Blackmarch Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I was wondering, do you think you can lose your temple recommend if you do not support prop 8 or anything like it? I believe that missionary work is the only right course of action not forcing people to adhere to our belief system. However, the question on whether or not you are sympathetic to groups that are contrary to the gospel leaves me wondering that if I were too open about this opinion I may run the risk of losing my recommend. I have noticed that other liberal Mormons also tend to use a pseudonym as well which makes me wonder if this is something I need to be concerned with. I can't ask my Bishop either because the last thing I want to hear is, Sister please return your recommend.You shouldnt as prop 8 is political. Not supporting prop 8 does not mean you support any group that votes against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinarihoudai Posted November 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 You shouldnt as prop 8 is political. Not supporting prop 8 does not mean you support any group that votes against it.After listening to what people had to say on the original topic I've decided to bring it up during my next Temple recommend interview. I should be fine since I don't go to activist meetings or give support monetarily or anything like that. When this comes up in conversation I make it very clear that I agree with the church's stance on homosexuality. It's the method, not the message, that I disagree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafrenieredianne1 Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 I could not agree more! In fact, I think we should do away with laws against rape, embezzlement, and speeding, for that very reason. We should not be trampling on people's sacred Free Agency by methods so crude and Satanic as making and enforcing a social contract.Anarchists, unite and organize!Oh, wait...Oh , wait.....and we must all become politically correct as we certainly would not want to offend anyone. Holiday tree, Happy Holidays.....I think not......my Christmas tree is up and merry Christmas to one and all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backroads Posted December 1, 2011 Report Share Posted December 1, 2011 After listening to what people had to say on the original topic I've decided to bring it up during my next Temple recommend interview. I should be fine since I don't go to activist meetings or give support monetarily or anything like that. When this comes up in conversation I make it very clear that I agree with the church's stance on homosexuality. It's the method, not the message, that I disagree with.As of last Sunday I officially now work with four bishops. Would you like me to perhaps test the question on one of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinarihoudai Posted June 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2012 As of last Sunday I officially now work with four bishops. Would you like me to perhaps test the question on one of them?I just now saw this Backroads. Sorry about that, didn't mean to diss your offer.I've got my recommend renewed without a hitch after talking to the Bishop about this issue. I'm a-ok. :)(Think a mod could put UPDATE at the beginning of the thread title?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthiechan Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yay! I'm a-ok too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Reid has a touchy enough set of issues of his own in Nevada. Brothels and gambling. I doubt he wants to get embroiled in more issues. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 Anarchists rise up and unite!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 I was wondering, do you think you can lose your temple recommend if you do not support prop 8 or anything like it? I believe that missionary work is the only right course of action not forcing people to adhere to our belief system. However, the question on whether or not you are sympathetic to groups that are contrary to the gospel leaves me wondering that if I were too open about this opinion I may run the risk of losing my recommend. I have noticed that other liberal Mormons also tend to use a pseudonym as well which makes me wonder if this is something I need to be concerned with. I can't ask my Bishop either because the last thing I want to hear is, Sister please return your recommend.I'm really on the fence about Prop 8 stuff because I think it is Constitutionally prohibited for churches to be involved in politics. I know one church that had a political meeting and they lost their 501c3 status, and I agree they should have.Just read the first Amendment to the Constitution and see what you think.I know I am going to get challenged on this, but I have seen an article that said the LDS church lost close to 50% of their membership in California over the issue, or maybe that is nation wide.Personally I am all about Jesus Christ, and doing what he told me to do. Plus my genetics do not include the political gene, so I am really dumb about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 10, 2012 Report Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) No. Not at all. If I denounced the church I wouldn't care about my recommend. . . I question the method employed by the church regarding gay marriage. I believe that making it a law that homosexuals can not marry is forcing them to follow our belief system which is not conducive to missionary work. I do NOT question that marriage is ordained of God.Actually, within the church, homosexuals can marry members of the opposite sex and have to abstain from involvement with the same sex. They can do it all including being a Bishop and having a Temple recommend. That's a tough road for gays, but those are the rules.I'm not as emotionally invoved in the issue because I do not have a recommend.Besides how are they gonna know how you vote? Keep your mouth shut and follow your conscience. It is unlawful to coerce a voter. Edited June 10, 2012 by Hala401 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I was wondering, do you think you can lose your temple recommend if you do not support prop 8 or anything like it?No, however should a member come out in open rebellion and try to force the hand of the Prophets, as some have, then yes, the member is subject to their covenant. If they have broken their covenant, then they are subject to the consequences of their decisions. I am not sure why people complain about being subject to their covenant, both the blessings and the consequences when disobeyed. I believe that missionary work is the only right course of action not forcing people to adhere to our belief system.People even now believe missionary work is forcing people to believe your belief system. Some people suggest, that if you even try to talk to someone about your belief, that wasn't elicited, then you are forcing them to believe your way. However, the question on whether or not you are sympathetic to groups that are contrary to the gospel leaves me wondering that if I were too open about this opinion I may run the risk of losing my recommend. I have noticed that other liberal Mormons also tend to use a pseudonym as well which makes me wonder if this is something I need to be concerned with. I can't ask my Bishop either because the last thing I want to hear is, Sister please return your recommend.The right course is to stand our ground in truth, not a societal plea, that has and will continue to have the Lord's disapproval on our nation. You need not fear loosing your recommend if you are grounded in truth, and if you are keeping your temple covenants. If you are not grounded in truth, and you are not keeping your temple covenants, it shouldn't surprise anyone if a temple recommended is returned, however with technology today, they don't need to take your recommend away, they only need to send an alert on your record attached to the bar-code on your recommend, and it is flagged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I'm really on the fence about Prop 8 stuff because I think it is Constitutionally prohibited for churches to be involved in politics. I know one church that had a political meeting and they lost their 501c3 status, and I agree they should have.Really? Maybe you haven't heard of politicians campaigning in and/or being endorsed by churches either. Because it happens all the time, especially with Democrats and predominantly black Churches. While the LDS Church maintains neutrality as far as particular candidates goes, they wholeheartedly maintain their right to fight against political actions which they consider immoral. Gay marriage and lotteries are two issues that come quickly to mind that they have publicly stated to be against in the recent past.Just read the first Amendment to the Constitution and see what you think.This would be the first amendment:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievancesNow, my reading comprehension may not be as good as yours, so maybe you could point out the part that prohibits religions from becoming involved in politics.I know I am going to get challenged on this, but I have seen an article that said the LDS church lost close to 50% of their membership in California over the issue, or maybe that is nation wide.50%? That's an amazing number. Do you have a link to that article? Because I would be very interested in reading it. The Church claims that there were 768,000 members in California at the end of 2011. That's after the Prop 8 thing. But even if it were before, that would mean that 384,000 people had either left the church or lost their membership over gay marriage. I would think that such a large number would be huge national news, let alone in Utah, and I have never heard that claim before. Just for fun, I looked up US membership, it was reported to be almost 6,25 million. Either, a mass exodus would have been a big deal. Sorry, I just don't believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 . I know one church that had a political meeting and they lost their 501c3 status, and I agree they should have My understanding is that a church losing their 501c3 status would be if they advocated a certain candidate. If they promoted a certain candidate they could lose their status. That's why here at lds.net we have the rule that we can't discuss current political candidates whether it be in favor of or against. Not that we can't talk about issues that might be up for vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 When I was first talking to the Sisters in Kirtland, we talked about the Prop 8 issue and I said that I supported the church on it. I will not break my word. Still, it is heart breaking to me. I firmly believe that one day we will find that the causation of the problem and it will no longer be considered a moral issue. It is disturbing to me that those who I believe love Jesus Christ can so blithely talk about condemning those whose malady we do not fully understand. Are you not mindful of the astonishing number of suicides that have happened over this issue? I know that there are medical programs and places of research both in Provo and in SLC and I most certainly hope that the researchers are not biased in their work. There is a difference between searching for a reason to condemn and searching for the causation. I worked in statistical research in a manufacturing plant and can tell you all about biased researchers, and Engineers who distort the facts to show themselves to be competent. I will support the Prophet in this not because I know that he knows the answers but because I know that he answers to Heavenly Father. I worry at times because I want those who I must obey to be competent and well educated along with following the direction of the Holy Spirit. Last night I served at a wedding reception and a Bishop became fascinated with me when he found out that I was a new convert and had been a Muslim. Suddenly he was chatting me up and telling me all about what Muslims believe and I just wanted to scream because he was so far off that it was unimaginable. I kept my peace because I was serving at a young couples reception and I did not want to spoil it. But I know that if I ever see him again, he will lose his chest hair. So, you leaders in the LDS church I will follow, but please man up and do your homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthiechan Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Wow, that's crazy. I remember someone asking me what Mormons believe. I started to tell her and she promptly said, no you don't you believe. . . and listed a whole bunch of things that she thought I believed. Yeah, I wanted to scream too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Really? Maybe you haven't heard of politicians campaigning in and/or being endorsed by churches either. Because it happens all the time, especially with Democrats and predominantly black Churches. While the LDS Church maintains neutrality as far as particular candidates goes, they wholeheartedly maintain their right to fight against political actions which they consider immoral. Gay marriage and lotteries are two issues that come quickly to mind that they have publicly stated to be against in the recent past.This would be the first amendment:Now, my reading comprehension may not be as good as yours, so maybe you could point out the part that prohibits religions from becoming involved in politics.50%? That's an amazing number. Do you have a link to that article? Because I would be very interested in reading it. The Church claims that there were 768,000 members in California at the end of 2011. That's after the Prop 8 thing. But even if it were before, that would mean that 384,000 people had either left the church or lost their membership over gay marriage. I would think that such a large number would be huge national news, let alone in Utah, and I have never heard that claim before. Just for fun, I looked up US membership, it was reported to be almost 6,25 million. Either, a mass exodus would have been a big deal. Sorry, I just don't believe it.John: I have not found the original article, but if you need it I will find it. Here is one from a SLC TV station. Do not get me wrong, I love the church, and they absolutely rescued me, showing me love and tenderness that I have never experienced in my life. I want my leaders to be right. I also want them to be merciful.Number of faithful Mormons rapidly declining - ABC4.com - Salt Lake City, Utah News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) It is disturbing to me that those who I believe love Jesus Christ can so blithely talk about condemning those whose malady we do not fully understand.Are you not mindful of the astonishing number of suicides that have happened over this issue? I know that there are medical programs and places of research both in Provo and in SLC and I most certainly hope that the researchers are not biased in their work. There is a difference between searching for a reason to condemn and searching for the causation.I worked in statistical research in a manufacturing plant and can tell you all about biased researchers, and Engineers who distort the facts to show themselves to be competent.I will support the Prophet in this not because I know that he knows the answers but because I know that he answers to Heavenly Father.I worry at times because I want those who I must obey to be competent and well educated along with following the direction of the Holy Spirit.The Church does not actually condemn individuals who have homosexual feelings. It is against sexual relations outside of marriage, and against same-sex marriage, and therefore against any homosexual relations at all. So basically, the Church would have homosexuals either remain celibate, or go against their instincts and get married to someone of the opposite sex. Though I've heard they are pushing the latter option less these days, because it leads to too many divorces.I frankly disagree with the Church pushing Prop. 8 and similar laws. Though I believe the Church leaders are inspired about many things, I do not believe they are infallible, and reserve the right to disagree with them. There is no obligation in the Gospel to follow leaders if they're wrong.If the Church wants to get involved with moral issues in the public sphere, IMO there are more important issues they could/should be tackling, as opposed to SSM.To the Church's credit, they do not seem to be using the temple recommend to pressure Church members to support anti-SSM laws. I know a number of Mormons who disagree with the Church's stance on SSM, but who retain temple recommends. One of them is currently serving as a bishop in my town! Edited June 11, 2012 by HEthePrimate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I frankly disagree with the Church pushing Prop. 8 and similar laws. Though I believe the Church leaders are inspired about many things, I do not believe they are infallible, and reserve the right to disagree with them. There is no obligation in the Gospel to follow leaders if they're wrong.If the Church wants to get involved with moral issues in the public sphere, IMO there are more important issues they could/should be tackling, as opposed to SSM. I just want to make it understood that this is entirely YOUR opinion. I don't want anyone who might happen upon this that this is the opinion of the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEthePrimate Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I just want to make it understood that this is entirely YOUR opinion. I don't want anyone who might happen upon this that this is the opinion of the majority.I would have thought it obvious that it's my opinion.And so what if it's not the opinion of the majority of people here? That in itself doesn't mean it's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 John: I have not found the original article, but if you need it I will find it. Here is one from a SLC TV station. Do not get me wrong, I love the church, and they absolutely rescued me, showing me love and tenderness that I have never experienced in my life. I want my leaders to be right. I also want them to be merciful.Number of faithful Mormons rapidly declining - ABC4.com - Salt Lake City, Utah NewsWell, it's an article, but it doesn't say what you asserted. Your claim was that 50% of either California or US members have either left or lost their membership over the gay issue, and it doesn't say that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hala401 Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 It makes me feel crazy, so conflicting are my feelings over this. When one group rejects another over something that none of us can really explain ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_ Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I believe that missionary work is the only right course of action not forcing people to adhere to our belief system.Can you explain how supporting Prop 8 is forcing people to adhere to our belief system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Can you explain how supporting Prop 8 is forcing people to adhere to our belief system?The same way laws against rape force people to abide by our archaic sexual mores.Anarchists, unite!Oh. Wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_ Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 iinarihoudai, please don't go around accusing people of "forcing" others. Others can fornicate all they want - I simply don't support sanctioning such behavior by giving it legal status. I am not forcing anyone to live the law chastity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn_ Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 It makes me feel crazy, so conflicting are my feelings over this. When one group rejects another over something that none of us can really explain ...The Church is not rejecting anyone over this. The rule is the same for everyone. Live the law of chastity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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