"The End of the World?"...Said President Packer

[lds2]

President Packer in his talk this past October said, "Today there are “wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth [is] in commotion.” You may feel uncertainty and insecurity in your lives...Sometimes you might be tempted to think as I did from time to time in my youth: “The way things are going, the world’s going to be over with. The end of the world is going to come before I get to where I should be.” Not so!

You can look forward to doing it right—getting married, having a family, seeing your children and grandchildren, maybe even great-grandchildren. If you will follow these principles, you will be watched over and protected and you yourself will know by the promptings of the Holy Ghost which way to go..."

Counsel to Youth - general-conference

***

I have heard this used as a reason for our generation to relax because nothing is really going to change for generations yet. But I don't think that is what President Packer was saying...because much has yet to happen before the "end of the world" comes. But it will be okay for those that have "followed the Spirit" on how to prepare and "which way to go" as they will make it through the challenges that lie ahead.

One thing we know is that the "Kingdom of God" will remain intact to see Jesus Christ's return and those saved for the "FINAL inning" must be prepared to "meet your God." President Monson recently said that we are among these strong ones saved for this time as he quoted part of this paragraph by President Benson, ""For nearly six thousand years, God has held you, most of you, in reserve to make your appearance in the final days before the Second Coming of the Lord. Every previous gospel dispensation has drifted into apostasy, but ours will not. True, there will be some individuals who will fall away; but the kingdom of God will remain intact to welcome the return of its head--even Jesus Christ. While our generation will be comparable in wickedness to the days of Noah, when the Lord cleansed the earth by flood, there is a major difference this time. It is that God has saved for the final inning some of his strongest children, who will help bear off the Kingdom triumphantly. And that is where you come in, for you are the generation that must be prepared to meet your God." (In His Steps" March 1979, BYU Devotional)

We are promised that if we are prepared we don't need to fear, here are some ways that we might make it through some of the more difficult trials ahead...

As far as the "desolating scourge" that will take many in the last-days, we are promised that if we are standing in "holy places" we will be okay. (This scourge was mentioned in President Benson's talk...see video below.)

As far as the last sign (one not yet at least partially fulfilled) that was mentioned in the "Signs of the Second Coming" lesson given a week or two ago...if we have our home storage as commanded we should make it through when God sends down hail to destroy all of the crops of the Earth...

We are promised that before the real wrath happens we will be gathered to a place of refuge...the New Jerusalem. (see also Article of Faith #10) So, the New Jerusalem will be in existence before "the end of the world" and we will see it in our lifetime if we will be gathered there for our safety and will "meet our God" there. President Benson said, "I realize this is an unpleasant topic on which to dwell. I take no delight in its portrayal, nor do I look forward to the day when calamities shall come upon mankind. But these words are not my own; the Lord has spoken them. Knowing what we know...can we hesitate to raise a warning voice to all who will listen that they may be prepared for the days ahead? Silence in the face of such calamity is sin!...One appearance will be to the righteous Saints who have gathered to the New Jerusalem here in America. In this place of refuge they will be safe from the wrath of the Lord which will be poured out without measure on all nations." (Prepare Yourself for the Great Day of the Lord, Conference April 1982)

President Benson talks of Jesus' first appearance to us in the New Jerusalem, then he talks of His visit to the Jews in Jerusalem and then the appearance that will mean the "end of the world". From his talk...

"One appearance will be to the righteous Saints who have gathered to the New Jerusalem here in America. In this place of refuge they will be safe from the wrath of the Lord which will be poured out without measure on all nations."

"Another appearance of the Lord will be to the Jews. To these beleaguered sons of Judah, surrounded by hostile Gentile armies, who again threaten to overrun Jerusalem, the Savior—their Messiah—will set His feet on the Mount of Olives, “and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.”

"Yet another appearance of Christ will be to the rest of the world. Here is His description of His coming: “The Lord shall be red in his apparel, and his garments like him that treadeth in the wine-vat."

These three visits will not be at the same time. His visit to the righteous Saints in the New Jerusalem will not be the same appearance as when he lifts them up to meet Him in His third appearance on the Earth. We also know after he saves the righteous Jews in Jerusalem they will be destroying the weapons of war for seven years afterwards.

President Packer was talking about Christ's LAST appearance in Glory, President Benson was talking about His FIRST appearance to the righteous Saints which will be much sooner. President Benson said (as I understand it) that most of those in their 50s and younger were saved for the "final inning" and must be ready to "meet their God" upon His "return" to Earth when He appears in the New Jerusalem...

A lot of people find these things too scary to think about, but we should remember the GREAT part of the "great (for the righteous) and terrible (for the wicked) day." Can you imagine a world with only righteous leaders, with one hundred percent employment, loving care of the old, no disease, no afflicted, no sickness. Can you imagine letting your children play outside without fear? Can you imagine a world with no evil temptations?

We'll have to get through some hard stuff first but if we are prepared as Heavenly Father has commanded us, we will be okay. I would love all of those blessings for myself, my children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. What great blessings there are for us in the future! Can you imagine that GREAT day when Jesus Christ will reign personally upon the Earth? How AWESOME!!!

Edited October 29, 2011 by lds2

[applepansy]

Threads like this bother me a bit. Its like focusing on the end instead of the journey.

I choose to focus on the journey.

[LittleWyvern]

I think what this illustrates is the difference between generations. 30 years ago, perhaps the problem was that not enough people were taking being prepared for the second coming seriously (I don't really know, I wasn't alive then). Now, if my experiences at BYU are any indication, the problem is leaning toward people being so paralyzed by fear that the second coming is going to happen this week or this month, that they obsess about that and forget a little bit about more worldly responsibilities. So now the message is to just live our lives to the fullest, fulfill our purpose, and worry about the second coming in a more passive sense (or, just continually be prepared for it when it happens and not worry about it).

And, I don't think pitting President Benson's words vs. President Packer's words is the right thing here. Sure, President Benson said that God has saved the youth of that generation, but so has President Hinckley and Monson (and many prophets before). Would it be wrong to take a different approach and say that those youth during President Benson were saved for the unique challenges of his day, and those youth born now were saved for the unique challenges of this day? That doesn't make one generation better than another, just more suited to the challenges that they will inevitably face. We learn in Jeremiah that God knows us better than we know ourselves, and knows our strengths and weaknesses. I would think He uses that knowledge to send us to Earth in very specific times. So, every generation is unique and saved for their specific generation.

[annewandering]

All I know is that when I die its the end of mortal existence for me and I need to be ready for that.

[lds2]

I think what this illustrates is the difference between generations. 30 years ago, perhaps the problem was that not enough people were taking being prepared for the second coming seriously (I don't really know, I wasn't alive then). Now, if my experiences at BYU are any indication, the problem is leaning toward people being so paralyzed by fear that the second coming is going to happen this week or this month, that they obsess about that and forget a little bit about more worldly responsibilities. So now the message is to just live our lives to the fullest, fulfill our purpose, and worry about the second coming in a more passive sense (or, just continually be prepared for it when it happens and not worry about it).

I have three adult children that are attending or recently graduated from BYU and BYU-I. They certainly don't believe that the second coming is going to happen in their lifetimes and to my knowledge none of their friends believe that either. We must know totally different young folks...:)

However, there is apprehension and insecurity similar to the early 80s regarding whether youth and young adults are going to be able to survive the harder economic times ahead, whether they should get married and whether they will be able to provide for their families if they have them. Some are delaying marriage and/or families as a result.

I really like your last idea as that is where we should all strive to be...to get prepared for if/when a calamity happens and then not worry about it...except when we can assist in helping other's prepare. That is what I do...I just helped my friend put up three years worth of "longer-term" storage. I love doing stuff like that because I know that they will have all the blessings of the obedient in the Last Days.

I don't want to cause any fear, but wake people up just long enough for them to prepare as commanded by Heavenly Father and then we can all "worry about the second coming in a more passive sense" and go forward building the Kingdom of God without fear knowing that we will be led as President Packer said in the "way to go" when that time comes.

Edited October 29, 2011 by lds2

[jonspaker]

annewandering

has very well say. End of world said the end of existence of life. and when my we will died whether together or alone, that's will be the exact time for us of ending of this beautiful world.

[lds2]

Threads like this bother me a bit. Its like focusing on the end instead of the journey. I choose to focus on the journey.

Who says that those with "gasoline" in their tanks aren't enjoying the journey?...to me it helps to know whether you are going to get to the most amazing and glorious destination in one piece...if we have already "filled up" and are storing the gas in our own "cars" rather than at the "gas station" that should be a good thing. I know that our experience is that there will always be "gasoline" at the station and we will always have sufficient money to pay for it, but what if there isn't?

As it is a commandment from Heavenly Father to have sufficient "gasoline" to get us through some rough times in the journey head, we should really stop and get it ASAP. He has been warning us of this fact for over 75 years because we will or our descendants will need it. Having it just in case, makes the journey FAR MORE ENJOYABLE as there is no need to "fear." Having "faith" that angels (or bishops and neighbors) will appear and push our cars, should we run out seems irresponsible as God has told us that we will need "gasoline" for ourselves and our families and should have our own (where possible). Even if you can only store a bit at a time...at least you know you are being obedient to the commandment and can still expect the blessings of obedience.

Edited November 1, 2011 by lds2

[RMGuy]

I don't fear. After all, "the only thing we have to fear, is fear itself."

-RM

[lds2]

The summary of President Hinckley's talk says, "We can so live that we can call upon the Lord for His protection and guidance. … We cannot expect His help if we are unwilling to keep His commandments." He then says, "We in this Church have evidence enough of the penalties of disobedience in the examples of both the Jaredite and the Nephite nations."..."Those of us who read and believe the scriptures are aware of the warnings of prophets concerning catastrophes that...are yet to come to pass."...(He tells us to read Matthew 24 and believe it that we should also believe what is written in the 88th section of the D&C concerning the calamities that will come "after the testimonies of the elders.")

He goes on to say, "we expect more (calamities) in the future. What do we do? Someone has said it was not raining when Noah built the ark. But he built it, and the rains came. The Lord has said, “If ye are prepared ye shall not fear” (D&C 38:30).

Heavenly Father has given us abundance we are told and HE COMMANDED us to "prepare every needful thing", at least that is what the First Presidency told us in their message to the Church in "Prepare Every Needful Thing" (2007.)

President Hinckley goes on to say, "Let us never lose sight of the dream of Pharaoh concerning the fat cattle and the lean, the full ears of corn, and the blasted ears; the meaning of which was interpreted by Joseph to indicate years of plenty and years of scarcity. I have faith...that the Lord will bless us, and watch over us, and assist us if we walk in obedience to His light, His gospel, and His commandments. He is our Father and our God, and we are His children, and we must be in every way deserving of His love and concern."

There are a lot of IFs in this talk...and IFs can be a little scary when it comes to calamities and commandments to prepare for them...

The Lord will bless us, and watch over us, and assist us IF we walk in obedience...

If ye are prepared ye shall not fear..."

So what happens IF you don't?

Sometimes a little fear, just enough to prod us to do something prudent like obey God's commandment's when he tells His people to build a boat...or gather some food...can be a good thing.

Edited November 1, 2011 by lds2

[Melissa569]

*sigh*......

I'll bit my tongue on this one.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Melissa569

[james12]

There are a lot of IFs in this talk...and IFs can be a little scary when it comes to calamities and commandments to prepare for them...

The Lord will bless us, and watch over us, and assist us IF we walk in obedience...

If ye are prepared ye shall not fear..."

So what happens IF you don't?

Sometimes a little fear, just enough to prod us to do something prudent like obey God's commandment's when he tells His people to build a boat...or gather some food...can be a good thing.

Really? So does the Lord use fear to accomplish his purposes? President Monson takes the exact scripture you quote above yet comes to a different conclusion, "Remember the promise of the Lord: “If ye are prepared ye shall not fear.” Fear is a deadly enemy of progress." (Pres. Thomas S. Monson, Ensign April 2008, "Treasure of Eternal Value") Elder Packer has said, "Fear is the opposite of faith". Scriptures are also clear "doubt not, fear not". Fear and faith cannot coexist in the same person at the same time.

I have no doubt that food storage is important and vital. However, should we take from the toolbox of the adversary to accomplish a righteous purpose?

I for one am getting a little worn out of this tactic. It motivates for all the wrong reasons. This tactic is often used when discussing the last days but I have seen it can creep into a host of other gospel topics. Is there not a better way?

[LittleWyvern]

Is there not a better way?

Something my mission president taught me was a sort of Gospel hierarchy of motivations. It goes like this: fear -> duty -> love. This was presented to me in the context of the reasons why we do things: sure, we may do things out of fear, but it is better to do them out of a sense of duty to God, but then it is even better to do things out of a love of God. All three are valid reasons, but love produces the most lasting and deep obedience. If you are only motivated by fear, you're more likely when challenged to think the thing you fear is stupid and not worth your time.

I think this applies to the way we encourage others to do things. Yes, fear works, but not very well (or, it might work well but not for very long). Awaking others to a sense of their duty works a little better, but there is something better still: reaching out to our fellow man out of a pure Christlike love. That's the best way, I think, of talking about any Gospel principle, especially one so stereotypical fearful like the Second Coming.

[lds2]

The truth is I care about and appreciate you all. I'm sorry, I should never have used that four letter word that begins with "f" and ends with an "r" as it is a loaded word and isn't what I want people to feel anyway.

I wish there were a way to help more of my brothers and sisters see the need for some "life preservers" in their life's boat...especially as there are unpredictable and uncharted seas ahead with the storm we know is coming.

You are correct though, changes only happen through faith and openness to the whisperings of the Spirit. I hope as you have read the words of the prophets they have touched your hearts. Unfortunately, my editorializing has not helped and only hindered their message...again, I'm sorry about that.

You my friends are among the noble and great ones, many of you were saved for this final inning to lead the Kingdom of God triumphantly in these last days. You are my brothers and sisters and I care about you and want the best for you.

May the Spirit touch your hearts and may you follow the Spirit's promptings in all things that you may have all that you need both spiritually and temporally to make it through the rough waters ahead.

That's my hope and my prayer for you all my friends,

Char

.

Edited November 1, 2011 by lds2

[LittleWyvern]

You are correct, though, changes only happen through faith and openness to the whisperings of the Spirit. I hope as you have read the words of the prophets they have touched your hearts. Unfortunately, my editorializing has not helped and only hindered their message...again, I'm sorry about that.

Oh, don't take this to mean that I'm saying your message is wrong. I didn't mean it that way: I totally agree with your message, I was just commenting on methods. Sorry if I wasn't very clear on that. :)

[lds2]

...President Monson takes the exact scripture you quote above yet comes to a different conclusion, "Remember the promise of the Lord: “If ye are prepared ye shall not fear.” Fear is a deadly enemy of progress." (Pres. Thomas S. Monson, Ensign April 2008, "Treasure of Eternal Value") Elder Packer has said, "Fear is the opposite of faith". Scriptures are also clear "doubt not, fear not". Fear and faith cannot coexist in the same person at the same time.

I have no doubt that food storage is important and vital...

Thanks for pointing us to this talk! I was confused and wondered what President Monson's message was, so here is a summary for all those like me that "need to know"... He says, "..."Prepare for the Future We live in a changing world...even...cataclysmic changes...Remember the promise of the Lord: “If ye are prepared ye shall not fear.” Fear is a deadly enemy of progress.

"...Years ago there was a romantic and fanciful ballad that contained the words, “Wishing will make it so / Just keep on wishing and care will go.” I want to state here and now that wishing will not replace thorough preparation to meet the trials of life. Preparation is hard work but absolutely essential for our progress. Our journey into the future will not be a smooth highway stretching from here to eternity. Rather, there will be forks and turnings in the road, to say nothing of the unanticipated bumps. We must pray daily to a loving Heavenly Father, who wants each of us to succeed in life. Prepare for the future..." ...

"One day each of us will run out of tomorrows. Let us not put off what is most important. Live in the present. Your treasure map is now in place: Learn from the past. Prepare for the future. Live in the present."

"Treasure of Eternal Value", Ensign, April 2008

President Monson

Great words! touches on many topics made by my friends in this thread...we must find joy in the journey, we should not fear, it's essential to prepare for the future, one day each of us will run out of tomorrows, we should not put off what is most important and we must pray daily to know what that is, do not delay, we must live (relish life) in the present.

.

Edited November 1, 2011 by lds2

[james12]

The truth is I care about and appreciate you all. I'm sorry, I should never have used that four letter word that begins with "f" and ends with an "r" as it is a loaded word and isn't what I want people to feel anyway.

I wish there were a way to help more of my brothers and sisters see the need for some "life preservers" in their life's boat...especially as there are unpredictable and uncharted seas ahead with the storm we know is coming.

You are correct, though, changes only happen through faith and openness to the whisperings of the Spirit. I hope as you have read the words of the prophets they have touched your hearts. Unfortunately, my editorializing has not helped and only hindered their message...again, I'm sorry about that.

You my friends are among the noble and great ones, many of you were saved for this final inning to lead the Kingdom of God triumphantly in these last days. You are my brothers and sisters and I care about you and want the best for you.

May the Spirit touch your hearts and may you follow the Spirit's promptings in all things that you may have all that you need both spiritually and temporally to make it through the rough waters ahead.

That's my hope and my prayer for you all my friends,

Char.

As LittleWyvern said, it was just the method not the message. Thanks for the truly thoughtful reply.

[alexm8]

We are not awaiting the END of the world, but the CHANGE of the world. The world will change when Christ comes again, not end. The END of the world, as I understand it, will be after the Millenium, the last resurrection, Satan will be loosed for a season, battle of Gog and Magog, etc. etc... I don't think many of us will be around to worry about that much by then.

As for change, everything changes. We just need to be ready and prepared for those changes. If ye are prepared, ye shall not fear. (D&C 38:30)

[mnn727]

I always dislike the lessons on the 'Signs of the Times' and (sorry but) also posts like the O.P. here. Not because they are wrong, but because we never know when our own personal end will come.

We are commanded to be ready always. I see otherwise good people saying there will be time for me to....... (do whatever it is they need/want to do) and tragically they die before they have time to do it.

Our lives need to be in order at all times. I remember a H.P. lesson where the instructor that Sunday, a former Mission President was talking about forgiving others and he said something profound (to me at least) and that was "We don't have time to hold a grudge, we need to forgive others as quickly as we can because, who knows when you may get hit by a bus or have a heart attack on the way home?

[lds2]

We are not awaiting the END of the world, but the CHANGE of the world. The world will change when Christ comes again, not end.

As for change, everything changes. We just need to be ready and prepared for those changes. If ye are prepared, ye shall not fear. (D&C 38:30)

Great thoughts.

As for what President Packer meant by the "End of the World" it is hard to say as he basically only mentions it as a fear and not even as an event...I've heard it spoken of as "The End of the World as We Know It", "The End of the Wicked", "The Second Coming", etc.

There will be an end to the way we've known it when the world is changed to a Terrestrial state, and then again when it changes to a Celestial one...

[lds2]

"I realize this is an unpleasant topic on which to dwell. I take no delight in its portrayal, nor do I look forward to the day when calamities shall come upon mankind. But these words are not my own; the Lord has spoken them.

But knowing what we know...can we hesitate to raise a warning voice to all who will listen that they may be prepared for the days ahead? Silence in the face of such calamity is sin!...One appearance will be to the righteous Saints who have gathered to the New Jerusalem here in America. In this place of refuge they will be safe from the wrath of the Lord which will be poured out without measure on all nations." (Prepare Yourself for the Great Day of the Lord, Conference April 1982)

No need for apology Mnn727...Even President Benson didn't enjoy hearing about or talking about these things!

As you say "our lives must be in order at all times" because we never know what lies ahead of us.

We do know that Heavenly Father has commanded our generation to "Prepare Every Needful Thing" for the times ahead. Heavenly Father's commandment to us can be found here...

https://lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/04008_eng.pdf?lang=eng (PAGE 2)

.

Edited April 23, 2012 by lds2

[lds2]

From Elder Ballard's talk at the BYU-I commencement on April 6, 2012...

"As I prepared for this talk today, I asked for guidance to know what message our Heavenly Father would want me to share with you. The calming and assuring words spoken by the Lord to Joseph Smith came to my mind: “Be of good cheer, for I will lead you along. The kingdom is yours…and the riches of eternity” (D&C 78:1.

What I believe the Lord wants me to tell you is that you should replace fear with faith—faith in God and the power of the Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ."

"So, I urge you to make a commitment to yourself and to Heavenly Father to dedicate your life and consecrate your time and talents to the building up of the Church of Jesus Christ in anticipation of the Savior’s second coming. Let the motive of your thoughts and actions be to glorify God and to bless your fellowman. Let this desire inspire you to greet each new morning with enthusiasm, let it fuel your thoughts and actions throughout each day. If you do this, you will be blessed in the midst of a world that is fast losing its way, and you and your loved ones will be secure and happy. This does not mean that you will not face trials and tests, but it does mean you will have the spiritual power to handle them with faith and trust in the Lord."

[Guest]

Not much different than what the Lord has been telling the Saints since the Restoration.

But we can be sure that the world will end this year, since D ick Clark isn't around to ring in 2013. Right?

[lds2]

"Greet each new morning with enthusiasm, let it fuel your thoughts and actions throughout each day. If you do this, you will be blessed..."

Great words... Great promise... :)

Nothing really new...I just really liked the quote so I put it here because his words seemed to echo those of President Packer's talk in many respects

[John_kindhearted]

Mark 13:32 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but ONLY the Father."

Excludes Holy Spirit. Excludes Jesus.

In the Name of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful
The Qur'an 33.63 "People ask you about the (final) Hour: Say: "Its knowledge is with Allah (Alone):" And what will make you understand? Just in case the Hour is near!"
The Qur'an 20:15 '"Verily the Hour is coming - My design is to keep it hidden - for every soul to receive its reward by the measure of its Endeavour."
The Qur'an 22:7 "And verily the Hour will come: there can be no doubt about it, or about (the fact) that Allah will raise up all who are in the graves."
The Qur'an 15:99 "And serve thy Lord until there come unto thee the Hour that is Certain."
The Qur'an 25:11 "Nay they deny the hour (of the judgment to come): but We have prepared a blazing fire for such as deny the hour:"
The Qur'an 75:36-40
075.036 Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled, (without purpose)?
075.037 Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)?
075.038 Then did he become a leech-like clot; then did (Allah) make and fashion (him) in due proportion.
075.039 And of him He made two sexes, male and female.
075.040 Has not He, (the same), the power to give life to the dead?
Al-Qur'an, 075.036-040 (Al-Qiyama [The rising of The dead, resurrection])

How do we get to Paradise?

The Mercy of God.

The Prophet (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: "Whoever witnesses that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Messenger, Allah forbids the Fire from touching him." Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim
Those are the answers in Islam (interpretation: Submission to the Will of God).
Any wrong ideas about Islam are thoroughly cleared up when reading The Qur'an. People have taken opinions over truth.

[Timpman]

Enough comments about this topic not being worth discussing! Every Priesthood lesson manual I've seen has a chapter or two about the Second Coming and the Millennium. Prophets seem to enjoy speculating about general timeframes, so it's okay to discuss that as well.

lds2: We are promised that before the real wrath happens we will be gathered to a place of refuge...the New Jerusalem. (see also Article of Faith #10) So, the New Jerusalem will be in existence before "the end of the world" and we will see it in our lifetime if we will be gathered there for our safety and will "meet our God" there.

I really hope this is true! I want to go to the New Jerusalem before the real wrath happens. Is there any support for this theory?