JoePa has been fired!

[Carl62]

A sad day in what is now the "not-so-happy" valley.

[Vort]

I was just going to make a poll about this.

[annewandering]

What is sad is knowing that a 10year old was sodomized in the shower by a co worker and no one did anything about it and that that kind of thing had been going on for a long time. Anyone who thinks Catholic priests should have not been shielded and then thinks this should have been let go on is a hypocrite.

[Vort]

Which option better represents your views on Joe Paterno's firing?

[annewandering]

I dont see a poll but he deserved what he got and more.

[beefche]

I need an option of "I don't know yet." I'm sad that such a great coach is leaving under such circumstances. But, from my readings of the reports, I'm not sure of what Coach was told. I do think he should have done more than just tell the AD, but I'm not sure how far he should have taken it considering that the grand jury isn't even sure of what was reported to Coach.

[Jenamarie]

I keep thinking what that boy must have felt, having someone walk in and SEE him being raped, thinking that maybe he was about to be saved, and then... nothing. (I realize that wasn't Paterno that saw it, but he KNEW! He KNEW!)

I heard someone on the radio refer to this as "A Conspiracy of Cowards". They truely were, if they were willing to turn their backs on innocent children being RAPED under their very noses.

[Guest]

Who?

[Vort]

(I realize that wasn't Paterno that saw it, but he KNEW! He KNEW!)

Not really. He was given a second-hand report. In retrospect, it seems obvious that he should have pushed harder, but at the time he did exactly what he was required to do. College sports is all about compliance with rules, and when you get in that mindset, it can be difficult to step outside it.

Paterno himself says that in retrospect he wishes he had done more. But his firing is pure political posturing. It does not help the raped little boy, it does not help the school, it does not help the justice system. It's a political reaction against the outrage caused by the appalling accusation. Frankly, it's cowardly, and I'm disgusted with my alma mater's reaction. Or at least, the reaction of the board.

[annewandering]

Whats cowardly is that the guy doing the raping wasnt fired immediately. What a bunch of crock. the only politics I see is a bunch of people covering a pedophiles rear end to protect their reputation and sports program.

Makes me wonder if there werent more of them there than the one charged with pedophilia. It was certainly a safe environment for them.

[Jenamarie]

Not really. He was given a second-hand report. In retrospect, it seems obvious that he should have pushed harder, but at the time he did exactly what he was required to do. College sports is all about compliance with rules, and when you get in that mindset, it can be difficult to step outside it.

Paterno himself says that in retrospect he wishes he had done more. But his firing is pure political posturing. It does not help the raped little boy, it does not help the school, it does not help the justice system. It's a political reaction against the outrage caused by the appalling accusation. Frankly, it's cowardly, and I'm disgusted with my alma mater's reaction. Or at least, the reaction of the board.

Required to do by the school, perhaps, but morally? If someone at your place of work made you aware that they'd just seen a child being rapped, is telling your supervisor the only thing you'd do?

ETA: And especially considering the fact that the person being accused of raping the child runs an out-reach program for children!

Edited November 10, 2011 by Jenamarie

[cbcmariners77]

I really don't like the poll, that's for sure. He DID do the bare minimum. But "burn the devil!" seems like it doesn't fit, either.

[MarginOfError]

Required to do by the school, perhaps, but morally? If someone at your place of work made you aware that they'd just seen a child being rapped, is telling your supervisor the only thing you'd do?

ETA: And especially considering the fact that the person being accused of raping the child runs an out-reach program for children!

Someone will have to confirm this for me, but my understanding is that reporting to his supervisors is the only thing he could have done having not witnessed it himself. If he were to go directly to the police and it turned out to be false, he and the organization could come under fire for defamation.

I believe it works the same way in school systems, and it works the same way in scouting. If you see it first hand, you can call the police. But if you have reason to suspect, you report to your supervisor, and the supervisor makes the call on what to do from there.

Saying that Paterno had a moral imperative to take further action is a non-starter for me, unless he personally witnessed the event. This falls on the supervisors.

It goes further than this, too. From what I understand, the mother of one of these victims confronted Sandusky in front of police officers. Those officers testified to a grand jury that Sandusky admitted the abuse, and that testimony never made it beyond the grand jury. There's clearly something very egregious going on here, but there is zero evidence that Paterno had any part in it.

I agree with Vort that firing Paterno is a cowardly act meant to appease the the masses that don't understand that, unless further evidence is uncovered, Paterno met all the legal requirements and limits imposed on his position.

[annewandering]

God save us from the minimum required. And God save the kids hurt by it.

[slamjet]

I read the PA law regarding mandated reporting and he did satisfy the letter of the law. But it seems to me that in doing so, and keeping him on staff shows he either didn't believe it, or didn't want it to get in the way of something. You don't get to the position Paterno attained without compromising on something. In his case, it seems that his stature over-ran his moral center. Plus, what I've seen of his attitude after the revelations, and his wanting to retire with "honor and dignity" either seriously shows that he is wrapped up in his grandeur, is disconnected from reality, has no empathy skills, or a combination of any or all of these.

In any case, it definitely shows what happens when a bunch of students raise a mortal human to god-like stature. Serious lack of seeing what's really real to the point of vilifying the victims.

[beefche]

I You don't get to the position Paterno attained without compromising on something.

Huh? What position? As a head coach? Are you saying that becoming a successful head coach means he has to compromise on moral standards? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.

[slamjet]

Huh? What position? As a head coach? Are you saying that becoming a successful head coach means he has to compromise on moral standards? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here.

Not as a successful head coach. But an iconic and defacto ruler of the school. His organization brought in a lot of money to the school. Giving him a lot of "power." From the Washington Post:

In his written statement, Paterno arrogantly informed the board of trustees it “should not spend a single minute discussing” his status. He had decided how he would leave, and in his mind, that was the end of it.

For decades, Paterno wielded the authority to make that call. With a Division I-record 409 victories and two national championships, he was the ultimate authority on campus. Once, when school officials asked him to retire, Paterno laughed and kept doing his thing. He had that type of juice.

You don't get to the point of that kind of status without compromising something.

[beefche]

So, this opinion piece is evidence that he has compromised something to be successful? I'm still not seeing how, in and of itself, a successful football coach makes him a defacto ruler of the school and thus compromise something to get there. Sure, he is an icon for the school. It's hard not to be when he has achieve what he has achieved. But, that doesn't necessarily means he compromised something to get there.

I'm not saying he hasn't, but I find your statement of such to be rather outlandish considering I still haven't seen what you are seeing that proves he compromised something to be successful.

[annewandering]

If he tolerates pedophilia then he certainly did compromise something unless he figures its fine.

[slamjet]

So, this opinion piece is evidence that he has compromised something to be successful? I'm still not seeing how, in and of itself, a successful football coach makes him a defacto ruler of the school and thus compromise something to get there. Sure, he is an icon for the school. It's hard not to be when he has achieve what he has achieved. But, that doesn't necessarily means he compromised something to get there.

I'm not saying he hasn't, but I find your statement of such to be rather outlandish considering I still haven't seen what you are seeing that proves he compromised something to be successful.

But what was he successful at? If it's creating and maintaining a football program, then ok, success. But in trying to reach and maintain that goal and success he compromised morals for the sake of the program, then there is something wrong with that mindset. In the end he compromised something of great value to maintain the football program, and in the end, he lost.

[beefche]

Do ya'll know something I don't? Seriously, can you point me to an article or something that shows what he knew about the incident? From what I've read, all I've seen was that the guy who reported seeing something has been inconsistent on what he actually reported. "I saw Man raping a 10 year old" is very different than "I saw Man messing with a 10 year old." And from what MOE reported, unless Coach witnessed something first hand, he may not have been able to report anything more to anyone.

I'm not trying to defend someone who is a true pedophile, but don't we all love to condemn those accused of such a horrendous act without finding out any evidence of such? Accusations, in the case of child molestation, equals a verdict of guilty, unfortunately.

[annewandering]

A man messing with a ten year old is a pedophile. A man raping a 10 year old is a pedophile. both should have been dealt with no matter the scandal to the school or sports department.

[beefche]

Good to know that you'll convict a man on nothing more than a second hand report of conflicting information.

[annewandering]

No but I wont let it go till it is investigated which it never was and that is the problem.

[slamjet]

Good to know that you'll convict a man on nothing more than a second hand report of conflicting information.

I read the grand jury testimony. I'm not going into detail here, nor will I post the link to it because I believe it would be appropriate for this forum. But those who were fired, quit and/or arrested were well aware of what was going on including Paterno. With what it said, the trustees really had no choice in the matter.