Learning about the Past


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Hey web-goers, thanks for taking the time out of your busy web-slinging to read my post.

I'm engaged to quite seriously the love my life and anticipate our temple marriage soon. I trust her, love her, respect her, confine in her, and know her to be an amazing, beautiful, and sweet spirit and child of God. However, we have had some disagreements about feelings in one particular subject:

She feels saddened, even frustrated that I desire to know nothing of her past relationships or transgressions. Her past is very important to her and believes she has been made by her decisions and the events that have occurred throughout her life (good or bad) and that they have all lead to meeting and falling for me. She feels like I should be interested, and feels that she has to guard herself from talking about certain things because she doesn't know how I'll feel about the story. She feels like I am not accepting all of her because I don't want to hear the stories of her past relationships, intimacies, and dating history.

I feel like her past is in her past. I respect it, I respect she's moved on and is a bigger and better person because of it, and I am thankful it somehow led her to me. However, talking about past (this is intimate past and "partying days" in her youth we are talking about, with other people) makes me exceedingly uncomfortable. Who she is now, and who we are becoming together is what is most important about me. I know she is deeply passionate about her past being who she is and has become, and wants me to accept all of it in detail, but I don't require that much to accept someone's past. It is what it is, details or not. But talking about past transgressions or intimacy with another man bothers me tremendously and we haven't found common ground. She says she will continue to guard herself on what she says and feels that she will always have to hide from me - but she said, at first, she felt like she can talk to me about anything.

How do we find common ground about this issue? I respect her feelings, I accept her past and all that she is that brought her to me, but I don't want to know the details of her past intimacies. She isn't happy having to "guard" herself with what she says, she is saddened that she feels she can't come to me for everything, and I'm feeling more and more guilt whenever we bring up the subject. Thoughts? Advice?

Thank you again.

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Hey web-goers, thanks for taking the time out of your busy web-slinging to read my post.

I'm engaged to quite seriously the love my life and anticipate our temple marriage soon. I trust her, love her, respect her, confine in her, and know her to be an amazing, beautiful, and sweet spirit and child of God. However, we have had some disagreements about feelings in one particular subject:

She feels saddened, even frustrated that I desire to know nothing of her past relationships or transgressions. Her past is very important to her and believes she has been made by her decisions and the events that have occurred throughout her life (good or bad) and that they have all lead to meeting and falling for me. She feels like I should be interested, and feels that she has to guard herself from talking about certain things because she doesn't know how I'll feel about the story. She feels like I am not accepting all of her because I don't want to hear the stories of her past relationships, intimacies, and dating history.

I feel like her past is in her past. I respect it, I respect she's moved on and is a bigger and better person because of it, and I am thankful it somehow led her to me. However, talking about past (this is intimate past and "partying days" in her youth we are talking about, with other people) makes me exceedingly uncomfortable. Who she is now, and who we are becoming together is what is most important about me. I know she is deeply passionate about her past being who she is and has become, and wants me to accept all of it in detail, but I don't require that much to accept someone's past. It is what it is, details or not. But talking about past transgressions or intimacy with another man bothers me tremendously and we haven't found common ground. She says she will continue to guard herself on what she says and feels that she will always have to hide from me - but she said, at first, she felt like she can talk to me about anything.

How do we find common ground about this issue? I respect her feelings, I accept her past and all that she is that brought her to me, but I don't want to know the details of her past intimacies. She isn't happy having to "guard" herself with what she says, she is saddened that she feels she can't come to me for everything, and I'm feeling more and more guilt whenever we bring up the subject. Thoughts? Advice?

Thank you again.

Your love sounds lovely. I don't know if her particular reasons for feeling this need to tell you of her past might be as mine in my life, but let me tell you a little about my experience with the man I love regarding this subject.

I had a past of a troubled youth, as well as having been married. While the man I love had known me for most of his life, he was unaware of the negative aspects from my youth and marriage.

My past, too, the good and bad, helped to teach me and mold me as the person I am and that I continue to become (thankfully the Lord can make weak things become strong unto us) and the bad is as intimately a part of me as the good.

But the thing was, the man I love had me on such a pedestal that I was nearly perfect in his eyes, and, as a result, I was, on the one hand, rather guarded because, as close as we were and as well as he knew me and knew my heart, there was much about me he didn't know, and that concerned me.

On the other hand, even though I was afraid to divulge details, I wanted him to know me fully, to better understand me, and to also know and understand that I would have the ability to be understanding and accepting of things in his past.

So, I actually wrote my story for him. I should hasten to add, though, that my story did not include graphic details of those events, those were certainly not necessary or appropriate. But I felt it important and needful emotionally, as per my relationship with him, and his trust in me, and my trust in him, to paint the picture of my life for him.

Thankfully, too, I'm still on the pedestal. :)

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Guest mormonmusic

I would get all this out in the open and hear what she did. So you are going into the marriage eyes wide open.

Here is my reasoning -- even though everything is wonderful right now, you may find there are things you learn about her after marriage that surprise you as you live together. You may well turn to her past for understanding....and to frame it all. I know I have had to do that to understand my wife's attitudes and behaviors.

If you don't let her share all these things, she can say "I wanted to tell you about my past and how I got here, but you wouldn't listen".

Honestly, with the many surprises marriage can present to even the most conscientious of suitors, I would be gobbling up everything she said -- even if it upsets me to hear it so I can judge the impact on my own feelings - -however, powerful and unconditional they feel now. You need to take in every bit of information offered and available to you before you make this risky and high-commitment, one-time commitment. The stakes too high to ignore it all.

Ultimately, you will live with this person for decades -- do you really want to keep this as a secret or "closed box" for the coming millenia?

Everything needs to be open -- and if you can't do this for yourself, do it for her as this is a need she has, and meeting your spouse's reasonable needs is a characteristic of a good husband. And I see her desire to share and hopefully, receive assurance you still love her as an extremely reasonable and valid need.

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I agree with mormonmusic. It may be painful for you to hear things, but she has a need to tell you. I can understand how she feels--she's holding back a part of herself from you and she doesn't like that.

You need to hear everything (not so much details of the intimacy, but of the events she feels are important to share). Marriage is about becoming one with your spouse and there are things to drive you two apart once you are married. Don't let this be one of them.

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Guest mirancs8

Consider yourself fortunate that she actually wants to share her past with you. There are people who go to great lengths to cover and hide things about their past.

You said: "I respect her feelings, I accept her past and all that she is that brought her to me, but I don't want to know the details of her past intimacies."

My question to you is how is it that you are accepting her past when you refuse to hear about it? Furthermore I think you can listen to her past without hearing the horrid details of her actual intimacies. I'm sure she want to share with you her experiences good and bad so that you can see where she came from and how she got to where she is.

I would like to echo what the others have said here and that is to open yourself to hear everything. That means the good with the bad. Eventually everyones past catches up with them at some point in the marriage, and it's better that you already know about it then to be taken by surprise. Keep in mind that if you choose not to hear her out that a day will come when you are tossed off your feet from shock. This will ultimately cause much friction that could have been prevented. You will only have yourself to blame for continuing to turn her down when she so many times tried to share it with you before you got married.

Marriage is a huge committment and though you seem to be very much in love we all have our pasts. This phase of giddy love shall fade and reality will set in with each year of marriage. You can't go through your life pretending her past is not there, because not only are you setting yourself up for hurt you are also causing your future wife a great amount of pain. It's not fun especially for women to have things bottled up things that you so badly want and need to share with someone you love.

It's obvious that she wants nothing more then to be completely transparent with you, and I think that is an admireable trait in her. It's the least you can do to listen to what she has to say.

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You’ve received some great advice so far. I can relate with how you feel and I think it's admirable that feel you can unconditionally forgive any mistakes she made in the past.

Don't make the mistake of enthusiastically demonstrating your unconditional love and acceptance by ignoring her need to connect with you and to share her life (including her past) and concerns with you.

Marriage is a big step for her and if sharing this with you is important to her, it should be important to you. You in turn should open up and share your past with her. Start your marriage with open honest communication and learn to really listen.

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Turn to prayer and seek guidance on this issue is what I would recommend for does this not have bearing on you getting married? Haven't the Prophets told us that who we marry, where we marry and when we marry is one of the most important decisions we'll make in this life?

Aside from receiving revelation from the Lord that it would be in your best interest NOT to hear her, then I say you should allow her to explain.

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I think mormonmusic nailed the right attitude in this case. You should listen to anything she feels the need to tell you and use that information to deepen your understanding of the woman and of her viewpoint. However uncomfortable it might make you, now is the time for you to be the adult, listen patiently, and understand deeply. Honestly, if you can't do that much, you may wish to reconsider marrying her. I guarantee that, as her husband, you will be hearing a whole lot more (about a bunch of other topics, if not about her partying days).

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I would like to defend the OP on this.

Sometimes, ignorance is bliss. She has offered to tell her past, he has said "Thank you, but no thank you."

This is not wrong. He is willing to let her past stay there. If he was interested, then it would be one thing, but he's not.

Everyone on here expects she'll say something like, 'I had a boyfriend. We fooled around.' or 'I had a child who was put up for adoption.' - What if the past was something like, "I was a porn star and had sex with one hundred and seventy-three men. Twenty-three of them at the same time, once. I was kind of a legend."

Would you, as a guy, honestly want to hear that? I wouldn't. I would want to be a bigger man, but I'm not sure I could if I heard something like that. I would be simultaneously repulsed and horrified. I wouldn't want to be, but there it is. And that would happen no matter how much I loved the woman.

What's happening here is that she's looking for absolution from someone who can't grant it and ignoring his feelings, and he is looking to maintain blissful ignorance and ignoring her feelings. One of them won't get what they want - Who is willing to sacrifice their wants for the other?

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Funky, I disagree with you on this. Simply based on what the OP wrote, I can understand where this girl is coming from.

I have had other relationships with men besides my husband. In fact, while dating my husband, I was dating other men. I learned alot from those men and those relationships. I sometimes feel a need to share my experiences with my husband. Not the details, he has no need to hear that, but more of the events and lessons learned. I can imagine this woman is in the same place. Perhaps she does want to share details, but from the OP, I'm not getting that.

I think sharing those events, at appropriate times, can bring my husband and me closer together. He can understand some of my fears, my hesitations, my strengths better after knowing some of my past. Again, bringing them up at an appropriate time and not sharing too great of details are important, IMO.

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I would like to defend the OP on this.

Sometimes, ignorance is bliss. She has offered to tell her past, he has said "Thank you, but no thank you."

This is not wrong. He is willing to let her past stay there. If he was interested, then it would be one thing, but he's not.

Everyone on here expects she'll say something like, 'I had a boyfriend. We fooled around.' or 'I had a child who was put up for adoption.' - What if the past was something like, "I was a porn star and had sex with one hundred and seventy-three men. Twenty-three of them at the same time, once. I was kind of a legend."

Would you, as a guy, honestly want to hear that? I wouldn't. I would want to be a bigger man, but I'm not sure I could if I heard something like that. I would be simultaneously repulsed and horrified. I wouldn't want to be, but there it is. And that would happen no matter how much I loved the woman.

What's happening here is that she's looking for absolution from someone who can't grant it and ignoring his feelings, and he is looking to maintain blissful ignorance and ignoring her feelings. One of them won't get what they want - Who is willing to sacrifice their wants for the other?

I usually side with you Funky, but this time, I have to disagree.

Ignorance is bliss, sure. But that equates to - I love her, but only if.... If you don't want to hear it, then you probably should stay away from the gal. Because, the legend is a part of her that you can't accept... which means, at the get-go, you already have one strike (or 173) against you.

And then there's... 173 men... you better tell your spouse... you could be putting his life at risk with sexually transmitted cooties.

And if you can't get absolution from your spouse, then something is definitely wrong with that relationship.

You can put your head in the sand as much as you like. But, one of these days, you're going to have to face reality and make a choice. It's better to do it now before you get married than later when it's the point-of-no-return.

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You indicate that you know she is not who she used to be. I expect that she indicates this as well.

Should you listen and hear something you do not want to hear, your next question would be, did they really repent of what they did. Have they really changed. This is something that you would then struggle with the Lord in confirming whether or not they've really repented and changed.

Why not seek out such a confirmation first?

Heavenly Father? She wants to share her past with me and I don't really want to hear it. She says she's repented and changed and I believe her. She's telling me the truth right?

Armed with a confirmation that she has indeed repented and is clean before the Lord, then although it might not be enjoyable hearing the past, it won't hurt you or damage your trust as it otherwise could.

Just a thought.

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She feels saddened, even frustrated that I desire to know nothing of her past relationships or transgressions.

...

I feel like her past is in her past.

...

talking about past (this is intimate past and "partying days" in her youth we are talking about, with other people) makes me exceedingly uncomfortable.

...

How do we find common ground about this issue?

You keep saying like her past is in her past, as if you can make it true by saying it enough. Her past is part of who she is - and you are setting your marriage up for a lifetime of grief if you can't get past this. Either she'll grow bitter and dissolusioned with your unwillingness to deal with reality, or you'll hear things you didn't want to hear and figure out the 'real her' is a different person than you thought you had. It is possible her past will show up in various ways and demand attention after you are married.

You need to hear what she has to say.

Here's a suggestion - give her an long evening or two to get all of her past out into the open and off her back. You sit there and just put up with your discomfort, and hear everything she has to say.

Did she have a child or an abortion? Does she have an STD? Is there abuse in her past? Is she a recovering alcoholic? Did she do something illegal that could come back to bite you both? Does she have a jealous ex who gets out of prison in 5 years and will want revenge? Did she rack up unpaid debts? Did she declare bankrupcy? Is there a price on her head in Kentucky? No really - hear what she has to say. If you can't deal with uncomfortable truths about her past, you shouldn't be marrying her.

It's one thing to be engaged to someone who says "I did some dumb stuff in the past, but I'm over it." It's something else to be engaged to someone who says "I did some dumb stuff, and I think you need to hear about it before you marry me." If you don't trust her opinion about this, maybe she's not mature enough to get married.

Edited by Loudmouth_Mormon
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Everyone on here expects she'll say something like, 'I had a boyfriend. We fooled around.' or 'I had a child who was put up for adoption.' - What if the past was something like, "I was a porn star and had sex with one hundred and seventy-three men. Twenty-three of them at the same time, once. I was kind of a legend."

Would you, as a guy, honestly want to hear that?

Perhaps not. But what if his response is, "I don't want to marry a woman who has done such things"? Doesn't he have the right to make that decision based on the way things actually are? Should he instead go into a marriage blind to the realities preceding it?

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I think whether or not this desire not to hear the past is reasonable depends on just how much detail she is wanting to share and her reasons for wanting to share. If she is looking to get a sense of forgiveness from her future spouse, well yes he should be able to forgive her past but I agree with Funky- she is looking in the wrong place. The Savior is the one she needs to be looking to for forgiveness, and if she still feels she hasn't been forgiven by him, maybe she still has more work to do... And if she is looking to give him a play-by-play of every guy she's dated, every wrong thing she's done, everybody she's had sex with... I don't really see how that's going to be helpful to the relationship if he doesn't care to hear it. Better to keep it vague and simple- "I've done things I'm not proud of, these are the kind of issues that may crop up because of it, but I've moved on, have learned and grown from the experience, and hope I'm now a better person"... might be more like it.

However, trying to avoid all the details about her past or saying something like "I don't want to hear it" should she come to you with a concern and/or story about her past, is going to prove problematic. She needs to be able to talk to you, and you need to be able to listen. She needs to know that you will still love her despite things she may have done, and you need to get an idea of things to look out for- warning signs for potential problems down the road. And if you are blowing off totally benign things about her past just because you don't want to hear about it, this is going to be very hurtful- she will feel unloved and on edge, like she can't "be herself" and talk about things with you.

Just an example- I waited a long time to get into the dating game and the first guy I ever dated got to hear a lot of "stories" from me about fun times I had with "other guys". These weren't guys I dated, just guys I spent time with and did fun things together as "one of the guys" because I've always had a very tom-boyish personality and enjoyed guy things. These fun stories would come up when we'd be enjoying doing something together or I'd want to express to him something I was interested in, so I would tell him about the things I've done and enjoyed. He told me that he didn't like hearing these stories about my "past", because it made him feel like I thought more about those guys than him and that I didn't love him because I was more attracted to / had more fun with these "other guys". This cut out a great deal that we could talk about, since I did quite a bit with other guys before I met him. It also made me feel hurt that I couldn't be open with him, and it was an early sign that he had very severe issues with jealousy.

You two need to find a comfort level- where she can talk openly about her past but isn't sharing too much unnecessary information that you don't want to hear. You don't want to block out everything about her past and be completely unwilling to listen, because this will hurt her and make it harder for her to be open with you about other things. But she also needs to be respectful and not talk about too much.

So, I would suggest having some kind of sit down where you let her open up about her past but set limitations. If she starts going into too much detail, say something like "I don't need to know that", then move on, letting her continue to share, just not those details.

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I appreciate all the detailed postings, the opinions, the insights, it is truly more than I thought I'd receive. You all are wonderful, caring people whom, in your own way, I admire.

There is one thing I gather from all this that I find true, she does have needs. It is clear by her desire and having taken offense that shows me this size of this need to tell me about her past. She has told me she has repented of them, which makes me feel like whatever happened is now between her and the Lord. We all have a need to be understood, especially if we are going to marry someone. She feel like I need to know the intricacies of her past relationships to really know her, and this is something I've ignored.

As for me, I don't need to know all about someone's past to truly appreciate them. There are many things in Christ's childhood that we don't know about, that we fill in the blanks from youth to adult, and we love him with all our hearts and souls. Would it help us appreciate him if we knew all that did? Probably not. It wasn't in Heavenly Father's plan for us to know, so I don't bother to wonder because I love him regardless. But this isn't about me, as I've come to realize. This is something I need to turn to sincere prayer. I want her to feel open to talk to me about anything. The only things i didn't want to know are about intimacies, but even if she let them out they would undoubtedly keep coming up. She holds on to the past very fervently and never goes a moment without telling a story (it's something I come to admire as a sweet quality of hers, its delightful).

For those who have suggested limitations, I would read my first post carefully. I only didn't want her to talk about intimacies, the rest of her past I would love to hear about. But I am taking all of her even if I want to ignore it. I accept that she has laid with other men, dated others, fallen in love with others, been engaged once before. I wasn't always a member, and I've been down similar roads as her. Perhaps I need to talk to her closely to see just how important this is to her, and then allow her to express what she needs to. Perhaps I've been selfish for too long.

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Yes, you can probably tell. And it's true. I confess. I am a romantic and I love fairy tales. :)

But for me, and quite possibly for the woman you love, and maybe for most women, especially those who come from troubled backgrounds... I want and need to be able to trust my husband so completely, with all of me, that I can expose to him my deepest longings, joys, sorrows, hopes and dreams, as well as my deepest wounds, vulnerabilities and emotions, without fear or reservation.

I want to trust him with my everything, mind, heart, body and soul, so much that I can go to him for anything and feel completely safe and secure, as if I could allow myself to fall backwards and have complete trust that his arms would be there to catch me, because this man I want to spend eternity with loves me enough to do anything in his power to protect me from harm.

And I want him to feel that safe and secure with me as well. That I will be there, to support and defend and uplift him. To comfort him. To sooth him mind, and heart, and soul. To strengthen him. That he need never be alone, and to ever love him as if he were literally woven into the fibers of my being.

That may be idealistic, but we seek for the ideal in our need for completeness, and just as I couldn't imagine having complete trust in my Savior if I thought he would turn away from me because he didn't want to hear or accept my pleadings, I can't imagine having the kind of trust I feel makes a man and woman one, if the man I loved was not willing to let me trust him enough to share the very deepest intimacies of my heart.

Edited by Forget-Me-Not
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Yes, you can probably tell. And it's true. I confess. I am a romantic and I love fairy tales. :)

But for me, and quite possibly for the woman you love, and maybe for most women, especially those who come from troubled backgrounds... I want and need to be able to trust my husband so completely, with all of me, that I can expose to him my deepest longings, joys, sorrows, hopes and dreams, as well as my deepest wounds, vulnerabilities and emotions, without fear or reservation.

I want to trust him with my everything, mind, heart, body and soul, so much that I can go to him for anything and feel completely safe and secure, as if I could allow myself to fall backwards and have complete trust that his arms would be there to catch me, because this man I want to spend eternity with loves me enough to do anything in his power to protect me from harm.

That may be idealistic, but we seek for the ideal in our need for completeness, and just as I couldn't imagine having complete trust in my Savior if I thought he would turn away from me because he didn't want to hear or accept my pleadings, I can't imagine having the kind of trust I feel makes a man and woman one, if the man I loved was not willing to let me trust him enough to share the very deepest intimacies of my heart.

I'm inclined to agree. I think if my husband-to-be didn't want to know about my history, and the things that made me who I am today, and the things that led me to him, I'd have to ask God very seriously if I should be marrying him. That's just me personally though, obviously.

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If he wants to, yes.

But, FT, our point is: You may well regret such ignorance. Better to be overinformed than underinformed. Better to avoid a marriage that you decide you don't want than to go into it, find out some ugly history, then decide to end it (or stay married in bitter resentment).

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