Abuse

[beefche]

I agree with you in your observations and your points. It's a heinous action and to falsely accuse someone of such is just as (at least) heinous. Call the actions horrible, but if they are not truly abusive, then leave the labels behind.

What I find equally distressing is some men who come on the board questioning if their actions are abusive. Again, not sure if he was abusive, but certainly when we say and do things in anger, those are not always abusive situations.

[Vort]

I think this thread was started, more likely, directed at one or another specific references to abuse that the author finds unreliable, and wanted to point that out publicly. Just my guess, but I could be 'judging' incorrectly!

I am the original poster of this thread. If I had wanted to point out "one or another specific references to abuse that [i find] unreliable," I would have done so.

[beefche]

I am the original poster of this thread. If I had wanted to point out "one or another specific references to abuse that [i find] unreliable," I would have done so.

I don't know, Vort. You are pretty shy, reticent, and keep your opinions to yourself so often.

[Vort]

I don't know, Vort. You are pretty shy, reticent, and keep your opinions to yourself so often.

A self-portrait:

[annewandering]

I am offended at your offense. How dare you!

Of course you post to be judged. Judgment does not imply condemnation. The alternative is that you post to be ignored, which is abusrd.

You are wrong. I post to add my opinion and information that might be useful to others. I do not post for you or any one to judge me.

I do not ignore you but I am not going to judge your veracity either. I am going to assume you are posting attempting to be helpful to others. And no I do not believe assuming is judging.

[Vort]

You are wrong. I post to add my opinion and information that might be useful to others. I do not post for you or any one to judge me.

It is not a matter of judging you, but of judging what you write. How do you suppose your opinion might be of any use to anyone else? Well, obviously, by them reading what you wrote and then making a judgment about it.

Judging what you write is not the same as judging your worth as an individual. The latter is not given to use to do, but the former is absolutely necessary in order for us just to live our lives.

[Guest]

A friend had me convinced that her husband was being financially neglectful if not abusive when she didn't have any maternity clothes and he wouldn't let her buy any (she was just starting to show). She talked a lot about how he wouldn't let her have a debit card and she had to ask for cash to buy groceries. Then I learned that actually, he had given her money for clothes and she used it eating fast food several days in a row, instead. There was no more money to give her for extras that month. She has run them into the ground financially over and over again by spending money they don't have, and that's why he took her card. He's a decent guy who was trying to save them from bankruptcy, but if you heard her side of it, he was a selfish jerk who wouldn't provide basic necessities for the woman carrying his child.

It is possible to make things sound like abuse that aren't. I think that's hard to do when it comes to physical and verbal abuse, without outright lying, so when someone says they're being hurt, I err on the side of believing them.

[Martain]

I've come to recognize that giving advice can be a dangerous past time. As the internet is anonymous we generally think that we are not held accountable for the advice we give others. This simply is not so.

If my advice is sound, based on true principals and correct knowledge, then their acting upon it will bless them and I will be blessed.

If my advice is illfounded, based on incorrect principals and incorrect knowledge, then their acting upon it will harm them and I will be held accountable.

When an individual cries "abuse" there will be some who advice "leave them" or "get a divorce" and we know that there are indeed situations in which this is the correct path to pursue.

Yet are any of us so well apprised of the issues involved as to be confident that our advice is in harmony with the will of the Lord so as to advise them such?

Who here would like to be held accountable good or bad before God for the breakup of a husband and wife or parent and child? For the destruction of a family? To the temporal consequences which will last generations?

If those who have the stewardship to make such decisions are so cautious to give such advice, should we who are without such stewardship be eager to do otherwise?

Can we not be quick to console and empathize and slow to advice anything other than to refer them to those best qualified to guide them in their actions? At least that's what I say.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Martain

[Just_A_Guy]

It is possible to make things sound like abuse that aren't. I think that's hard to do when it comes to physical and verbal abuse, without outright lying, so when someone says they're being hurt, I err on the side of believing them.

This is more or less my approach, to a point . . .

If a woman comes to my office (or if I encounter one here) claiming abuse, I will invariably tell her to get out of the situation. Partly because of the physical danger (the last thing I want is for one of my clients to turn up dead), partly because one can't really think clearly when one's in that kind of situation, and partly to force the woman to do some introspection and consider whether she really considers the behavior abusive.

[Anecdotally, most women I've known to be in abusive relationships do not use the word "abuse". At least, not until the relationship is over.]

What I will not necessarily tell her to do, is to notify law enforcement authorities--because (through my clients) I've been on the other side of those kinds of accusations: I know how easy they are to make, how little the system requires to substantiate them, and how absolutely devastating they can be to the accused. I don't discourage such reports; but (unless there are children involved and the mandatory reporting requirement is triggered; or unless there appears to be immediate threat to life or physical safety) I try to encourage women to make sure that any formal allegations they make are well-founded.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Just_A_Guy

[JudoMinja]

This is more or less my approach, to a point . . .

If a woman comes to my office (or if I encounter one here) claiming abuse, I will invariably tell her to get out of the situation. Partly because of the physical danger (the last thing I want is for one of my clients to turn up dead), partly because one can't really think clearly when one's in that kind of situation, and partly to force the woman to do some introspection and consider whether she really considers the behavior abusive.

[Anecdotally, most women I've known to be in abusive relationships do not use the word "abuse". At least, not until the relationship is over.]

What I will not necessarily tell her to do, is to notify law enforcement authorities--because (through my clients) I've been on the other side of those kinds of accusations: I know how easy they are to make, how little the system requires to substantiate them, and how absolutely devastating they can be to the accused. I don't discourage such reports; but (unless there are children involved and the mandatory reporting requirement is triggered; or unless there appears to be immediate threat to life or physical safety) I try to encourage women to make sure that any formal allegations they make are well-founded.

This is amazing, spot-on advice evidence of experience with such matters, especially the part I bolded. I remember when I was with my ex, I was doing everything I could to convince myself that what he was doing wasn't abuse. I absolutely refused to use that word to describe my situation, and when others would tell me he was being abusive, I would question it and sugar-coat things and hide the details... I was jumping through mental hoops trying to convince myself and everyone around me that my husband was anything BUT abusive. It wasn't until my will had broken and I was ready to start looking for an escape that I finally admitted to myself I was going through abuse, and even then I was wary of using that word to describe it.

Due to the potential danger of such situations, my initial reaction is also to advise people to "get out of the situation". I focus on safety and try to alert people to any sense of fear they may have- as that was part of what finally convinced me. I realized how terrified I was of my own husband and that I was fearful for my own life and the life of our child. That the fear was turning me into someone I was not. I see this feeling of "fear" as the best identifier of most abuse cases- and I think that anyone in a situation that is causing them to be afraid needs to get somewhere where they feel safe.

Only after the individual has sought out safety do I delve deeper (if they continue coming to me for advice). That is when I try to determine the nature of the "abuse" and if the situation really merits a permanant separation. I don't see advizing someone to "leave" and advizing someone to "divorce" as the same thing, because one can leave and still go back. In fact, this is often the case in real abusive situations- when the fear is strong enough to trigger the fight-or-flight instinct most abusee's will flee... but then when their emotions have settled and they've had time to think about things, they go back. The idea is to get them to flee to a safe place, then work with them to figure out what their next step should be- and if there is real abuse putting them in danger, convince them to stay away.

This tactic can also help identify situations where it's not really abuse, because the idividual will see the "flee" and "find safety" admonitions as over-the-top and needlessly drastic. They'll hem and haw over it, because such an action would require quite a bit of sacrifice- leaving behind possessions, home, etc to get away from the danger quickly instead of going through a slower process that would probably line things up the way they'd prefer. I think, if someone uses such advice to seek safety as an excuse to go through with a divorce they were already set on when they weren't really in any danger, then nothing I could have said to convince them to stay and work things out would have made any difference.