The Atonement

[moptopfan50]

I have pondered for awhile on posting my thoughts on the Atonement.

One day last month I was having a very hard day, and as I was driving to my various destinations, this subject came to my mind. Then on the next Sunday, the talks were on...you guessed it, the Atonement.

Webster's dictionary defines atonement as: the reconciliation of God and humankind through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. We as Latter Day-Saints know the Atonement took place in the Garden. How many of you have given thought to the prayer He offered to His Father.... "Father, if thou wilt, remove this cup...nevertheless, if thou wilt, I shall drink it up, for not MY will but THINE be done." Let us remember that Christ, as the Only Begotten of the Father, had command of the angels and, at any time, could have commanded them to come save Him, and they would have. But then all the creations would have been for naught. Our pre-mortal council to which we "shouted with joy" when the Lord's plan was adopted would have been null and void. This could not be, for God's word is the same yesterday, today, and forever. "For this purpose came I into the world" Christ said when referencing his crucifixion.

1 Corinthians 15:21-22 tells us: 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Man was dead in his sins because of the fall of Adam. We needed a way to have those sins removed so we could return to our Father in Haeaven. This is where the Atonement comes into play. He died for us and his blood removes our sins from us -- provided we repent, not just "repent", but truly and sincerely repent. The kind of repentance that brings about a change of heart, where one no longer desires to do evil, but do good (Mosiah 5:2). And we renew our covenants each Sunday when we take the Sacrament.

I would sugguest 2 things for us to do: 1) Listen carefully and learn the words of the Sacrament prayers. Moroni Chapter 4 is the bread, and Moroni Chapter 5 is the water. 2) All of us every day should include in our prayers our sincere thankfulness for the sacrifice Christ made for us, and make the Atonement part of our daily lives. If you have not done lately, read this and then go on your knees and ask for forgiveness and get your lives in order. Otherwise, for you, the Atonement means nothing and you are lost forever.

The time is short brothers and sisters. These are the last days. Alma 34:33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed. This is truly our day and time and learn about and receive our God. May all of us do this and walk forward with that change of heart.

moptopfan50

[Princess3dward]

I was reised in another christian, and it was never explained to me why Jesus had to die... but then I got it a little after conversion when I was told a story about a starving kid stealing lunch.

My dad and I also noticed that prayer, and it shows how scared Jesus was... and it would be scary... I also can never watch the crusifiction in a movie.. I always cover my eyes or leave..

[Maureen]

Isn't this kinda heavy stuff for Primary? :)

M.

[Princess3dward]

Isn't this kinda heavy stuff for Primary? :)

M.

Not if you tell my story!!!

I am way too lazy to type it all though...

[Princess3dward]

There was this class, and the teacher decided that they would work together to make the rules and punishments.

One rule, and the only one relevent to the story was you can't steal someone elses lunch. Back then they used those scary sticks, and whoever stole someone elses lunch had to get hit 10 times in the back with the scary stick.

One day, a really thin kid who came to school every day without a lunch, stole lunch from a bigger kid. Once the teacher saw what had happened, he said basically rules are rules.

This kid was soo weak that it looked like something like 10 in the back might be a little much for the kid, so the bigger kid stood up and said he was going to take the beatings for the little one.

[babygirl]

i love that storie its so cute...its called He Took My... Beatting, i think is the last word case anyone was wondering, lol

[Dr T]

Hi Moptopfan,

the Atonement took place in the Garden.

will you please explain your position on how the atonement took place in the garden?

Thank you,

DR. T

[Guest MrsS]

This is the story - from a talk given by James E. Faust, “The Atonement: Our Greatest Hope,” Ensign, Nov. 2001, 18

Some years ago, President Gordon B. Hinckley told “something of a parable” about “a one-room schoolhouse in the mountains of Virginia where the boys were so rough no teacher had been able to handle them.

“Then one day an inexperienced young teacher applied. He was told that every teacher had received an awful beating, but the teacher accepted the risk. The first day of school, the teacher asked the boys to establish their own rules and the penalty for breaking the rules. The class came up with ten rules, which were written on the blackboard. Then the teacher asked, ‘What shall we do with one who breaks the rules?’

“ ‘Beat him across the back ten times without his coat on,’ came the response.

“A day or so later, the lunch of a big student, named Tom, was stolen. The thief was located—a little hungry fellow, about ten years old.

“As little Jim came up to take his licking, he pleaded to keep his coat on. ‘Take your coat off,’ the teacher said. ‘You helped make the rules!’

“The boy took off the coat. He had no shirt and revealed a bony little crippled body. As the teacher hesitated with the rod, big Tom jumped to his feet and volunteered to take the boy’s licking.

“ ‘Very well, there is a certain law that one can become a substitute for another. Are you all agreed?’ the teacher asked.

“After five strokes across Tom’s back, the rod broke. The class was sobbing. Little Jim had reached up and caught Tom with both arms around his neck. ‘Tom, I’m sorry that I stole your lunch, but I was awful hungry. Tom, I will love you till I die for taking my licking for me! Yes, I will love you forever!’ ”

President Hinckley then quoted Isaiah:

“ ‘Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows. …

“ ‘He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our [sins].’ ” (Isa. 53:4–5.)

No man knows the full weight of what our Savior bore. His [deep] suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane, where He took upon Himself all the sins of all other mortals, caused Him “to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit” (D&C 19:18).

The Atonement and the Resurrection accomplish many things. The Atonement cleanses us of sin on condition of our repentance. Christ’s resurrection gave us the assurance of life after death.

Our Redeemer took upon Himself all the sins, pains, and sicknesses of all who have ever lived and will ever live (see Alma 7:11–12). He knows our trials by firsthand experience.

Because the Savior has suffered anything and everything that we could ever feel or experience, He can help the weak to become stronger. He understands our pain and will walk with us even in our darkest hours.

We long for the ultimate blessing of the Atonement—to become one with Him, to be in His divine presence, to be called individually by name as He warmly welcomes us home with a radiant smile, beckoning us with open arms to be enfolded in His boundless love (see Alma 26:15; Morm. 5:11; Morm. 6:17; Moses 7:63).

(See Ensign, November 2001, pages 18–20.)

Dr. T as to your question about the Atonement taking place in the Garden of Gethsemane - this is from our Bible Dictionary

BIBLE DICTIONARY

Atonement

The word describes the setting “at one” of those who have been estranged, and denotes the reconciliation of man to God. Sin is the cause of the estrangement, and therefore the purpose of atonement is to correct or overcome the consequences of sin. From the time of Adam to the death of Jesus Christ, true believers were instructed to offer animal sacrifices to the Lord. These sacrifices were symbolic of the forthcoming death of Jesus Christ, and were done by faith in him (Moses 5: 5-8).

Jesus Christ, as the Only Begotten Son of God and the only sinless person to live on this earth, was the only one capable of making an atonement for mankind. By his selection and foreordination in the Grand Council before the world was formed, his divine Sonship, his sinless life, the shedding of his blood in the garden of Gethsemane, his death on the cross and subsequent bodily resurrection from the grave, he made a perfect atonement for all mankind. All are covered unconditionally as pertaining to the fall of Adam. Hence, all shall rise from the dead with immortal bodies, because of Jesus’ atonement. “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Cor. 15: 22), and all little children are innocent at birth. The atonement is conditional, however, so far as each person’s individual sins are concerned, and touches every one to the degree that he has faith in Jesus Christ, repents of his sins, and obeys the gospel. The services of the Day of Atonement foreshadowed the atoning work of Christ (Lev. 4; Lev. 23: 26-32; Heb. 9). The scriptures point out that no law, ordinance, or sacrifice would be satisfactory if it were not for the atonement of Jesus Christ (Heb. 10: 1-9; 2 Ne. 9: 5-24; Mosiah 13: 27-32).

Sin is lawlessness (1 Jn. 3: 4); it is a refusal on men’s part to submit to the law of God (Rom. 8: 7). By transgression man loses control over his own will and becomes the slave of sin (Rom. 7: 14), and so incurs the penalty of spiritual death, which is alienation from God (Rom. 6: 23). The atonement of Jesus Christ redeems all mankind from the fall of Adam and causes all to be answerable for their own manner of life. This means of atonement is provided by the Father (John 3: 16-17), and is offered in the life and person of his Son, Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 5: 19).

The LDS are rather unique in that we stress what Christ went through in the Garden more than we do of his dying on the cross. There in the Garden He took upon Himself ALL of our sorrows, hurts, illness's, and sins so that we could bear them as they happened to us. By all I mean ALL of mankind, all that have been born to this earth and all that shall be born on this earth.

Think of a sorrow that brought you to your lowest - one that you felt was going to kill you with heartbreak. Because of Jesus Christ's suffering in the Garden, you were able to endure that sorrow. If you look back, you will see that you have grown, learned from that sorrow.

When I was 14 my Dad fell and hurt his back, for about a year the Dr's had him on pain meds. Cocaine actually. He underwent surgery to fuse two discs. It didn't work- and his pain was nearly unbearable. About a year later Dad went in and they severed some of the nerves leading to his right leg. This eased most of the pain and he was at least able to sleep for more than 1 hour at a stretch.

Then Dad's Dr passed away and his new young Dr informed Dad that he had been on Cocaine and he feared Dad might be addicted to it. Dad was, and he By Gosh was going to get off of it. He did it cold turkey. I will never forget that week. Dad went through withdrawl. I never really saw him, Mom wouldn't allow any of us kids upstairs - which meant we all had to sleep on the floor downstairs. The wailing and moaning that went on.

Mom and Grandma were worn thin, I had never seen Mom look so ghastly! She was exhausted and more than just a little bit worried about Dad making it and remaining alive.

He did - I really believe that all of our prayers got him through. I would go outside at night, and hug the trunk of the apple tree and sob and plead with God to get my Dad through this.

What my Dad went through isn't even one tot or tittle of the pain and suffering that Christ endured. Had Christ not suffered for my Dad - Daddy would have never been able to endure - he would have died! He would have died from the fall that hurt him.

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

[Dr T]

Thank you for that MrsS. I promise to read it tomorrow. I'll respond when I have time. :)

[Lindy]

Thanks Mrs S for sharing that.... it brings tears to my eyes... knowing that the pain and the sorrows we go thru in life are not nearly the pain and suffering that Christ went thru for US. Kind of humbles you a little when you (meaning I) whine about feeing badly about something.... and didn't have to go thru the extemee agony that Christ went thru.

I'm sorry that your dad had to go thru that.... it would be hard on all involved... just the worry alone.

[moptopfan50]

Thanks Mrs S for sharing that.... it brings tears to my eyes... knowing that the pain and the sorrows we go thru in life are not nearly the pain and suffering that Christ went thru for US. Kind of humbles you a little when you (meaning I) whine about feeing badly about something.... and didn't have to go thru the extemee agony that Christ went thru.

I'm sorry that your dad had to go thru that.... it would be hard on all involved... just the worry alone.

Now that we have cleared up the Atonement taking place in the Garden, and the accomanying sins and troubles of the world He took upon Himself there, I think it is time to add a solemn yet true precept, found in the D&C Section 19:15-18:

15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

So here we are told that if we don't repent, then we will suffer even as He did. To me, that is enough to make sure I do not need to face that. How about all of you?

moptopfan50

[Brother Dorsey]

So here we are told that if we don't repent, then we will suffer even as He did. To me, that is enough to make sure I do not need to face that. How about all of you?

Absolutely, he suffered all things for us...the least we can do is the simple things he asks. I just think of it like this....everytime I commit a sin I am hurting Christ...causing him to suffer just that much more...the thought pains me.

[Dr T]

Thanks for your thoughts on this. MrsS, thank you for posting the story from Gordon Hinkley. I understand what atonement is-taking of the sins as a substitute and reconciling humanity to God. My understanding though was not that "the atonement" took place in the garden but on the cross through sacrifice of Jesus. His torment in the garden should not be overlooked of course but to speculate that it was there that all "he became sin for us (humans) is not clear from the Bible. There are many verses that show that Jesus "took our place" became sin for us, etc. but in the garden I see no conclusive evidence/support for that. Jesus, being who He was and knowing that he would have to chose to go to His death was in agony and humanly did not want to do it. He showed submission to the Father's plan for salvation of His creatures and therefore Jesus rightly chose to yield his human will to that of the Father. His sacrifice seems to be where the atonement, the covering of all sins took place, not in the garden.

Just my thoughts,

Dr. T

[Guest MrsS]

Now that we have cleared up the Atonement taking place in the Garden, and the accomanying sins and troubles of the world He took upon Himself there, I think it is time to add a solemn yet true precept, found in the D&C Section 19:15-18:

15 Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I smite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your sufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.

16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

So here we are told that if we don't repent, then we will suffer even as He did. To me, that is enough to make sure I do not need to face that. How about all of you? moptopfan50

Thanks moptopfan50 - I was searching all over for that scripture! When I saw the movie The Passion of Christ - I kept thinking of that scripture - 17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

I totally agree

[Guest MrsS]

Dr. T

I believe that Christ's torment was more so in the Garden, not on the cross. Emotional, mental and Spiritual torment/agony is infinitely more painful than physical. The physical you can block- the others you can not.

I know, I blocked the pain of physical abuse but I could not block the emotional, mental, verbal abuse that was heaped on me by my ex-husband.

Christ went back into the Garden three times too that night. Willingly went back the second and third times knowing full well the torment and agony He was going to suffer, knowing that each time it was going to get worse. He tells us this in this verse: 18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit

By the time He was taken from the Garden, flailed, beaten, i.e. the physical torture, He had the Holy Ghost there to comfort Him as well as other Angels. The same Angels that comforted Him in the Garden. He also had the Holy Ghost to comfort Him as He bore the cross through the streets.

This is where we are taught the true love of Christ. All throughout this, Christ did not condemn His abusers. He did not curse them, He did not whine and complain about them, He did not plead with His Father to bring them to their knees. He pleaded with Father and said: Forgive them for they know not what they do.

This is MY belief - MY thoughts - I say this in the name of Jesus Christ - Amen

[Ray]

This is a great thread that I somehow missed before. Thank you for the good thoughts, everyone.

I've been thinking more about this to know more than I know now, and in summary, this is what I've come up with:

The "atonement" was accomplished in the garden of Gethsemane because that's where our Lord gave up His will. At that point what was His will "swallowed up" by our Father's will. At that point He was "one" with our Father.

But the fact that the atonement was accomplished in the garden doesn't mean it wasn't accomplished before.

At any time when His will was "swallowed up" by our Father's will, the "atonement" was in full active force.

And at any time when we have the will of our Father... instead of our own will in mind... the atonement is accomplished... we are "one" with our Father... it's not something that happens once and then it's over.

The "atonement" is something that can go on forever... as the will of our Father lives on.

Our Savior still had to die... to actually offer His life for us... because that was the will of our Father.

Someone had to come here and do the will of our Father... both to live... and to die... for our Father.

His life was the perfect example for all of us... and by following His example, we become "one".

The act of "repentance" only gets us back on track when we stray from the will of our Father.

[MaidservantX]

Also, Peter was crucified upside down. That was a sacrifice for his beliefs. But that does not, and cannot, make him the savior. Jesus Christ did give his physical life freely, as he was already immortal, and certainly the physical abuse that he went through at that time not everyone has experienced nor would have survived. But the sins actually had to come upon him, and yes, in the Garden of Gethsemane, and I think I've heard it said, returned while he was on the cross.

[Rosewood]

The "atonement" was accomplished in the garden of Gethsemane because that's where our Lord gave up His will. At that point what was His will "swallowed up" by our Father's will. At that point He was "one" with our Father.

But the fact that the atonement was accomplished in the garden doesn't mean it wasn't accomplished before.

At any time when His will was "swallowed up" by our Father's will, the "atonement" was in full active force.

And at any time when we have the will of our Father... instead of our own will in mind... the atonement is accomplished... we are "one" with our Father... it's not something that happens once and then it's over.

The "atonement" is something that can go on forever... as the will of our Father lives on.

Our Savior still had to die... to actually offer His life for us... because that was the will of our Father.

Someone had to come here and do the will of our Father... both to live... and to die... for our Father.

His life was the perfect example for all of us... and by following His example, we become "one".

The act of "repentance" only gets us back on track when we stray from the will of our Father.

Beautiful thoughts, beautifly put. I agree.