Toaster Project

[mikbone]

Thomas Thwaites: How I built a toaster -- from scratch | Video on TED.com

I loved this video.

Its an excellent example as to how totally worthless we are as individuals.

This kind of example helps to explain why God continues to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

[I_Can_See]

I saw the video.

Please explain your view further. Not sure what you mean.

[slamjet]

...

Its an excellent example as to how totally worthless we are as individuals.

This kind of example helps to explain why God continues to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

Really? This is a type of example that in God's eye his goal is the saving of mankind as a mass?

[mikbone]

I saw the video.

Please explain your view further. Not sure what you mean.

Well, One man by himself is essentially worthless.

We take for granted all the wonderful things that we have in this world that were provided for us from the labors of others and the discoveries of generations before us.

This guy tried to make a toaster from scratch and after 9 months of research, work and cheating... He got the element to heat for 5 seconds before it broke.

I bet that God made us because he enjoys working with us and looks foreword to the things that we can do to contribute to the Celestial society.

Edited October 25, 2011 by mikbone

[mikbone]

Really? This is a type of example that in God's eye his goal is the saving of mankind as a mass?

Nope, its an example of why God wants us to be industrious and productive. I believe that He wants us to contribute.

[Dravin]

I can build a toaster from scratch, it's called a fire. Well, I suppose I would make use of a match or lighter, but considering he used a leaf blower for a bellows I don't think he can complain.

[slamjet]

Well, One man by himself is essentially worthless.

Ok, I'm not 100% up with this one, but I might be reading it wrong.

If what you are saying is that a man, as an island, is not going to progress and has very little, to no potential where as man, in cooperation within a community has the potential to be industrious and thus have personal progress as that man helps the community progress. Then I agree with you.

If you are saying that man, as an individual, is a failure and worth very little to nothing, then I think you're missing the point of the Gospel.

[mikbone]

Ok, I'm not 100% up with this one, but I might be reading it wrong.

If what you are saying is that a man, as an island, is not going to progress and has very little, to no potential where as man, in cooperation within a community has the potential to be industrious and thus have personal progress as that man helps the community progress. Then I agree with you.

If you are saying that man, as an individual, is a failure and worth very little to nothing, then I think you're missing the point of the Gospel.

Yeah, thats what I'm saying. The Gospel requires a community. God requires a community.

[I_Can_See]

Yeah, thats what I'm saying. The Gospel requires a community. God requires a community.

Still not clear on what you are saying.

How does the Gospel require a community? By the "Gospel" do you mean the Plan of Salvation or The Good News about what Christ has done for us?

And do you mean God needs a community for the Plan of Salvation to work for mankind as a whole, or that an individual needs a community to be redeemed? Do you mean just during the mortal state of our lives or are you including the post mortal existence?

And Slamjet asked "Is it this or that?" and you said yes.

Yes to which one?

Also are you talking about spiritual progress, or scientific/worldly progress.

So what exactly are you saying?

[mikbone]

The plan of salvation requires a community or more specifically, a family.

God needs and wants a very large family.

Yes scientific and spiritual progress.

The original premise for the toaster project comes from a book, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. In the book the protagonist has his 20th century knowledge and is sent to a society that exists in the bronze age. At first he figures that within a week he will be the king of society. But eventually he recognizes that in and of himself he cant do jack. All his suposed 20th century knowledge was totally worthless. There were no computers, and he certainly couldn't make one. No phone. He cant make penacillin. He gets hungry and realizes that he can barely make a sandwich but couldn't make a toaster if his life depended on it.

God made his children and the universe for a purpose. He could have made enough space to enclose our sun and solar system, but He didn't. There is alot of space out there for the using.

Without children Moses 1:39 becomes null and void.

[sister_in_faith]

I have a question... if suddenly all of our technology were to 'disappear', all of us, with our knowledge were left, but we had no tools or anything like that, how long would it take us to rebuild our society back to the level of technology we currently enjoy?

We would know HOW to mine minerals, but the miners would have to start from scratch to even build mining tools, etc, etc...

[slamjet]

The plan of salvation requires a community or more specifically, a family.

God needs and wants a very large family.

Yes scientific and spiritual progress.

The original premise for the toaster project comes from a book, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. In the book the protagonist has his 20th century knowledge and is sent to a society that exists in the bronze age. At first he figures that within a week he will be the king of society. But eventually he recognizes that in and of himself he cant do jack. All his suposed 20th century knowledge was totally worthless. There were no computers, and he certainly couldn't make one. No phone. He cant make penacillin. He gets hungry and realizes that he can barely make a sandwich but couldn't make a toaster if his life depended on it.

God made his children and the universe for a purpose. He could have made enough space to enclose our sun and solar system, but He didn't. There is alot of space out there for the using.

Without children Moses 1:39 becomes null and void.

This is quite confusing. I would comment but I have no clue what you are driving at let alone how one connects with the other.

[mikbone]

I have a question... if suddenly all of our technology were to 'disappear', all of us, with our knowledge were left, but we had no tools or anything like that, how long would it take us to rebuild our society back to the level of technology we currently enjoy?

We would know HOW to mine minerals, but the miners would have to start from scratch to even build mining tools, etc, etc...

Yeah, the guy in the video went to the department head of metalurgy at his local university and asked for advice on how to smelt iron ore from scratch. After an hour of lecture he realized that the learned man had no practical knowledge. So he actually went to a 1600 era text.

And there were no active mines in his country... I think that we rely upon China for our raw materials of metal now...

[Vort]

I have a question... if suddenly all of our technology were to 'disappear', all of us, with our knowledge were left, but we had no tools or anything like that, how long would it take us to rebuild our society back to the level of technology we currently enjoy?

We would know HOW to mine minerals, but the miners would have to start from scratch to even build mining tools, etc, etc...

If our technology and tools suddenly evaporated, we would have mass starvation and rioting, and a literal collapse of civilization. We would never recover our modern technological state, or at least it would take many generations, probably several centuries and perhaps much longer.

If we could magically avoid starvation after magically losing all our tech, it would take probably a couple of decades to regain our basic tools for making everything else, and probably a hundred years or more to form the economic base for high tech production.

[sister_in_faith]

Magic is cool.

[sister_in_faith]

Slamjet knows magic.

[I_Can_See]

The plan of salvation requires a community or more specifically, a family.

God needs and wants a very large family.

Yes scientific and spiritual progress.

The original premise for the toaster project comes from a book, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. In the book the protagonist has his 20th century knowledge and is sent to a society that exists in the bronze age. At first he figures that within a week he will be the king of society. But eventually he recognizes that in and of himself he cant do jack. All his supposed 20th century knowledge was totally worthless. There were no computers, and he certainly couldn't make one. No phone. He cant make penicillin. He gets hungry and realizes that he can barely make a sandwich but couldn't make a toaster if his life depended on it.

God made his children and the universe for a purpose. He could have made enough space to enclose our sun and solar system, but He didn't. There is alot of space out there for the using.

Without children Moses 1:39 becomes null and void.

I am still not clear on what you are saying. I agree that we need an eternal family according to God's plan but I don't think necessarily need a mortal family, community, or society to be celestial candidates. Moroni wasn't part of a society and he did very well spiritually.

But I took this post to be mostly about the mortal life. In which case I disagree. A toaster is a luxury. Most things we currently have are luxuries. There are a many a homesteader who built his home/farm/etc. by himself. Daniel Boone is a good example of that. He moved to Kentucky to get away from people. He built a log cabin and a small farm by himself so he could attract a good wife.

I worked in manufacturing for years and I can tell you that if we were to loose all our technology today but were to keep our knowledge that it would only take a fraction of the time it took to get here originally. Especially if it is money driven, which it always it. That is, of course, not taking into account any repairs to population or land caused by whatever disaster caused us to loose our technology.

And we have had toasters way before we ever had electricity. And, yes, I have thought about that there is no way a person could make a cell phone. But again that is a luxuries and there isn't an item of necessity that a man can't make on his own.

[I_Can_See]

If our technology and tools suddenly evaporated, we would have mass starvation and rioting, and a literal collapse of civilization. We would never recover our modern technological state, or at least it would take many generations, probably several centuries and perhaps much longer.

If we could magically avoid starvation after magically losing all our tech, it would take probably a couple of decades to regain our basic tools for making everything else, and probably a hundred years or more to form the economic base for high tech production.

If we magically avoided starvation and magically lost our tech then we would probably use that magic to fix it.

Poof!

It would really depend on what God wants to happen. He gave us the knowledge in the first place.

[Dravin]

If our technology and tools suddenly evaporated, we would have mass starvation and rioting, and a literal collapse of civilization. We would never recover our modern technological state, or at least it would take many generations, probably several centuries and perhaps much longer.

Particularly considering books and the like are a form of technology. When the mass die-off results you'll loose a lot of people who knew the information that was in those books and you won't just be going to the library to learn it back.

[mikbone]

I am still not clear on what you are saying. I agree that we need an eternal family according to God's plan but I don't think necessarily need a mortal family, community, or society to be celestial candidates. Moroni wasn't part of a society and he did very well spiritually.

But I took this post to be mostly about the mortal life. In which case I disagree. A toaster is a luxury. Most things we currently have are luxuries. There are a many a homesteader who built his home/farm/etc. by himself. Daniel Boone is a good example of that. He moved to Kentucky to get away from people. He built a log cabin and a small farm by himself so he could attract a good wife.

I worked in manufacturing for years and I can tell you that if we were to loose all our technology today but were to keep our knowledge that it would only take a fraction of the time it took to get here originally. Especially if it is money driven, which it always it. That is, of course, not taking into account any repairs to population or land caused by whatever disaster caused us to loose our technology.

And we have had toasters way before we ever had electricity. And, yes, I have thought about that there is no way a person could make a cell phone. But again that is a luxuries and there isn't an item of necessity that a man can't make on his own.

You can die at childbirth and be a celestial cantidate.

Moroni was part of society. He was well educated. Had access to multiple records from the Nephite society as well as the brass plates from an other society. He was a captain of 10,000 men during the last battle at Cumorah (Mormon 6:12).

Daniel Boone was also a strong member of a society. Books were written about him. He was an officer during the Revolutionary War and an elected official of Virginia. Did Daniel make his own firearms, and tools with which he used to build his cabin? I seriously doubt it.

I am an Orthopaedic surgeon. My profession is so specialized that if I were sent back in time to a bronze age society my skills and education would be a total waste. Without stainless steel and titanium hardware, let alone X-rays, my options of healing are severly limited. But today if you break your hip I am your guy. 200 years ago I could do nothing for you except possibly put you into a 20-30 pound hip spika cast that would cause lots of other problems... That's assuming that I could make casting materials, plaster of paris from scratch which I have never done... and was never taught to me during my medical education of 9 years...

Edited October 29, 2011 by mikbone