Mormon 9/11 Truthers?


ThatLDSKiD
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I'm deeply confused and even saddened, after reading a thread from a different LDS forum website. Obviously the website has no official affiliation with the Church, yet it is still operated by LDS members. I saw and read this thread of about how 9/11 is just a conspiracy and all of this nonsense. The Mormon Truthers were all insinuating that Bush and elements of the US government actually intended to create mass death, terror, and sorrow and they were all suggesting this under the "Secret Combinations" banner.

How can Mormons truly believe such propaganda? It is a little disconcerting to me. I don't doubt that there are secret combinations in the US, in our government, and abroad internationally; however, I am quite saddened that fellow members would insinuate that the official 9/11 story is a fraud.

I also found threads insinuating that Reagan belonged to a secret combination conspiracy group, that the CIA tortured children under Reagan's consent, that the CIA conducts human trafficking and Satanic rituals, that Obama is a CIA plant, that Bush is a member of Reagan's secret combination and assassinated him for more power, and that groups such as the freemasons (who supposedly had a large influence on the Founding Fathers) are secret combinations that pledge to destroy the world.

I'm torn because I KNOW certain facts that are occurring in this world and in the United States that many would consider conspiratorial rhetoric. I'm worried that maybe I'm wrongfully judging these fellow Church members as conspiracy nutcases, when there actually is truth the their accusations. The problem is that they sound so crazy to me that I highly doubt they are true. They can't be, which also troubles me greatly. Until recently I never realized how many "fringe" Mormons there actually are. And what's worse...I actually AGREE with them on SOME political topics, just not any of this. How could members of the LDS Church be led so much astray, yet remain active in the Church? Or am I the naive one?

What are your thoughts on these troubling matters?

Edited by ThatLDSKiD
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There are conspiracy theory nuts in every walk of life, including Mormonism. I am sure several will pop up here and defend the position and a long, drawn out conversation will ensue resulting with frustration. No matter what the issue is, some people see it there way no matter what kind of evidence is brought to the table.

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There are conspiracy theory nuts in every walk of life, including Mormonism. I am sure several will pop up here and defend the position and a long, drawn out conversation will ensue resulting with frustration. No matter what the issue is, some people see it there way no matter what kind of evidence is brought to the table.

I can't really improve on what livy111us said. Rest assured that the Church does not teach that or even think it.

Is this what started the whole thing? This is from the Deseret News about a BYU professor placed on paid leave while the university investigates his actions. BYU places '9/11 truth' professor on paid leave | Deseret News

Edited by Mamas_Girl
Found the article
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Why would a LDS be any less prone to accepting conspiracy theories than someone of another faith?

I think Christians in particular are MORE prone to this due to the end days prophecies found in the book of Revelation and the pervasive Christian belief that 'the Earth is lying in the power of the wicked one (Satan)'. Remember that Christianity began as an anti-authoritarian movement. Most early Christians were oppressed Jews living under Roman imperialism and plebian gentiles so it's no wonder that the religion has retained a suspicion towards government.

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Is this what started the whole thing? This is from the Deseret News about a BYU professor placed on paid leave while the university investigates his actions. BYU places '9/11 truth' professor on paid leave | Deseret News

No I vistied LDSFreedomForums.com and noticed a category of theads about "secret combinations." Almost all of them were about 9/11 conspiracies, Reagan conspiracies, Bush conspiracies, CIA conspiracies, etc...basically none of them seemed credible and I wondered how LDS member could be led so easily astray in such a...weird... way

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Any one, member or not, who is so afraid, does not truly understand the Atonement. Even if there are secret combinations....and evil everywhere....how does that change a person who is truly converted to Christ? It doesn't affect my convictions one bit, I know Christ is the Savior and only through him can I reach my full potential. Secret combinations or believing in them by others only shows me that those who believe in them don't fully understand the power of Christ, and I am sad for them.

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I have to chime in here. I have been hit on both sides of those accusations. I try very hard not to accuse anyone of being a nutcase or a cultist, etc. In reality conspiracies do exists. That is why their are laws against them. Lucifer conspired against God, Judas conspired against Jesus, the founding fathers conspired against King George, and the Book of Mormon is full of conspiracies. We all know that bad events have happened and are going to happen again but when I talk about it with members they say I am too extreme. I don't even leave the realm of church doctrine. When I talk to non-members about the church they say I am in a cult. I know what I believe is true and that is all that matters to me. I am glad you believe some of it and not all of it. Some of it is true and some is not. If you said it was all a bunch of hooey or it is all true then I would think you are an extremist.

The truth of it is all you can do it read, ponder, and pray. Since you are not directly involved there is know way for you to know the complete truth. And even if you knew the truth what can you do about it? What if all they say is true, how would that affect you? And it seem that in that article that was posted about the BYU professor that he got in trouble not because of his views but because of how he was presenting it. He wasn't following BYU procedure on publishing his papers. Or that is how it seems according to that article. Again, we are not involved so we don't know the truth of it.

And you are the naive one.:D

There are many members that will fall away when put to the test. We just haven't really had any hard test lately. But how many active members fell away when Joseph Smith died, or how many fell way when when they had to trek west.

Activity in the church is not a good guide on how strong a persons faith is. We had 3 families leave the church this past year because they read some bad material. They were very active and many people were shocked. I have read and know of others who have read bad material but haven't left. When the time comes I bet you will be really surprised on how many people really leave when put to the test. Just stay in the middle of the church and stay with the temple members. They are the strongest, in my opinion.

Edited by I_Can_See
Had to fix my misspellings.
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The official 9/11 story is a fraud! If you actually researched it you would know why. We are warned in Ether that we must be above the secret combinations.

Let me give you a glimpse. Most people recognize that towers 1 and 2 fell because of the planes. What most people don't know is that tower 7 also free fell, meaning there was no resistance when it fell, hours after 1 and 2 fell. Tower 7 was NEVER hit by a plane and chemically office fires CANNOT melt steel and cause the tower to collapse but most people don't even know about tower 7! The official story, and I mean official, is that it is the first time EVER that fire has brought down a steel building!? This is nonsense and a lie! Now, "truthers" don't claim that Bush did it yet recognize that we aren't being told the whole story. I am a "truther" and will remain one because I recognize facts and universal laws such as physics.

You can say I am a nut all you want but you cannot argue with facts, reason and the promptings of the Holy Ghost. Most people who criticize "truthers" never have thoroughly researched, pondered and prayed over 9/11 and just simply believe everything they are told by their government.

20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people, and they are had among the Lamanites.

21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.

22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who bbeguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

Mormons need to recognize that it isn't only the scriptures and conference talks that we must pray about to find the truth. We need to be praying about everything that is going on especially government because governments have created bondage for people since the beginning of time. The United States is not vulnerable to this in fact America will be cleansed in preparation of building Zion.

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Is this what started the whole thing? This is from the Deseret News about a BYU professor placed on paid leave while the university investigates his actions. BYU places '9/11 truth' professor on paid leave | Deseret News

No I vistied LDSFreedomForums.com and noticed a category of theads about "secret combinations." Almost all of them were about 9/11 conspiracies, Reagan conspiracies, Bush conspiracies, CIA conspiracies, etc...basically none of them seemed credible and I wondered how LDS member could be led so easily astray in such a...weird... way

Steven Jones is a regular on LDSFreedomForum and would gladly answer any questions you have. He is simply a physics professor who says tower 7 could not have fallen without some type of explosive and he is 100% right. He even found thermite in the WTC debris samples that could easily be used to take down steel beams.

Edited by AGStacker
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President Ezra Taft Benson: "I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world."

President Benson in general conference recommended that all members read "None Dare Call it Conspiracy". Satan is highly more organized than you think. He officiates and has minions on Earth just like the Lord does. He visits his minions and gives them his plan. They have oaths and rituals. They are lovers of evil and hate freedom and Christians. They exist within all governments. It doesn't matter if a man speaks Christian like and professes to know the Savior. It is his works that count. It doesn't matter if this man wears a suit and tie, smile and is clean shaven. They can still be evil! Americans along with the many of the LDS people are highly deceived.

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And here I was hoping you'd have something more than a website. Most people haven't done any genuine research (that includes those who aren't 'truthers') and it generally devolves into "this website agrees with me and therefore it's correct." If you consider your website research than equally so is the one I provided.

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And here I was hoping you'd have something more than a website. Most people haven't done any genuine research (that includes those who aren't 'truthers') and it generally devolves into "this website agrees with me and therefore it's correct." If you consider your website research than equally so is the one I provided.

Wait, did you link something more than a website? Listen, Dravin, Youtube WTC 7 collapse. Now listen, this building was NEVER hit by a plane. I am not making this up! It WAS NOT HIT! It had MINIMAL fires and yet it comes down in free fall speeds.

Free fall speeds? This means that their was no resistance which means that when the top floor was falling onto the second highest floor it wasn't their and no contact was made. Which means what? Which means that the second highest floor was falling before the top floor ever hit it. This means the pancake theory is not correct but that a device was used to destroy each level at the same time. The pancake theory actually identifies that it would take much longer than 7-8 seconds for the towers to fall. Which means the towers were brought down with explosive like a controlled demolition.

Now, I never said GW had anything to do with it but it is apparent that the 9/11 commission is not being honest with us. Why wouldn't patriotic Americans question this?

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I have been reading a lot lately that is really concerning me. As far as 9/11 goes, it seems that there was at least one group waiting for something to happen that they could use to implement some plans they had ready.

Satan is one sneaky spirit and nothing useful to him escapes his notice. There may not have been a conspiracy here to take down the towers but satan did plan it out to do the most damage as possible, both then and later. One group may not know what another group is doing but satan does and he is working the loom to weave it all together.

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I have been reading a lot lately that is really concerning me. As far as 9/11 goes, it seems that there was at least one group waiting for something to happen that they could use to implement some plans they had ready.

Satan is one sneaky spirit and nothing useful to him escapes his notice. There may not have been a conspiracy here to take down the towers but satan did plan it out to do the most damage as possible, both then and later. One group may not know what another group is doing but satan does and he is working the loom to weave it all together.

Well, we know that the "Patriot" Act was written before 9/11 actually occurred and if anyone analyses and studies the "Patriot" Act they will find that Constitutional liberties are lost not gained from the act.

I don't understand why Mormons and Americans don't realize that anytime a law is passed that takes away peoples' Constitutional rights that it is a bad law. People do not realize what America was supposed to be but they will awaken to the pain that is coming. These wars and our debt is unsustainable mathematically and will lead to the United States default. No doubt about it. The United States is going to default in the near future.

I don't care what people label me as. Everything I know and claim can be backed up by facts. I am sorry if the truth offends people but America isn't perfect by any means and we cause pain and misery across the globe through our wars.

As recorded by A. Milton Musser:

"...Prophet Joseph said that the next great (U.S. civil) war after the war of the rebellion (the Civil War of the 1860's between the North and the South) would commence in a little town now called Chicago but at that time it would have grown to be a very large city. And another brother told me that the Prophet said that the cause of the next great trouble of the United States would be the depreciation of the currency of the United States. I believe I have given you all the facts in as short and concise manner as possible."

"There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party. The United States will spend her strength and means warring in foreign lands until other nations will say, “Let’s divide up the lands of the United States,” then the people of the U.S. will unite and swear by the blood of their fore-fathers, that the land shall not be divided. Then the country will go to war, and they will fight until one half of the U.S. army will give up, and the rest will continue to struggle. They will keep on until they are very ragged and discouraged, and almost ready to give up—when the boys from the mountains will rush forth in time to save the American Army from defeat and ruin. And they will say, “Brethren, we are glad you have come; give us men, henceforth, who can talk with God.” Then you will have friends, but you will save the country when its liberty hangs by a hair, as it were." - Joseph Smith, Autobiography of Mosiah Hancock

Edited by AGStacker
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Wait, did you link something more than a website?

Nope, my point was not that my 'research' was more credible, but that it was equally credible. Which is to say it isn't particularly.

Listen, Dravin, Youtube WTC 7 collapse.

Youtube = credible as any random website.

To return in kind: http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf

You do realize this can go on indefinitely right? Vomiting forth youtube videos and conspiracy/debunking sites doesn't particularly 'prove' either side's point, but if you get to claim you've done research because you've pulled up some conspiracy sites and some youtube videos you can't really deny the other side has done research when they've done the same (debunking sites and youtube videos).

Edited by Dravin
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Dang, I wish you hadnt brought up the white horse prophesy. That has such questionable province it is hard to put any value to it at all.

Well, any quote that isn't included in the cannon could be questionable but do not we have the Spirit of prophecy?! I don't say these things just because I think I am right but because the Spirit tells me the truth concerning them.

It is a fact that the US is at war with many nations. These wars are unconstitutional because Congress has to declare war which we haven't since WWII. This is a fact. Also, the United States has serious debt problems like Europe and simply printing more money doesn't help. There are many Apostles and Prophets who recognize that war and bloodshed will fill the Earth, including America, in the last days. The destruction of a country's currency always creates internal conflicts. America is filled with people who believe that they are entitled to things. We are arrogant and conceded and think that America is the best and will never fail. This is so wrong. While we will always maintain the Constitution that doesn't guarantee wealth. So imagine what people would do when the US dollar is destroyed.

If you don't believe me, how many people were killed, maced, injured or left for dead on black Friday? These people aren't even fighting over necessities but stupid TVs and video games! America's conscious was lost a long time ago and it makes me very sad. :(

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Nope, my point was not that my 'research' was more credible, but that it was equally credible. Which is to say it isn't particularly.

Youtube = credible as any random website.

To return in kind: http://www.structuremag.org/Archives/2007-11/SF-WTC7-Gilsanz-Nov07.pdf

You do realize this can go on indefinitely right? Which is pretty much my point. Both sides tend to fall into the "It's not research if it doesn't agree with me!" trap.

Eye witness reports and live footage is credible. Did you not see the tower free fall?

What you don't realize is that I am stating facts.

Facts:

1) WTC 7 was never hit by a plane

2) Office fires chemically cannot melt steel beams

3) WTC 7 had only small visible fires

4) WTC 7 collapsed under 8 seconds

5) WTC 7 mimicked a controlled demolition perfectly

6) Thermite was found in the debris

7) Thermite can cut steel beams (I have a video if you want to see it)

8) Many people by the towers heard what they called explosives

9) The official NIST report said that fires brought the WTC 7 down

I could go on.

This is my point Dravin. There are actual facts that exist around 9/11. These facts don't need a special 9/11 truth website or video to be verified. They are facts either proven by footage from 9/11 or the scientific law.

Good luck to you and your research.

Edited by AGStacker
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