didnt Jesus and Paul favor not having families


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do you interpret these passages differently than i do? because to me its clear jesus and paul promote the idea of not having families

Matthew 19:10-12

"His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

and in 1 Corinthians 7, Paul teaches that it's better for those in the church to not marry, unless being single would cause you to fornicate outside of marriage:

"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.........For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn........But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.......He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife........The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction. But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.......So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better......"

another question i had is can the unmarried people in the celestial kingdom get married to each other so they can enter into and participate in the highest level of the celestial kingdom?

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It's not clear in the Bible exactly why Paul was unmarried. But, having been a leader of some kind in the Jewish community before his coversion to Christianity, it's almost certain he was married. The most logical explanation is that his wife died. In that sense, it sheds a different light on his words. He may be speaking of being re-married. He says "unmarried and widows." to think "unmarried" means men whose wives passed away when used next to widows makes sense.

As far as Christ's remarks, I'm not certain what a eunich was at Christ's time. Find that, and I bet you have your answer.

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another question i had is can the unmarried people in the celestial kingdom get married to each other so they can enter into and participate in the highest level of the celestial kingdom?

James E. Talmage:

"In the resurrection there will be no marrying nor giving in marriage; for all questions of marital status must be settled before that time, under the authority of the Holy Priesthood, which holds the power to seal in marriage for both time and eternity."

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It's not clear in the Bible exactly why Paul was unmarried. But, having been a leader of some kind in the Jewish community before his coversion to Christianity, it's almost certain he was married. The most logical explanation is that his wife died. In that sense, it sheds a different light on his words. He may be speaking of being re-married. He says "unmarried and widows." to think "unmarried" means men whose wives passed away when used next to widows makes sense.

As far as Christ's remarks, I'm not certain what a eunich was at Christ's time. Find that, and I bet you have your answer.

Paul goes on about it for pretty much a whole chapter (and i think another time in some other book) in great detail - i think it speaks for itself. saying it is only about widows takes it out of context. he even specifies about virgins 5 times and also says "He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife". so he is very clear why he is celibate and supports it for others.

and eunuch just refers to those who dont or cant have kids

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Paul goes on about it for pretty much a whole chapter (and i think another time in some other book) in great detail - i think it speaks for itself. saying it is only about widows takes it out of context. he even specifies about virgins 5 times and also says "He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife". so he is very clear why he is celibate and supports it for others.

and eunuch just refers to those who dont or cant have kids

Speaking of taking things out of context:

When you quote Christ, you don't point out that the conversation that takes place is specifically about divorce and how he doesn't like men 'putting away their wives'.

The apostles said this was a hard thing and it would be better not to get married if that were the case, so the saviour shrugged and basically said: "Yeah? Not getting a divorce is hard. You're right. It would be easier not to be married. Some men have their genitals removed by accident. Some men have their genitals removed by the evils of other men and some by the will of God."

I replaced Eunuch with the more explicit version specifically so you can understand what he's saying.

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do you interpret these passages differently than i do? because to me its clear Jesus and paul promote the idea of not having families

Matthew 19:10-12

"His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Christ does not promote the idea of not having families. Far from it. He actually promotes the idea of a truly lasting marriage. A union between husband and wife so complete that they are in essence one flesh.

Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (Matt 19:4-6)

Now this simple and clear instructions man will corrupt. He will take it and commit adultery. He will separate, damage and destroy. Christ must then address this issue when the disciples (who seem amazed at the strict doctrine) ask,

Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. (Matt 19:7-9)

Christ then points out the exceptions to this strict command. Note, they are not the rule they are simply the exceptions to this strict rule he has already laid out. These exceptions have to do with those who never marry or remain single for various reasons (your quote from Matt 19:12). However he then concludes this teaching reminding his listeners of the original command to be one by saying, "He that is able to receive it, let him receive it" (Matt 19:12). He that is able to live this high law of marriage let him live it. Such is the importance of marriage, and by extension children within that marriage. Verse 12 is clearly the exceptions to the teaching. Do not make an exception a rule.
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do you interpret these passages differently than i do? because to me its clear jesus and paul promote the idea of not having families

Matthew 19:10-12

"His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

and in 1 Corinthians 7, Paul teaches that it's better for those in the church to not marry, unless being single would cause you to fornicate outside of marriage:

"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.........For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn........But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.......He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife........The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction. But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.......So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better......"

another question i had is can the unmarried people in the celestial kingdom get married to each other so they can enter into and participate in the highest level of the celestial kingdom?

Paul might have thaught it better to not marry again. A probelm here are that Christ and Paul are talking about two seperate things. A problem with a lot of the letters in the new testament is that they are answers to questions which are not recorded with them so we lose a lot of context... and is why a lot of times the subject often changes drasticly from verse to verse in a couple instances. How can we be sure he was talking to everyone and not to certain individuals (like those in certain offices of the clergy?).

You also have to recognise tat there are also parts where paul injects his own reasoning and not necessarily revelation (He usually does a decent job of giving notice about it tho)

Christ talks about what happens in heaven. By the time an individual gets to heaven if they are unmarried they will remain unmarried, and vice versa, if they are married they will remain married. And in this case heaven can = celestial kingdom, if a person gets theere unmarried he will remain unmarried, or vice versa.

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At some point ... we don't know how or when, people who, through no fault of their own, were not married during their life but have lived in every way to be worthy of this will be taken care of. They will not be denied the blessings. Of this I have absolute faith. If my Savior loved me enough to die for me He will most certainly make sure all is made right so I can progress.

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Sort of. Paul was convinced that the end days were just around the corner, which makes it the time for focusing on God, not the pursuing the worldy concerns and distractions that come with having a wife and children.

I should add that he wasn't always consistent or comprehensive either.

Our investigations in the previous chapter also demonstrate that Paul is dealing with a variety of issues in 1 Corinthians 7. These include being married versus becoming celibate, being married to a non-Christian versus obtaining a divorce, remaining celibate versus marrying a Christian, and marrying a Christian versus marrying a non-Christian. This, in turn, should alert us to the danger of construing any one statement in Paul's discussion as constituting his position "on marriage," as if his subject throughout was the institution of marriage per se.

It should also alert us to the fact that Paul's treatment of marriage in 1 Corinthians 7 is not designed to cover everything. He gives no ruling, for example, regarding remarriage for Christians whose non-Christian husbands or wives have left them, nor is it clear that his judgment limiting widows to marriage "only in the Lord" applies to all other Christians as well (see below).

The diversity of issues Paul addresses in 1 Corinthians 7 has also put limitations on his discussion in another way. Inasmuch as he argues here in favor of marriage, here against it, here in favor of celibacy, here against it, he has restricted the range of what he can say. He does not want to set the value of marriage too high and thereby discourage all forms of celibacy, nor does he wish to praise celibacy in a way that undermines the institution of marriage.

Hence Paul offers no laudation of the ends of marriage, nor does he enumerate the advantages of having a wife to watch over one's affairs.

-Will Deming, "Paul on Marriage and Celibacy" p. 211.

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We must always remember that in many ways most of the epistles are out of context in the sense that they were presumably replying to specific problems in the various churches to which they are addressed. We do not have the correspondence nor are we privy to the events that instigated the replies, we can only infer what some of the problems and questions were.

Therefore, while I realize that all this is scripture it is in some sense out of context.

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As others have spoken regarding 1 Corinthians I will speak regarding Matthew 19. In reviewing the verses you selected in context, everything becomes much more clearer.

3 ¶The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

Pharisees: "Is it alright for anyone to get a divorce?"

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Christ: "Do you recall that God made man and women?"

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Christ: "And that for the cause of marriage they leave their parents and together as husband and wife?"

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Christ: "At which point they are no longer two individuals but a married couple. Having been so designed by God to become such, men shouldn't break such unions apart."

7 They say unto him, Why did Moses command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

Pharisees: "Then why did Moses tell us that in order to break such unions we should get a divorce?"

8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Christ: "In the beginning divorce didn't exist. However because he knew would leave your spouse anyways, due to the hardness of your heart, he gave you a proper proceedure to do." [similar to how the Lord suffered Israel to have a king in 1 Samuel 8]

9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Christ: "Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery."

10 ¶His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

Disciples: "In that case it would be better that those who divorce for reasons other than sexual infidelity should never remarry."

11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

Christ: "This cannot however be applied to all men but only to those to whom it is applicable."

12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Christ: "For there are some men who are eunuchs and are unable to have sex. Some because they were born that way, others because someone castrated them and some because they do it to themselves for their religion."

Christ: "Someone who is a eunuch doesn't commit adultery in marrying such a divorcee because they can't have sex. If you can't have sex, you can't committ adultery."

Christ: "Those who are able to have sex, these are who this law applies to."

So yes you could say that I interpret that scripture differently than you do =).

As to your question of:

another question i had is can the unmarried people in the celestial kingdom get married to each other so they can enter into and participate in the highest level of the celestial kingdom?

Those who receive a celestial resurrection will live on the earth during the millennium which will be a Terrestrial habitation.

In the celestial kingdom there are three degrees.

D&C 131:1-4

1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

When the determination of which of these three degrees of celestial glory someone worthy of the celestial kingdom is assigned to not been revealed.

Some will receive a celestial resurrection and come to inhabit the earth during the millennium who have not had a fullness of opportunity to receive marriage during mortal life. For these there will be the opportunity to marry. Whether this opportunity is relegated solely to the millennium or not we do not know. However if after a 1000 years I had not yet gotten married, I would not bank on being able to get married thereafter.

Some will receive a celestial resurrection and come to inhabit the earth during the millennium who, per the determination of Christ, have had a fullness of opportunity to receive marriage during mortal life. For these individuals it is sadly to late. They will remain single and separate for the rest of their eternal existence.

D&C 132:17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
Edited by Martain
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So are you saying Paul was against the continuance of the human race?

pauls words not mine. anyway, paul and many other early christians thought they lived in the end times, so no need to have babies

as for those who think it applies to certain members of clergy, i would say 1st, i dont think that is compatible with what he says and how he says it, 2nd - the lds gospel considers marriage and families to basically be the best path for everyone\

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and in 1 Corinthians 7, Paul teaches that it's better for those in the church to not marry, unless being single would cause you to fornicate outside of marriage:

"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.........For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn........But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.......He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife........The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction. But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.......So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better......"

Paul was an apocalypticist. He expected that the end was near. One interpretation of his stance re marriage or slavery was that since the end was near anyone, it was best of people to focus on their salvation and not put their focus into changing their social standing.

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It could also be that in some cases where they appear to cousel individuals not to get married that they are speaking to those about to be sent on missions, and their counsel is to not get married just to leave their spouse for a long while.

Since some who interpreted the texts long ago sought for celibacy and not getting married, it could also be some of that verbage crept into the text.

There are a lot of possibilities.

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Sort of. Paul was convinced that the end days were just around the corner, which makes it the time for focusing on God, not the pursuing the worldy concerns and distractions that come with having a wife and children.

If the Apostles of Christ's day believed that the end was near (and they did) how do we know that Modern-day Apostles are right about their counsel?

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