Did Jesus really use Wine at the last supper?

[Suzie]

To whom? Since there is no other source specifying that "pure wine" = "non-alcoholic" besides yourself, I'm inclined to disagree. Where did you even come up with the idea? Did you read it and come to the conclusion or is there some other source?

The “pure wine” in Doctrine and Covenants 89:6 “is understood to mean new or unfermented grape juice, since the Word of Wisdom declares unequivocally against the internal use of alcohol in any form.

“This interpretation is reinforced by the fact that . . . water was early in the history of the Church substituted for wine, for sacramental purposes. The revelation reads:

“‘For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.’ [ D&C 27:2 ].” (Widtsoe, Word of Wisdom, pp. 60–61.)

Doctrine and Covenants Institute Student Manual - Section 89 - The Word of Wisdom

[Vort]

The “pure wine” in Doctrine and Covenants 89:6 “is understood to mean new or unfermented grape juice, since the Word of Wisdom declares unequivocally against the internal use of alcohol in any form.

“This interpretation is reinforced by the fact that . . . water was early in the history of the Church substituted for wine, for sacramental purposes. The revelation reads:

“‘For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.’ [ D&C 27:2 ].” (Widtsoe, Word of Wisdom, pp. 60–61.)

Doctrine and Covenants Institute Student Manual - Section 89 - The Word of Wisdom

Since Section 89 (Feb 1833) was received two and a half years after Section 27 (Aug 1830), it is reasonable to suppose that the absolute prohibition against alcoholic beverages was not anticipated or referred to in the earlier section. It is also not obvious, at least to me, that a general prohibition against consuming alcohol would necessarily apply to sacramental wine.

[Suzie]

Since Section 89 (Feb 1833) was received two and a half years after Section 27 (Aug 1830), it is reasonable to suppose that the absolute prohibition against alcoholic beverages was not anticipated or referred to in the earlier section. It is also not obvious, at least to me, that a general prohibition against consuming alcohol would necessarily apply to sacramental wine.

I agree. As a matter of fact, I think they indeed drank wine in sacrament meeting in the early days (and not grape juice). I was merely trying to help JuanP with a quote since he was asked by Obolus for one but didn't seem to recall where the whole idea of "pure wine" = non-alcoholic drink came from.

[Blackmarch]

Since mormons don´t drink alcohol, and use water instead of wine at the sacrament - i find it interesting that nowhere in any of the gospels does it explicitly say that jesus and the discipes drank wine at the last supper! I know this is not why mormons dont use wine, but still a strange coincidence that kinda supports the LDS tradition/interpretation of sacrament.

Quite likely there was wine there, doubt it would compare to the stuff in use today tho. Early on we used wine however, we don't use Wine because we were commanded to switch to water for various reasons.

[Dravin]

Quite likely there was wine there, doubt it would compare to the stuff in use today tho. Early on we used wine however, we don't use Wine because we were commanded to switch to water for various reasons.

As far as I know we were not commanded to switch to water, it's more a case of it was revealed that water was perfectly acceptable. Even if one takes the scriptural references to pure or new wine as references to using fresh nonalcoholic wine that's a commandment not to use alcoholic wine not a commandment to use water. As far as I know our use of water is best put as a policy decision that's acceptability is founded in revelation and wisdom but we could change to using apple juice next week and it'd not matter one whit doctrine wise (obviously it matters cost wise and for diabetics).

Edited November 29, 2011 by Dravin

[Blackmarch]

As far as I know we were not commanded to switch to water, it's more a case of it was revealed that water was perfectly acceptable. Even if one takes the scriptural references to pure or new wine as references to using fresh nonalcoholic wine that's a commandment not to use alcoholic wine not a commandment to use water. As far as I know our use of water is best put as a policy decision that's acceptability is founded in revelation and wisdom but we could change to using apple juice next week and it'd not matter one whit doctrine wise (obviously it matters cost wise and for diabetics).

well commanded not to use wine, at first of that which wasn't made by us, and then later all wine altogether. Edited November 29, 2011 by Blackmarch

[anim82r]

I have no doubt Jesus drank wine - the water was not really that safe to drink in his day.

:lol:

[dahlia]

Aren't there Protestant churches that use grape juice instead of wine for their sacrament? I wonder why the LDS don't do that?

Also, why would one wash one's body with "strong drink"? A vodka bath? : )

[volgadon]

Also, why would one wash one's body with "strong drink"? A vodka bath? : )

Several reasons, it is an astringent and it also helps warm the body.

[Maureen]

Aren't there Protestant churches that use grape juice instead of wine for their sacrament?

Pentecostal churches use grape juice.

I wonder why the LDS don't do that?

Water is easily available and is inexpensive (in North America).

M.