What Do You Think About My Beliefs About: Baptism In Holy Ghost

[prisonchaplain]

I'm preparing to teach a Sunday School class (adults) that will first focus on my own church's teachings about fundamental doctrines. After the two-week "Crash Course on the Fundamentals," we're going to explore how other churches view our doctrines. The first group we'll compare with is the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints. Fear not, as the main part of the curriculum, I'll use http://www.mormon.org, and perhaps secondarily, FAIR and FARMS. However, there may be some interesting thoughts and impressions you have as well.

While I doubt my class will be converting en masse to the COJCLDS, I've already stated that our goal is more to better understand what we believe in contrast to other groups, rather than to debunk or "bash" anyone else.

To me, it's like visiting another country for several months, and then returning home. You see yourself and your community in ways you never have! (Returning Missionaries should be able to shout up an AMEN! on that one. )

NOTE: THIS IS PROBABLY THE DOCTRINE THAT IS THE MOST ASSOCIATED WITH THE ASSEMBLIES OF GOD, IN PARTICULAR, AND PENTECOSTALS IN GENERAL.

Here's the official statement:

We believe . . . the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a special experience following salvation that empowers believers for witnessing and effective serice, just as it did in the New Testament times. We Believe . . . the initial phsyical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit is 'speaking in tongues,' as experienced on the Day of Pentecost and referenced throughout Acts and the Epistles.

[Princess3dward]

What do you mean by following salvation?

[prisonchaplain]

What do you mean by following salvation?

Good catch! Yes, we believe that baptism in the Holy Spirit is a "second act of grace," that is apart and subsequent (following) salvation. While it is available to all believers, we are taught to seek the gift, much as you might seek direction or wisdom from God. Many Christians are content with salvation, and simply living a 'normal' life for Christ. For those who want more...more power, more effectiveness, the Spirit of God beckons.

[Princess3dward]

eeeeeeee... I don't really agree, but that might just be me...

I think we need it to make ritious(sp?) choices..

[prisonchaplain]

eeeeeeee... I don't really agree, but that might just be me...

I think we need it to make ritious(sp?) choices..

If I read Ben correctly, your church teaches that the baptism in the Holy Ghost is imparted with the laying on of hands, and takes place in conjunction with water baptism. Somebody correct me, if I'm wrong.

[Guest MrsS]

In the way that you are referring to it, yes it is much the same.

We are baptized first by the full immersion in water. This is in similitude of the death and resurrection of Christ. It is also in similitude of rebirth.

Then we are baptized by fire - this is when we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is what Bruce R. McConkie says of the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

"There is a difference between the Holy Ghost and the gift of the Holy Ghost," the prophet taught. (Teachings, p.199) As the third member of the Godhead, the Holy Ghost is a Personage of Spirit; the gift of the Holy Ghost, however, is the right, based on faithfulness, to the constant companionship of that member of the Godhead. It is the right to receive revelation, guidance, light, and truth from the Spirit. "The presentation or "gift" of the Holy Ghost, " President Joseph F. Smith said, "simply confers upon a man the right to receive at any time, when he is worthy of it and desires it, the power and light of truth of the Holy Ghost, although he may often be left to his own spirit and judgement." (Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed., pp. 60-61)

<snip> Further, the fact that a person has had hands laid on his head and a legal administrator has declared, "Receive the Holy Ghost," does not guarantee that the gift itself has actually been enjoyed. The gift of the Holy Ghost is the rightto have the constant companionship of the Spirit; the actual enjoyment of the gift, the actual receipt of the companionship of the Spirit, is based on personal righteousness; it does not come unless and until the person is worthy to receive it. The Spirit will not dwell in an unclean tabernacle. (1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:19) Those who actually enjoy the gift or presentment of the Holy Ghost are the ones who are born again, who have become new creatures of the Holy Ghost. (Mosiah 27:24-25)"

We must remain worthy to keep the Holy Ghost within us. This was our lesson is Relief Society today. Taken from a talk by Dieter F. Uchtdorf, “On the Wings of Eagles,” Ensign, July 2006, p. 10

The Latin source of the word comforter—com fortis—means “together strong.” As the Holy Ghost visits your own spirit, you become stronger than you are by yourself. When you receive the Holy Ghost, you receive strength, power, peace, and comfort.

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “There is a difference between the Holy Ghost and the gift of the Holy Ghost. Cornelius received the Holy Ghost before he was baptized, which was the convincing power of God unto him of the truth of the Gospel, but he could not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized. Had he not taken this sign or ordinance upon him, the Holy Ghost which convinced him of the truth of God, would have left him. Until he obeyed these ordinances and received the gift of the Holy Ghost, by the laying on of hands, according to the order of God, he could not have healed the sick or commanded an evil spirit to come out of a man.” 6

Elder Parley P. Pratt (1807–57) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles stated that the Holy Ghost “inspires virtue, kindness, goodness, tenderness, gentleness and charity. It develops beauty of person, form and features. It tends to health, vigor, animation and social feeling. It develops and invigorates all the faculties of the physical and intellectual man. It strengthens, invigorates and gives tone to the nerves. In short, it is … marrow to the bone, joy to the heart, light to the eyes, music to the ears, and life to the whole being.” 7

President Marion G. Romney (1897–1988), First Counselor in the First Presidency, gave us encouragement: “You can make every decision in your life correctly if you can learn to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This you can do if you will discipline yourself to yield your own feelings to the promptings of the Spirit. Study your problems and prayerfully make a decision. Then take that decision and say to him, in a simple, honest supplication, ‘Father, I want to make the right decision. I want to do the right thing. This is what I think I should do; let me know if it is the right course.’ Doing this, you can get the burning in your bosom, if your decision is right. … When you learn to walk by the Spirit, you never need to make a mistake.” 8

The Prophet Joseph Smith talked about the promptings of the Spirit as “sudden strokes of ideas.” 9

The Holy Ghost will make you independent. If you will learn how to have the Holy Ghost as a constant companion, all other needful things will fall in place. Through your personal righteousness the Spirit of God will guide you to learn to control yourself, to enhance your attitude, to increase your spiritual altitude, and to find and trust the true source of divine power.

We must not only learn to recognize when the Holy Ghost is guiding us, we must also recognize when the Holy Ghost departs from us. By recognizing when that happens, we can cease doing that which chases the Holy Ghost away. Such as listening to bad and unwholesome music, watching unwholesome movies, talking in an unrighteous and unwholesome way, etc.

Does this help any Prison Chaplain?

[JoshuaFKon]

could you define "'speaking in tongues,'"

thanks B)

Josh B)

[boyando]

could you define "'speaking in tongues,'"

thanks B)

Josh B)

In the LDS faith, speaking in tongues, breaks down into two categories.

1-Speaking in the origanal langauge. The langauge that Adam spoke.

2-Speaking in a langauge other than your own with the help of the Holy Ghost.

I believe that both were pressent at the day of penticost and at the dedication of the Temple in Kirkland, Ohio. We as LDS do use catagory #2 a lot more than #1 because it is so easy to be fooled by an evil spirit while speaking the origanal langauge.

[prisonchaplain]

Does this help any Prison Chaplain?

Yes--in an ironic way. The gift of the Holy Spirit sounds very much like an experience the Nazarenes call sanctification. It is an empowerment from the Holy Spirit to live holy or righteous. As you said, no guarantees--the believer still has to access that power on an on-going basis.

<div class='quotemain'>

could you define "'speaking in tongues,'"

thanks B)

Josh B)

In the LDS faith, speaking in tongues, breaks down into two categories.

1-Speaking in the origanal langauge. The langauge that Adam spoke.

2-Speaking in a langauge other than your own with the help of the Holy Ghost.

I believe that both were pressent at the day of penticost and at the dedication of the Temple in Kirkland, Ohio. We as LDS do use catagory #2 a lot more than #1 because it is so easy to be fooled by an evil spirit while speaking the origanal langauge.

Interesting! I'm aware that many, when seeking the baptism in the Holy Spirit, fear being deceived. However, encourage them with the parable from Luke 11, that when we seek a good gift from our Father, He'll not give us an evil one.

For classic Pentecostals, 'speaking in tongues' is primarily speaking in an unknown tongue. It need not be a human foreign language, though such incidences have and are recorded.

BTW, kudos to all posters--this thread has been particular informative and 'kinder and gentler' than some others. :-)

[JoshuaFKon]

What do you consider the purpose of speaking in tounges?

Josh B)

[Princess3dward]

What do you consider the purpose of speaking in tounges?

Josh B)

To spread the gosple to people we can't reach by ourselves...

To speak to angels if we ever were to see them...

[prisonchaplain]

<div class='quotemain'>

What do you consider the purpose of speaking in tounges?

Josh B)

To spread the gosple to people we can't reach by ourselves...

To speak to angels if we ever were to see them...

Also, the Bible speaks of 'praying in the Spirit and with understanding.' Prayer in tongues allows my spirit to commune directly with God. I can pray when I don't know what to pray. Finally, tongues is a marker, a confirmation to us, that we do indeed walk with the full presence and indwelling of the Holy Spirit. BTW, the 'fruit of the Spirit' are long-term markers--the type that most others are interested in seeing.