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prisonchaplain

What Do You Think About My Beliefs About: God's Nature?

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I'm preparing to teach a Sunday School class (adults) that will first focus on my own church's teachings about fundamental doctrines. After the two-week "Crash Course on the Fundamentals," we're going to explore how other churches view our doctrines. The first group we'll compare with is the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints. Fear not, as the main part of the curriculum, I'll use http://www.mormon.org, and perhaps secondarily, FAIR and FARMS. However, there may be some interesting thoughts and impressions you have as well.

While I doubt my class will be converting en masse to the COJCLDS, I've already stated that our goal is more to better understand what we believe in contrast to other groups, rather than to debunk or "bash" anyone else.

To me, it's like visiting another country for several months, and then returning home. You see yourself and your community in ways you never have! (Returning Missionaries should be able to shout up an AMEN! on that one. :D )

Here's the official statement:

We believe there is only one true God--revealed in three persons...Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (commonly known as the Trinity). We Believe...in the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. As God's son Jesus was both human and divine.

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Okay.. here is where I have a problem.. Explain the trinity? Because Jesus, Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit are certainly not one! They are three seperate things... and eeeee.... God doesn't want us confused... The God Head is soo much easier!

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Okay.. here is where I have a problem.. Explain the trinity? Because Jesus, Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit are certainly not one! They are three seperate things... and eeeee.... God doesn't want us confused... The God Head is soo much easier!

I can't explain it clearly myself, so I'll post something I found on the web....

trinity" is a term that is not found in the Bible but a word used to describe what is apparent about God in the Scriptures. The Bible clearly speaks of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit...and also clearly presents that there is only one God. Thus the term: "Tri" meaning three, and "Unity" meaning one, Tri+Unity = Trinity. It is a way of acknowledging what the Bible reveals to us about God, that God is yet three "Persons" who have the same essence of deity.

Some have tried to give human illustrations for the Trinity, such as H2O being water, ice and steam (all different forms, but all are H2O). Another illustration is an egg having a shell, egg yolk and egg white, but this egg illustration shows that there would be "parts" to God, which isn't the case.

God the Son (Jesus) is fully, completely God. God the Father is fully, completely God. And God the Holy Spirit is fully, completely God. Yet there is only one God. In our world, with our limited human experience, it's tough to understand the Trinity. But from the beginning we see God this way in Scripture. Notice the plural pronouns "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:26 -- Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Though not a complete list, here is some other Scripture that shows God is one, in Trinity:

* "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" (Deut. 6:4)

* "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." (Isa. 45:5)

* There is no God but one. (1Cor. 8:4)

* And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (Matt. 3:16-17)

* "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

* Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

* "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

* "He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)

* If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Rom. 8:9)

* "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20)

* And the angel answered and said to her [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)

* [Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23)

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Okay.... Jesus isn't "God" though.. the bible says he is the SON of God..

And yet....He is "God" at the same time....

* Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

* "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

* "He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)

Josh B)

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The last two can easily mean they look alike, the first one, they are one in purpose.

If I said, "if you have seen me, you have seen my Dad," would I be saying I look like him? that's a rather strange interprtation,

of course you still didn't say anything about the first verse

Consider these two verses as well

* "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." (Isa. 45:5)

* There is no God but one. (1Cor. 8:4)

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Okay.... Jesus isn't "God" though.. the bible says he is the SON of God..

Desire,

How would you interpret this verse, who do you think is the Word?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

M.

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Thought I'd throw out some quotes from the Book of Mormon too....

"26 And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God?

27 And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God.

28 Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God?

29 And he answered, No." -- Alma 11:26-29

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So far all of you have ommitted a scripture that will explain this exactly and clearly.

D&C Section 130:22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

This clearly tells us the nature of the Godhead, that they are 3 different personages, but 1 in purpose. Each and every one of us are expressly created in His own image. Therefore, we not only have the Spirit of Christ within us, but we look as He does.

The Prophet Lorenzo Snow is quoted as saying, "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become. " Our purpose, to which many have a hard time believing, is that we can, through our worthiness and righteous living, become a God in our own right, along with our eternal companion regining as our Queen.

In 1820, a young 14 year old went into a grove to pray about what church to join. He received a visit from the Father and the Son, who spoke to him. In Joseph's own words, "I knew that I saw God, and God knew it, and I cannot deny it."

Finally, D&C Section 76:22-23 22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives! 23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

So The Father and The Son both possess glorifed, perfected, and ressurected bodies.

moptopfan50

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So far all of you have ommitted a scripture that will explain this exactly and clearly.

D&C Section 130:22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

[Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23)

Not to mention all the other verses I just quoted...

The Prophet Lorenzo Snow is quoted as saying, "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become. " Our purpose, to which many have a hard time believing, is that we can, through our worthiness and righteous living, become a God in our own right, along with our eternal companion regining as our Queen.

"I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." (Isa. 45:5) (not to mention, if gods come from gods...where did the "first" god come from?

Finally, D&C Section 76:22-23 22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives! 23 For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

The "only begotten" of the Father

What do you think that means?

Josh B)

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So far all of you have ommitted a scripture that will explain this exactly and clearly.

That's because the planets were aligned for you Keith to be the first LDS to share this answer. Desire, I would describe as a "baby LDS Christian", so she's still learning. Joshua and myself are not LDS, so we would not contribute that answer. It was meant for you! -_-

M.

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Baby LDS? That is cute!!!

What you all are forgetting, is one of the most important parts of the church... we have PROPHETS who give revelation and clarifuy things. I believe D&C 93 says more about it too, about them being one in purpose, but seperate... if I am not mistaken??

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Baby LDS? That is cute!!!

What you all are forgetting, is one of the most important parts of the church... we have PROPHETS who give revelation and clarifuy things. I believe D&C 93 says more about it too, about them being one in purpose, but seperate... if I am not mistaken??

Ah....but do to prophets, your old prophets, your scriptures, and the Bible, all contradict each other?

otherwise how do you explain the verses I listed?

Josh B)

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<div class='quotemain'>

Baby LDS? That is cute!!!

What you all are forgetting, is one of the most important parts of the church... we have PROPHETS who give revelation and clarifuy things. I believe D&C 93 says more about it too, about them being one in purpose, but seperate... if I am not mistaken??

Ah....but do to prophets, your old prophets, your scriptures, and the Bible, all contradict each other?

otherwise how do you explain the verses I listed?

Josh B)

Explain? Everything can be taken in more than one way, and it is basically continued in D&C 93.

I already explained it. One in purpose. They both want us home.

Also, how do you explain the baptism story, where John the baptist baptises Jesus? They were ALL THERE, and they are one? Like I said before... God does NOT want us confused.

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Explain? Everything can be taken in more than one way, and it is basically continued in D&C 93.

I already explained it. One in purpose. They both want us home.

Let me see If I understand you correctly...

Your prophets says there is not a contrdiction between your belief in "many gods", that Jesus, The Father, and Holy Spirit are different people,

So you say that

"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" (Deut. 6:4)

* "I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." (Isa. 45:5)

* There is no God but one. (1Cor. 8:4)

* Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

* "He who has seen Me has seen the Father." (John 14:9)

* "He who beholds Me beholds the One who sent Me." (John 12:45)

* "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for that which has been conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 1:20)

* And the angel answered and said to her [Mary], "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God." (Luke 1:35)

* [Jesus speaking to His disciples] "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you." ... "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him." (John 14:16-17, 23)

could be taken differently then what they clearly say?

Please be specific, how could these verses be taken otherwise?

Josh B)

How to I explain the baptism of Jesus...The only way it can be explained it light of the other scriptures:

"trinity" is a term that is not found in the Bible but a word used to describe what is apparent about God in the Scriptures. The Bible clearly speaks of God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit...and also clearly presents that there is only one God. Thus the term: "Tri" meaning three, and "Unity" meaning one, Tri+Unity = Trinity. It is a way of acknowledging what the Bible reveals to us about God, that God is yet three "Persons" who have the same essence of deity."

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I believe D&C 93 says more about it too, about them being one in purpose, but seperate... if I am not mistaken??

The Trinity also defines the persons of the Godhead as distinct and separate. The Father is always the Father, the Son is always the Son, the Holy Spirit is always the Holy Spirit - they are distinct persons of the Godhead but are one in divine essence. They are individually God and/or collectively God, because there is only one God.

M.

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<div class='quotemain'>

Heavenly Father is our God, and Jesus is the SON of God. We believe in ONE GOD!

Actually, you don't. You might not "worship" other gods...but you do believe they exist...

Eternal progression? sound familier?

Josh B)

*Makes funny face that isn't found on the list*

Like, we can become like God???

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And that is easier than the God Head?? :blink:

Only God is God...

But how do you define God?

From the BofM:

Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be arestored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the bFather, and the Holy Spirit, which is cone Eternal God, to be djudged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44)

From the D&C:

Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are aone God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen. (D&C 20:28)

Adding John 1:1 from the Bible:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

Desire, who do you think the Word is referring to?

M.

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*Makes funny face that isn't found on the list*

Like, we can become like God???

It is my understanding that Mormons believe God came from a god, who came from a god...and so on....

and one day...we will all become gods, and have other gods....

correct me If I'm wrong.....( I know you just love doing that ;) )

Josh B)

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I am not sure what you are getting at...

I'm getting the impression from your posts that you believe God the Father is only God, but the verses from the Alma, D&C 20 and John 1:1 shows that all 3 persons of the Godhead are one God. That's what I'm getting at.

M.

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