat Systems department. I have seen many missile launches and the still picture of the above article was picture perfect to a missile launch. I was dead certain; however, upon watching the video it was painfully obvious that it was in fact an aircraft which matched a com air flight. This was mentioned the next day and was missed by many.

[lds2]

"It's not an aircraft contrail," says Theodore Postol, a professor of science, technology, and international security at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, also in Cambridge, Mass. "That I'm confident of...The contrail "has the spirals you would see in an advanced solid-rocket missile," he says. The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com article

What it was and why it was there has never been truly explained to everyone's satisfaction. My friend works for the FAA and he wasn't convinced it was a scheduled flight...FWIW

Regardless, the point of the example was that if it had been an EMP causing missile...we could have been thrust back into the middle ages type technology for survival just that quickly.

[lds2]

I think you misunderstand...We don't have to trust people, we need to trust God. We should prepare but there is a lot of alarmist and fearful commenting swirling around and all we need is the calm assurance of the Spirit.

Love those thoughts and totally agree with them...that is why I mostly try to stay with the words of the prophets for guidance...

The Zion's Camp comment was not a comparison but a thought that should we be put in such dire circumstances, we will be put to the test of rallying together under the direction of local leadership to pull our communities together...

I also agree with this thought...except that I don't believe we will be out of contact with the leadership of our Church very long.

I will add to my preparedness my prayers and look to the Lord to warn me when it's time to get away from my neighbors for my own safety. I'm guessin' that will be a real bad thing if all my neighbors are LDS.

I may owe you an apology...I've never met any optimists that have home storage as directed by the First Presidency of the Church. Most have what's in their cupboards and optimistically call it a "year supply or at least a three-month supply." If you are truly an optimist and have personally gathered a true three-month supply of foods you normally eat, water, and a longer-term supply of food for your entire family...then you would be the first I have ever talked to...except perhaps my husband...but then his gathering (as in hefting 50 pound containers around) isn't necessarily voluntary.

***

President Eyring in the Priesthood Session said, "This is the third time I am repeating this...always remember with me when I repeat something it is not boredom but inspiration...because the fact is, if I was told to do this again it must matter." (From my notes of his Priesthood Session Talk)

His talk on Safety in Council has been given/printed three times...

Henry B, Eyring, “Safety in Counsel” June 2008 First Presidency Message

Safety in Counsel - Liahona June 2008 - liahona

Henry B, Eyring, “Finding Safety in Counsel” November 2001 Ensign

Finding Safety in Counsel - Liahona Nov. 2001 - liahona

Henry B, Eyring, “Finding Safety in Counsel” April 1997 General Conference

Finding Safety in Counsel - Ensign May 1997 - ensign

The very last paragraph of the talk says:

"We are blessed to live in a time when the priesthood keys are on the earth. We are blessed to know where to look and how to listen for the voice that will fulfill the promise of the Lord that He will gather us to safety. I pray that we will have humble hearts, that we will listen, that we will pray, and that we will wait for the deliverance of the Lord that is sure to come as we are faithful."

***

Harold B. Lee

Conference Report, April 1948

Thus, clearly, the Lord has placed the responsibility for directing the work of gathering in the hands of the leaders of the Church to whom he will reveal his will where and when such gatherings would take place in the future.

It would be well before the frightening events concerning the fulfillment of all God's promises and predictions are upon us, that the Saints in every land prepare themselves and look forward to the instruction that shall come to them from the First Presidency of this Church as to where they shall be gathered and not be disturbed in their feelings until such instruction is given to them as it is revealed by the Lord to the proper authority.

***

Where and how we will be gathered (perhaps on the way to the New Jerusalem?) is a mystery, but I don't think most of us will have to decide what to do when that time comes if we have prepared and are looking as directed to the First Presidency...of course if it is truly a local event, or even an EMP or earthquake type event you would look to local leaders initially regardless...and we should always listen to the Spirit for guidance for safety of our own families.

Edited October 26, 2011 by lds2

[Guest Magen_Avot]

Love those thoughts and totally agree with them...that is why I mostly try to stay with the words of the prophets for guidance...

I also agree with this thought...except that I don't believe we will be out of contact with the leadership of our Church very long.

I may owe you an apology...I've never met any optimists that have home storage as directed by the First Presidency of the Church. Most have what's in their cupboards and optimistically call it a "year supply or at least a three-month supply." If you are truly an optimist and have personally gathered a true three-month supply of foods you normally eat, water, and a longer-term supply of food for your entire family...then you would be the first I have ever talked to...except perhaps my husband...but then his gathering (as in hefting 50 pound containers around) isn't necessarily voluntary.

Sounds like I used "optimist" in a way that confused both our points. I prefer to be "optimistic" in how I approach the unknown but periously described future. 30 years ago I'd be the one telling everyone to build emergency fallout shelters and everything that goes with it. My wife and I have an easy 6 months storage for some things and a years supply for certain staples and we even have a sealed food canister from the 50's in our storage (more as a show-&-tell). We also have a well. Anyway, we see that we may be called upon to help the community for intermediate periods rather than survive for years. I believe you are correct about communication with church headquarters in that it will likely be short lived if at all. I was pointing to the 'haulocaust' view (as I read into it) that would likely embrace "murphy's law and comms would be impossible. I guess you can see why I chose to simply put that I was an optimist.

As to the mystery missile event, I was not trying to poke a hole in your statement overall (was just interested in the event itself). I regret that I didn't explain better but I didn't want to hijack this thread.

I do respect your view and agree we should be better prepared than most of us are.

Oh, and one scenario we need to consider in my area is 'liquifaction'. This is where homes are swallowed into the moist soil due to the vibration of an earthquake. Sounds like fun doesn't it?

Edited October 26, 2011 by Magen_Avot

[pooter1]

Wow this has been interesting reading.Lots of thoughts and ideas. Here is what is sad.If something did happen my family wouldn't even have 2 weeks of storage let alone 2 years.I wish i felt like I really needed to do it.

[pam]

Wow this has been interesting reading.Lots of thoughts and ideas. Here is what is sad.If something did happen my family wouldn't even have 2 weeks of storage let alone 2 years.I wish i felt like I really needed to do it.

I would think that realizing this would give you the motivation to do something about it. Is it about you or is it about taking care of your family?

Edited October 27, 2011 by pam

[mirkwood]

I wish i felt like I really needed to do it.

Prophets and apostles telling you to do it isn't enough?

[pooter1]

Its all financial to me I know I could buy a can here a can there but I would never have enough money to buy two years worth.I keep thinking is something REALLY going to happen or can I go ahead and pay this bill? Maybe there is a book out there on how to have food storage for low income families.

[pam]

Its all financial to me I know I could buy a can here a can there but I would never have enough money to buy two years worth.I keep thinking is something REALLY going to happen or can I go ahead and pay this bill? Maybe there is a book out there on how to have food storage for low income families.

Don't concentrate on 2 years worth of food. Right now the directive is to have a 3 month supply of food that you normally eat right now. Even if it's picking up an extra can of soup when you go shopping you are adding to your 3 month supply.

Trying to think about 2 years supply is far too overwhelming.

[lds2]

My young adult son bought his 12 month "longer-term" supply for $250 dollars and he had a great selection of beans and grains (heavy on the rice)...since he went to Brazil on his mission he's already eaten that as his staple for 2 years and loves it. :)

Five years ago the First Presidency gave each family a copy of the "Prepare Every Needful Thing" pamphlet and told us that being prepared was a commandment from Heavenly Father, they then encouraged us that even if we could only get a can or two a week we should do it. HAD WE DONE THAT...we would now have

52 (weeks in a year) X 2 (extra items bought a week) X 5 (Years) = 520 - (18 cans not bought yet) You could have over 500 items of food in your three-month supply. Using the longer-term supply how it is supposed to be used supplementally...you could eat a cream of chicken sauce with mixed vegetables on a bed of rice with jello for dessert or spaghetti/meat sauce on pasta with breadsticks, etc. With cooked cereal for breakfast and popcorn as an evening snack from the "longer-term" supply the kids wouldn't even get hungry.

For most of us the money isn't the issue, and space isn't the issue...it is whether we will choose to be obedient to this commandment. We are encouraged to do many things like FHE, family history and serve well in our callings, etc. by the first presidency...we are commanded in few things (especially not by Heavenly Father)...so when we see that language we should REALLY TAKE NOTICE and do ALL we can to obey God's commandment.

http://providentliving.org/fhs/pdf/WE_FamilyResourcesGuide_International_04008_000.pdf

p.s. I've asked my family to give me food storage for Christmas before...it is an easy way to get longer-term storage...they can even have it shipped using the LDS catalog to just about anywhere in the US (although it is cheaper if they/you can buy it already canned in the case boxes at the "home storage" center...formerly known as the dry-pack canneries.)

Edited October 29, 2011 by lds2