My Daughter And Early Morning Seminary


Royalohh
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Ok heres the deal. My daughter has just informed her mother and myself she dosnt want to go to Seminary. This is totally out of the blue. She was ok with it and talked about it for a long time now blam she is totally against the idea.

A little background, one we homeschool ( I really dont wanna hear any negatives about this ) we are doing a little investigating and trying to find a reason for the change, havnt found one yet and cant get a good reason from her other then I dont want to. She knows everyone in seminary and shes not the only one homeschooled. the only thing we have so far is her best friend recently moved away and maybe shes feeling seperated from the others. the other thing is we have had a run of bad luck and are down to one working vehicle. and due to policy the teacher isnt allowed to give rides to any of the students so no way to get her to Seminary due to me leaving for work at 5 and so forth. Problem solved right .... Wrong my wife is ordering the things we need to teach her at home untill we can get her back to classes with the others. I agree with my wife I feel she needs to go thats our decision period. the thing is i have that nagging thing in my head that keeps saying .... Hey what about free will dosnt she get a choice? I then start arguing with myself about how much freedom and choice to give a 14-1/2 yr old (yeah she lets us know that 1/2 I am waiting on the 3/4 to pop up soon) . Yes I know they have to make mistakes to learn and I know if you let them run free that it can be a bad thing also sooooooooo....

What I am asking is for any of you Parents of Seminary age girls and boys have you faced this? are you facing this and whats your thoughts?

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I think you need to find out what the real issue is. If it's lack of friends in the class, now that her one friend has moved away, maybe have some social activities at your house so she can get to know others better. If she doesn't like the idea of getting up for early morning seminary, then hold seminary at the same time in your home.

I think that you just need to sit down with her and ask her to be open with you, and that you really want to find out what is bothering her. Maybe she doesn't really know, and ask her to take some time to think about it and get back to her. Whatever the reasons maybe, don't make it about you and your wife and what you want and expect. I would ask her what kind of standard she wants to hold for herself and what she wants to achieve, and then how she is going to go about reaching those goals.

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the thing is i have that nagging thing in my head that keeps saying .... Hey what about free will dosnt she get a choice? I then start arguing with myself about how much freedom and choice to give a 14-1/2 yr old (yeah she lets us know that 1/2 I am waiting on the 3/4 to pop up soon) .

Personally, as a parent of a 15 1/2 year old girl, if it were me, the choice would be 'either go to seminary or stay home and do it at the same time as if you went'. You don't just cut the strings and let them do whatever they want at a young age. You need to slowly let them get involved in the decision process, until it gets to a point where both you and the child are comfortable with their ability to make good choices. You as a parent are still responsible for them until they reach the age of majority.

I also agree with the others that it sounds as though there is something else going on that needs to be addressed. You should sit down and find out just what the real problem is.

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Yes there are issues for sure. We have sat down with her talked and tried to get her to talk to us and figure out whats going on. She is being a bit stubburn not wanting to really talk to us. That is also unusual for her I have always been able to sit with her and talk and can usually get to the bottom of a problem pretty quick but not this time at least not yet. We (meaning my wife and I) are starting to lean towards her going through some church issues. I found out last night she hasnt been paying her tithing and she has not wanted to go to YW more and more. We are going to talk to her leaders this sunday and see if they have noticed anything also. She isnt kept locked up she has many things she does and opportunities to do things plus the co-op we go to. I am leaning more towards Lazy, she also just got back from her Grandparents was there for the last 6 weeks only been home a week and I know she was spoiled rotten while she was there. We are getting the Seminary information we need to teach her at home and yes we are going to make her get up and do it at the same time as if she was going with the group.

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Maybe your daughter just doesn't like getting up so early and is sleep-deprived because of it, and knows that it's not good for her...

Yes, this is coming from a non-LDS point of view, but even if I was LDS I would still feel the same way. Teenagers are not the same as adults... they are not morning people. There are studies to show that they do better in school if they don't have to get up so early. It's biological... the melatonin production in teens is delayed, making them fall asleep later. There are some advocates for high school beginning at 10 instead of 8 for this very reason. And seminary starts at what... 5:30 - 6:00?

Perhaps with the new knowledge we have on this subject, the church should change its stance on this - perhaps seminary should be held after school, as opposed to before school?

http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-health/art...or-Teenagers%3F

Here's another relevant and interesting article... http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct01/sleepteen.html

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<div class='quotemain'>

...A little background, one we homeschool ( I really dont wanna hear any negatives about this )...

Why would you assume that someone would reply with a negative comment on home schooling? :huh:

M.

Maureen I wish it wasnt easy for me to assume someone will but we have been homeschooling for many years and there is always someone that will start the negatives when they hear about it. In and out of the church. I could write a book I swear. I just wanted to put it up front "if you dont have anything nice to say then keep it to yourself"

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My nieces and nephews home-school. Working extremely well. 6th graders already scoring at post high school levels. Others we know 3rd grade still can't read. There are pros and cons. My associates always see "home-schoolers" as extreme "weirdoes" because of their stance on many things. I wouldn’t mind home schooling my children. :)

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<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

...A little background, one we homeschool ( I really dont wanna hear any negatives about this )...

Why would you assume that someone would reply with a negative comment on home schooling? :huh:

M.

Maureen I wish it wasnt easy for me to assume someone will but we have been homeschooling for many years and there is always someone that will start the negatives when they hear about it. In and out of the church. I could write a book I swear. I just wanted to put it up front "if you dont have anything nice to say then keep it to yourself"

I don't want to turn this into something that you don't want it to be about homeschooling, but I admire you for doing it if that's something that works for your family. I have contemplated this myself (homeschooling my 4 yr old when he starts school) and have decided against it, but I think it can be wonderful.

Sure, there are the nutcases that do it, but many homeschoolers are able to succeed at giving their children a premium education, while providing them with the social activities they need and thrive on.

I know what you mean though... when I was discussing it with my friends, the first thing out of their mouths would be, "No, you don't want to do that..." "Those kids aren't socialized", etc. That may have been the case, but no longer has to be.

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Maybe your daughter just doesn't like getting up so early and is sleep-deprived because of it, and knows that it's not good for her...

Yes, this is coming from a non-LDS point of view, but even if I was LDS I would still feel the same way. Teenagers are not the same as adults... they are not morning people. There are studies to show that they do better in school if they don't have to get up so early. It's biological... the melatonin production in teens is delayed, making them fall asleep later. There are some advocates for high school beginning at 10 instead of 8 for this very reason. And seminary starts at what... 5:30 - 6:00?

Perhaps with the new knowledge we have on this subject, the church should change its stance on this - perhaps seminary should be held after school, as opposed to before school?

http://www.hpakids.org/holistic-health/art...or-Teenagers%3F

Here's another relevant and interesting article... http://www.apa.org/monitor/oct01/sleepteen.html

Yes I hear you shanstress and I have read those articles and if I was asked if my daughter was a morning person I would say not a chance. But (you knew that was comming right?) I am not so old that I dont remember what it was like when i was a kid 5 or 6 am early mornings late nights and so on. I sometimes think its funny how all the sudden todays children dont have enough chemicals in their bodies to do the things we did and our parents and grandparents did and have been doing for the last 100 + years..... Well this is a good topic for another thread lol. and yes I believe children need rest and more then 5 or 6 hours but if she can get up early to watch a cartoon or go meet her friends then dog gone it she can get up early to do seminary.

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I am not so old that I dont remember what it was like when i was a kid 5 or 6 am early mornings late nights and so on. I sometimes think its funny how all the sudden todays children dont have enough chemicals in their bodies to do the things we did and our parents and grandparents did and have been doing for the last 100 + years.....

Yep, I did know it was coming. I don't think that the body makeup has changed at all. We just have more knowledge about things like that than we did when you and I were children. That's a good thing... right?

My MIL often says things like that, about how they didn't have car seats or protective covers on outlets, or cabinet locks, and jokes about how "I don't know how we survived without all those things, but we did." Actually, lots of children didn't survive. There were many more accidents back then where children were killed or injured.

Knowledge is power... right?

Now just in case you bring up ADHD, I agree with you to some extent. Although there are some kids who need the meds they have for it now, many more are medicated unnecessarily. It makes parenting a bit easier. But coming from a parent of one of these 'intense' or 'spirited' children, I vow to never put my child on that medication unless he truly cannot function or learn without it. To me, when you do that you 'kill' a part of their special, lively personality.

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My nieces and nephews home-school. Working extremely well. 6th graders already scoring at post high school levels. Others we know 3rd grade still can't read. There are pros and cons. My associates always see "home-schoolers" as extreme "weirdoes" because of their stance on many things. I wouldn’t mind home schooling my children. :)

I don't know if I see "home-schoolers" as extreme weirdoes. I think you can find extreme weirdoes in public and private schools too :) I'd never consider doing it, because I think of everything I would've missed out on if I didn't have the social benefits of public school.

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So you know I have no problem with talking about homeschooling just tired of the negative talkers. I will talk with anyone that have serious questions even those that question why as long as its an honest question and not one to start an argument.

as for the the ADHD and medication that was mentioned. My daughter was diagnosed with ADD and we have done MANY things to try not to medicate but for a short time we ended up having to a little over a year until we noticed changes in her and stopped she still has some attention problems but dosnt need the meds anymore. of course that is another thing we have to take into account with her decisions not to do seminary. I just wonder if other parents have gone through this with their daughters or sons at this age. might have to track Ben down I think he has a few daughters around this age and see if hes been through it.

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I don't know if I see "home-schoolers" as extreme weirdoes. I think you can find extreme weirdoes in public and private schools too :) I'd never consider doing it, because I think of everything I would've missed out on if I didn't have the social benefits of public school.

Id love to talk about this more Heather (seriously thinking about making a new Genaral topic) Probably not here though what do you think new Topic or would it be one of those Flame war topics best not even started? opinions?

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I don't think a topic like that would get out of hand, especially when it's LDSTalk.com's rules to respect one another and different beliefs. I also think that many of the posters are parents who only have the very best in mind for their children. I completely agree that parents who decide to home school are doing it because they feel it's in the very best interest of their child. For that alone I respect those who chose to do it.

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Ok heres the deal. My daughter has just informed her mother and myself she dosnt want to go to Seminary. This is totally out of the blue. She was ok with it and talked about it for a long time now blam she is totally against the idea...

...whats your thoughts?

This is a long shot but you could try this. I have two examples of people: one that went to Seminary who is now anti-Mormon (my husband) and one that rarely went to Seminary (and rarely went to HS for that matter and did not graduate) and is definitely a true-blue-Mormon.

Now my husband is quite proud that he survived Seminary (will admit that he did his fair share of sleeping through it), but did receive his Seminary pin.

My friend on the other hand barely went to HS let alone Seminary. I would guess that it would be easier for a parent who also attended Seminary to be an example for their children. I know that she insisted all her children going through HS attend Seminary (even though she didn't herself). Now if I were her child and I knew that my mother did not herself attend Seminary (I don't think most of children know she did not go), I would think that she is being a bit hypocritical with her insistence (the do as I say and not as I do thing).

So even though there is no guarantee that your daughter will stay Mormon by attending Seminary, her future children can't hold it against her, if she sets a good example now. This may seem like a strange type of psychology, but it might work.

Just my (a non-LDS's) thoughts...

M.

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So even though there is no guarantee that your daughter will stay Mormon by attending Seminary, her future children can't hold it against her, if she sets a good example now. This may seem like a strange type of psychology, but it might work.

Just my (a non-LDS's) thoughts...

M.

This isnt about my fears of whether my daughter will leave the LDS Faith If anything its her rebelling against me and her mother not wanting to do something we consider important but that she for now sees as a pain. We wish her to go to Seminary for so many reasons a better understanding of the church and its doctrin a part of it yes but I believe there is also something learned and gained by doing it and acomplishing the task of getting up early working to learn the scriptures and learning the values we as her parents cherish.

Its interesting because she loves EFY and Super Saturday and Young Women on wednsday she is always ready and willing and happy on sunday for church, never a complaint there but so adament about not wanting the Seminary class kinda frustrating actually.

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...but I believe there is also something learned and gained by doing it and acomplishing the task of getting up early working to learn the scriptures and learning the values we as her parents cherish.

Its interesting because she loves EFY and Super Saturday and Young Women on wednsday she is always ready and willing and happy on sunday for church, never a complaint there but so adament about not wanting the Seminary class kinda frustrating actually.

Some questions Royal:

Does your daughter feel that she might be missing out on other things, having to go to bed early, that might be making her dread Seminary?

Is it the "academic" part of Seminary that she might not be looking forward to? - since EFY, etc look more like social/activity based events.

Is she a morning person or a night owl?

M.

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