American Civil War D&C 87

[Mamas_Girl]

So my husband (non-member) and I were discussing D&C 87, and he said he would have been really impressed had he lived in the 1860s to see what was happening. But, he asked, what's up with the rest of the prophecy? Sure the South called on Great Britian, and other countries, but they didn't join in. Where do we go from say the middle of verse 3 to the end?

Thanks!

[rameumptom]

The prophecy is being misread/misconstrued. It states that the South would call upon Great Britain and other nations to help, which did happen. Then it says the time would come when Great Britain would call for help from the rest of the world. At that time, war would fall upon all nations (WWI/WWII).

Then after many days, slaves would rise up against their masters disciplined and marshalled for war: the collapse of the Soviet Union and Apartheid.

Then the remnant of slaves would become angry and "vex the Gentile nations" references the Arab/Islamic actions against the West.

I discuss it more in depth at my website: DC87 - Life, the Universe, and Etcetera

[Just_A_Guy]

Incidentally, I would be careful about using D&C 87 as "proof" of Joseph Smith's prophetic calling. At the time, the nullification crisis and secession threats involving Andrew Jackson and John C. Calhoun would have been fresh in everyone's mind.

What is remarkable about D&C 87 isn't that it predicted the rebellion of the South; but that it strongly hints the issue would be slavery (as it was) rather than tariff policy (as most 1830s-observers would have predicted).

[bytor2112]

Not inviting a historical debate Jag, but if you are suggesting that Lincoln sent an army into Virginia in 1861 in order to free the slaves, you would be mistaken. Slavery was certainly a contentious issue, but not the reason for armed conflict.

[Just_A_Guy]

Sure; Lincoln sent troops in to preserve the union. But the root cause of secession itself was Lincoln's election, and South's disdain for Lincoln arose primarily because he was seen as being anti-slavery (even though his platform actually consisted only of barring slavery expansion into the western territories).

[Vort]

Not inviting a historical debate Jag, but if you are suggesting that Lincoln sent an army into Virginia in 1861 in order to free the slaves, you would be mistaken. Slavery was certainly a contentious issue, but not the reason for armed conflict.

Note that the Prophet did not say that the war would be fought to free the slaves, only that slavery would most likely be the issue that sparked the war.

[Obolus]

Slavery has been the issue at hand since before the world was. All wars should be understood in context of the war in Heaven.

[Mamas_Girl]

Not inviting a historical debate Jag, but if you are suggesting that Lincoln sent an army into Virginia in 1861 in order to free the slaves, you would be mistaken. Slavery was certainly a contentious issue, but not the reason for armed conflict.

If you read the secession clauses you will see that the South was the one who started the war over slavery, not the North which is a common misconception. South Carolina actually makes that point quite clear in her own Declaration of Causes of Seceding States. Declaration of Causes of Secession South Carolina. Note that South Carolina cites the usual "frequent violations of the Constitution by the US, and the central governments encroachments upon states rights. But then she goes on to describe what lead to this conclusion. And the reasons are basically (numbers and paragraphs are my own, but the words are original, some text has been left out between them, but the whole text can be found at the link given above):

1.) The 4th Article of the Constitution: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due." For many years these laws were executed... But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations... have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them.

2.) Those [northern] States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

3.) For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the *forms* [emphasis in the original] of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

4.) On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.

Initially it appears as though the prophecy only stated that South Carolina would secede, it does not give a reason. It wasn't until Section 130 that the Prophet Joseph Smith revealed that it "may probably arise through the slave question." One thing that is interesting is just about the time that Joseph Smith reaffirmed his prophecy was the time that the southern portions of the Methodist (1844) and Baptist (1845) churches broke off over the issue of slavery. So the slavery issue was heating up, not dying down.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Mamas_Girl

[spamlds]

D&C 87 isn't just about the Civil War. It informs us that, beginning with the rebellion in South Carolina, war would spread to all nations, eventually making an end of all of them. The prophecy is still ongoing and will one day be fulfilled when the Lord makes a "full end of all nations," leaving his kingdom as the only legitimate, standing authority on Earth. We have a ways to go yet before that one is fulfilled.

[Martain]

You'll find some useful information under section 87 in the D&C Institute Manual