Sign in to follow this  
jayanna

a question of offense

Recommended Posts

There is a difference in gender stuff. My section of my office is predominantly female and our boss has finally admitted we are going to talk amonst ourselves--our new instruction is to simply be respectful of each other's feelings.

RescueMom, my heart breaks for your kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

None that I've noticed either. I've noticed a trend though, and it might just be confirmation bias, but it seems the majority of these kind of events revolve around women. Either woman are on both sides of the giving and receiving offense line or just on the receiving offense line. Now before anyone freaks out, men are perfectly capable of being offended and giving offense.

I'm wondering if it's differences in the way the genders handle social conflict. Either in that women are more sensitive to these things (in keying in on them and the implications they draw from them) or that they're more likely to share their hurt with others (or a combination of both).

You are very right. Women are FAR more prone to experiencing these kinds of problems- from either end. I can't think of any official references off the top of my head, but I know there have been several publications on this societal gender difference and know that it was briefly mentioned in my college psychology text.

This difference is most obviously apparent in the middle and high school setting, and there are any number movies that have revolved around this fact or at least alluded to it. I believe it is because men are genetially predisposed to handle conflict physically. It's quick, dirty, and they are also therefore less likely to hold grudges. Of course, as society steers further away from allowing and/or encouraging physical conflict, the methods men use to resolve conflict have been changing and adapting, but I believe it is just part of their nature to rely on might first. Women, on the other hand, tend to be more conniving and can be very mean. Gossip and harsh comments can be a result of our natural tendency to rely on words and round-about means to get "payback".

Women also just seem to be more naturally "gossipy", even if they have the best intentions. We (as a gender) tend to take more interest in the details of people's lives and seem to gain a feeling of status and superiority the more we know about other people. This difference in our genders and how we handle and view social situations is very real, and this is why it is much more common for their to be problems like this in Relief Society than in Priesthood.

This is all part of the natural man, and is something we are supposed to be working toward separating ourselves from in order to be more Christ-like. I think that is why it stands out and is more distressing when we see it at church than when we see it in other situations. I could tell you countless stories and examples of this that I personally experienced at school and work, but they hardly bother me at all and I can easily get past them. From my personal experience in regards to how often this happens at church, I only have the experiences I already shared here. So we are doing better at being more Christ-like. It's just more hurtful to see un-Christlike behavior from someone we are expecting it out of and in a church setting than it would be to see it somewhere else or from someone else.

And of course, there are always going to be exceptions to the rule. Not every woman is like this, nor is every man immune to it. But sociology has clearly identified that this is a gender difference and relates to our natural genetic tendancies for interaction and conflict resolution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would have stopped going to church many, many times if I let the insults stop me. I am grateful I have a testimony strong enough to keep me going. If I were an investigator I would never have joined if I were in most of the ward I have been in.

I grew up in a very rich ward, tho my family swtruggled, somehow I never felt left out or offended.

When I was 13 the ward boundries were changed & i ened up in a different ward. I was made fun of for everything. I didn't play sports well, and even the leaders in YW seriously made fun of me. The young Women would walk out on me and tell me I wasn't good enough to talk to them.

After my mission, the young adults gave me the cold shoulder and even told me to back off several times.

When I was married, the first itme, people didn't like my husband, so they didn't like me.

I think I was finally sorta liked when I divorced and moved into my old stake, but differnt ward.

When I married the second time, we had to deal woth the fact that we were not a real family because of divorce. I felt a bit judged, tho nobody bothered to ask what happned, but divorce was bad. Finally, we looked for a home in a ward my husband was in before we go married, it's not perfect, but much better. I know some people still judge me because my son is not the best behaved, but things are getting better. Also I can be a bit shy, and I have a hard time getting to know people, but I don't feel like people talk behind my back. I hope it stays that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

None that I've noticed either. I've noticed a trend though, and it might just be confirmation bias, but it seems the majority of these kind of events revolve around women. Either woman are on both sides of the giving and receiving offense line or just on the receiving offense line. Now before anyone freaks out, men are perfectly capable of being offended and giving offense.

I'm wondering if it's differences in the way the genders handle social conflict. Either in that women are more sensitive to these things (in keying in on them and the implications they draw from them) or that they're more likely to share their hurt with others (or a combination of both).

I a previous ward, my wife noted that a group of the sisters seemed to enjoy sitting around bad-mouthing their husbands, and about very personal issues: hygiene, job, even sex. My wife took some pleasure in talking nice about me, and shortly the women stopped talking badly about their husbands -- at least in front of Sister Vort.

I understand this type of thing is not uncommon among women, based on what women in my life (wife, mother, sisters) have said. I have never experienced anything similar among a group of men. In some ways, we seem to live in different worlds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the way Elder Maxwell often couched such individuals/interactions - they are the "clinical material" upon which we all practice our Christianity.

Quickly forgotten by those who are offended is the fact that the Church is “for the perfecting of the saints” (Eph. 4:12); it is not a well-provisioned rest home for the already perfected.

Likewise, unremembered by some is the reality that in the kingdom we are each other’s clinical material; the Lord allows us to practice on each other, even in our imperfections. And each of us knows what it is like to be worked on by a “student” rather than a senior surgeon. Each of us, however unintentionally, has also inflicted some pain.

It helps me to mentally frame the actions of those such as you described Jayanna as the actions of an "ill" individual - one is who clearly not whole. One who deserves some pity (and potentially rebuke) for their weakness and thoughtless simple-minded gossip.

In discussing marital relations and conflict, a BYU Education Week presenter stated:

"[W]hen people take the cheap shot, we can recognize, 'well, this must be about them'. Because healthy people never attack. Let me just repeat that, because this is really important. Healthy people don't attack!" Lili Andersen

It helps me (when I am able to bring it into my active thoughts) to contemplate that the individual gossiping, back-stabbing, or otherwise speaking ill of another would not be doing so unless they were unwell themselves. They may be insecure, they may be prideful, I don't know, but what is clear is that they are not emotionally well. They too can become our “project” to help similar to the way that the poor and needy of temporal goods can be a focus. It’s just that the help they need isn’t so readily apparent, and not so easily succored (or suffered!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I a previous ward, my wife noted that a group of the sisters seemed to enjoy sitting around bad-mouthing their husbands, and about very personal issues: hygiene, job, even sex. My wife took some pleasure in talking nice about me, and shortly the women stopped talking badly about their husbands -- at least in front of Sister Vort.

I understand this type of thing is not uncommon among women, based on what women in my life (wife, mother, sisters) have said. I have never experienced anything similar among a group of men. In some ways, we seem to live in different worlds.

Going thru a bad marrige and now a good one. I can say that no matter what happens at home, one should only say positive about her husband. For me that was one of the only things that kept me sane when in the bad, and help me to live with the bad. And it is also just makeing me realize how lucky I am, now, since it is easier to speak well of my husband, current husband. ( I see it is easier to do that it was with the first husband, but that isn't my point.) My point is when you speak ill of the ones you love, to others, you see it more and more, when you speak well of of them, you see the good, esier and easier.

I would think that would be the same with anyone, VTs, RS sisters and President. Speak well of them and you will find it easier to see the good, speak ill, and you will find the bad. I think a lot of it has to do with how that trains your thinking to find good or find bad in others. I want to find the good in others. My ex would find bad in everyone. I mean EVERYONE. People he never met. Someone who is driving aside him (and they were not even doing anything wrong.) He loooks at a face and judges, I just can't be around that. He makes up a whole, horrible, history on people just by a look on thier face. Sad. I find myself to be happier when I look for good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am really sad about the experiences of some posters on this thread. People shouldn't treat dogs that way, nevermind people.

I just have to say that so many women are not like this at all. I don't think I've ever belonged to a faith community like the ones mentioned, and I hung out with other women/girls mostly. This could relate to my own low threshold for drama and self-righteousness. Just not interested. And while I've only been to one LDS Sunday service, I don't remember those women tearing each other down either. (Talking about their own general unworthiness, yes, but not others'.) Then again, maybe I was the one being talked about. That never would have occurred to me if not for this thread.

Anyway, it's sad. My LDS friends are some of the nicest folks on the planet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jayanna, I sit here with tears in my eyes and a feeling in my heart that I feel I must share. So many people make up our Church. People make mistakes. It is my belief; as children of our Heavenly Father, it is how we handle these mistakes that put us where we are in the gospel.

You are a very good person. I read your cry for the good and the ugly. This is how I believe it should be. We all struggle and are not perfect. My prayers are with you that you will get the help that you need as you help these sisters and their families.

I took a calling in Church that by no means was I ready for. I did this calling with much bended knee power and terror. I felt that this one couple was keeping me from what I thought I should be doing with this calling in our own ward. I was working at the church building with some sisters sitting up for an activity we were having. I express this thought when this couple’s name came up. I was hurt that they did not believe that I would do all that I could for their daughter. They just did not trust me to do my job. (So I thought) I heard a noise and saw this couple walking through the door to the room. I could see the hurt on their faces clear across the room. I saw another face, the face of Jesus Christ. I saw Him on the other side of the door. Yes, the picture of Christ standing at the door. One, as a member that I walked passed thousands of times. My first thought was, who could be standing on the other side of that door when we make comments that we think justify our feelings? My next was not who might be standing there, but who is standing there. I remembering thinking what have I done? I turned to this couple and told them I was sorry. His words shut off and he walked away with his wife following him. I turned to the others and told them I was so sorry that made the comment. That I know my Father in Heaven was not proud of me taking part in any comments that might hurt another. I raced after the couple. I begged them to listen if not for just a moment. They sit in their car ready to leave. The Spirit was with me that day. The saying God doesn’t call the qualified; He qualifies the called is so true. Words were said that day. The truth I cannot really tell you all of them. I know the Spirit helped me that day and I was forgiven. We remain friends and they have helped me with my less active family members. I love them and their family very much and have had the opportunity to serve them often. I called each of those sisters and told them again I was sorry for my comment. I then called my leadership over me and told her what I did and what I did to some how correct what I had done. I know, I was what I called “Humbled by the Spirit”.

I would make the opportunity to talk to your Relief Society President alone. I would tell her your concerns in the same loving manner that you express to these sisters you are trying to help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the example I gave of some women in a previous ward, let me add that it was a relatively small group of women that engaged in such negative talk about their husbands. Only a handful, perhaps a half dozen or so. The women in general were not catty, at least not that we ever saw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, then, what is the best way to address these fellow imperfect Saints?

A lot of us don't seem to like the idea of just letting it go, but what is the best way to reprimand them?

I had mentioned this problem to our Bishop a few months ago.

All I was told was that "we have a perfect Church with imperfect people in it"

and to just "let it go"

It is hard to let it go when the object of the criticism is a friend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People are starting to roll thier eyes at me when I say something nice about someone new at church

I had something similar happening to me before. We were in a Saturday meeting and our RS president was late, the few sisters who were there decided to start gossiping about her. Something like this happened:

Sister1: She is ALWAYS late! It's ridiculous! She has so many kids that obviously can't handle her calling!!!

Me: *thinking to myself* Shut up Suzie, shut up...keep calm.

Sister2: And did you see her size? Oh my goodness, she can hardly walk!

Me: *thinking to myself and singing to myself* "I am a child of God and He...."

Sister1: *one whispering* "And I heard the husband was..."

Me: *thinking to myself* I heard enough...

Me to sisters: *coughing* Listen...I think that's enough not so?

Sister1: What do you mean?

Me to sisters: What do I mean? Do I need to spell it out?

*Sister 1 looks at Sister 2 and rolls her eyes twice while shaking her head*

Me: My brother is an ophthalmologist, you may want to pay him a visit and check your eyes....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had mentioned this problem to our Bishop a few months ago.

All I was told was that "we have a perfect Church with imperfect people in it"

and to just "let it go"

It is hard to let it go when the object of the criticism is a friend.

Indeed, I think more should be done.

If someone is called to a leadership role, they have a little more responsibility for their actions.

We might be full of imperfect people and everyone needs to grow their faith despite this, but why justify making it harder?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

I've noticed that women in my ward generally don't husband bash. In fact, I only hear women speak kindly of their husbands. (With the exception of one of our RS teachers, whose lessons mostly consist of telling us all how smart and talented she is, and how dumb and incompetent her husband is and how he would never get by without her. We all know her husband to be a great, smart, helpful guy so I think she's mostly making a butt of herself.)

I've been in a circle of women before where that was the thing to do, and they were frustrated at my refusal to trash my husband in front of them, so they tried doing it for me and telling me how to feel about his flaws. I stopped spending time with them.

I think it's a "natural woman" kind of thing to do, and if someone is willing to refuse to participate, others will follow, and the culture will change. Maybe it's the same with cattiness. If enough people refuse to participate and stick up for the underdogs, then hopefully it becomes necessary to find something else to talk about (or at least somewhere else. Let them do it in their homes if they must,),

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes I tell myself, that must be why they are in a leardership role, to give them opportunity to serve the others they are talking about and grow better feelings towards them. I do not live in a predominantly LDS area. Our ward is not very big, well, it hasn't always been as large as it is now. We are going to get a bigger building soon so we are growing. At one time I was doing 5 callings at the same time! I was a nursery leader once, but other than that I have never had a leadership calling of any kind, so I don't know what it's like, and I keep wondering if I'm being too hard on them. I have never been a counselor, and have never experienced the 'sisterhood' that many tell me that RS is about, though I have some friends in the ward that have encouraged me not to give up. I haven't had a VT partner in about 6 years now. I have asked for one a couple of times. I don't have a calling anymore, and haven't for about 2 years.

I ran into one of the RS counselors this week and told her about my time issue and giving rides to sisters. I realize that my being late seems to really offend some others, though I really don't understand why. I never notice if anyone else is late, unless they are coming in the door with me and I greet them. I usually come in during opening prayer or the opening hymn. My kids are usually there before I am since I drop them off early to empty my vehicle. I really do want to stop offending them with this lateness of mine, so I asked this counselor if maybe some sisters might be able to carpool them into their own routes into church, and she rather speculated on why one of them would need a ride if she lived so close to church? "I don't know, she just asked for it and I'm doing it," is what I told her, "she is really very grateful when I pick her and her kids up, and I don't have to have carseats we use hers." Now I wonder if I made it worse for them, how will it get around now that the mill has the info that they are asking for rides....sigh, but it seems reasonable that if some certain sisters think I should be on time maybe one or two could help me?

Some of them though I have found out recently have been laughing at me when I wasn't there. I caught some last Sunday laughing about me being late that day, again giving rides I don't think they knew about. One of them in particular I have spoken on the phone with and was my VT, and it never occured to me that she would talk about me that way, but I guess it should have since every time I talk to her she says nasty things about everyone that occurs to her. She is also a counselor in the RS, which is I think her 4th or 5th leadership calling in a row now, which is also why it surprises me when she does it, every time I'm surprised for some reason. Last time I actually jumped.

Maybe it is a gender thing since my hubby is in the bishopric and never says anything about anyone. Sometimes he goes to meetings and I don't even know where or who with, he just goes. I know he does service that he doesn't talk about also. I think his calling might be why some of the sisters seem so comfortable talking around me about others, they assume that I already know a lot of things that I don't about others in the ward...like who smokes or who doesn't wear their garments or is getting food from welfare...no, my husband doesn't tell me. I tell them that too, but I'm not sure they believe me. It's not any of my business, and I don't feel good about myself by cutting down others.

I know the church is true because the Lord told me so when I prayed. I know the Book of Mormon is truly the Word of God. I know that the service my family does in the ward has helped them grow more like Christ. I love the temple. I have learned from personal experience that those ordinances are appreciated and necessary to our loved ones on the other side of the veil. I love family scripture study and family home evenings. I love my Savior, and want to serve Him. Sometimes, though, sometimes I wonder, am I really serving these sisters by encouraging them to go to the purgatory I find myself in? Sometimes I wish we could skip RS and primary, just go to sacrament and gospel principles and then leave. The rest feels like walking through a long pit of vipers, like someone could strike at me at any moment and I am trying to carry these sisters on my shoulders to try to get through.

I'm sure there are other sisters in the ward who feel the way I do, but I can't tell who they are or how to find them. I don't know who to trust anymore. The worst part is when someone says they will be glad to help with something, only to get a phone call later and they say they won't because certain sisters spoke with them about it and they don't think they should help after all. Sisters don't trust me either, what do you do when someone in leadership calls you and tells you that you shouldn't help...even suggesting there might be legal issues in helping, like their carseats are not appropriate and you might be liable if something happens on the car ride, etc?

There is always some reasonable argument not to help, like, oh you shouldn't get in the middle of their issues you could get hurt picking someone up for church when someone doesn't want them to go. The live in a bad neighborhood, don't expose your children to it. You are keeping them from learning independence. You are encouraging them to expect more help from the ward, the ward is already stretched thin... You are making them a target with their neighbors when they see Mormons picking them up for church. If you help people that aren't members yet, you are actually trying to bribe them into membership and it could be in the media that the church does that. You are hurting the name of the church when you help non-members, and dragging children into it on top of that. You are not being considerate of teachers in primary and YW/YM when you bring people they are not expecting to thier classes. Our ward cannot afford spending its classroom resources on nonmembers. I have heard every single one of these from ward leaders.

I even got kicked out of a classroom as a teacher of Gospel Principles once. I was a ward missionary and the ward mission leader very rarely came to church, so I was asked to teach it. I usually had 12-20 people in class, and one Sunday I was going into the room and stopped by the RS pres. She and her counselors were arguing in front of the classroom door with a counselor in the bishopric, actually 2 of them shouting at him and pointing their fingers. They said that since that room was used for RS meeting, it was 'set apart' specifically for RS and they needed it both 2 and 3rd hours to prepare the room for the Holy Spirit. Basically they wanted to decorate and play hymns in there during 2nd hour and have RS during 3rd hour. The class was standing in the hallway, since it was the only classroom that wasn't full that would fit us. It was a really nice spring day outside, so I suggested that if we could have some chairs we could have class outside that day....I got a laugh and a roll of the eyes. I also suggested that the class could finish up by helping to decorate and move chairs, etc... also not accepted. So I ushered the class further down the hallway and let them continue their argument. The class crammed ourselves into a much smaller room, with most of us standing during the class. We lost the classroom and 2/3 of the class after that Sunday.

There have been some amazing experiences, though, like when there were 2 new Spanish speaking families in the ward, and I don't know Spanish, but I was trying to learn. Everytime I needed to I could give my testimony, pray and even gave a talk in fluent Spanish at a baptism. One mom told me tearfully that my accent sounded like I was from her family's home in Mexico, and that she knew I was truly a sister sent from HF. Although she had to say it through a missionary interpreting for me lol. It was great to know that that sister knew her HF loved her and He did that through me. It was very humbling and amazing. I know that HF is with me during these things, but why is it allowed to go on in His church? It is so embarrassing when an investigator/new member gets a big dose of it. Is it just to test them? Is it a test for me? Is it a test for the leaders?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jayanna, this sounds like a far more extensive problem than simple gossip and mean comments. The fact that sisters in leadership positions are causing this many problems for your ward is a serious issue. I would recommend doing what Ram said and informing the bishop of the problems, and if the bishop doesn't do anything about it I would inform the Stake President.

This sounds terrible! Worse than anything I have ever experienced in any ward, and I think it really needs to be corrected. When the issues of mistreatment happened with my mom, one of the women involved was the RS president and another was the YW president. Since then, the entire leadership of the ward has been revamped with a new bishop, and new presidents in all the positions. The only one that seems to be having any problems is the now Primary president who was the YW president involved in the earlier issues. The environment in the rest of the ward has become much more inviting, even if there are some sisters who still gossip and back bite.

Your ward sounds like it is also in need of some leadership changes, and I hope you can get this resolved quickly. I'm so sorry you have to go through this every Sunday, and I once again applaud your efforts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, judo, I think I might work up the courage and just do that. I keep getting hope that things will be different with a change of leadership, but it seems to be the same people rotated around, or members of the same clique rotated around.

For a few months, I don't know if anyone on here noticed, but I didn't get on the website....I was having this huge struggle. I hadn't gotten a new calling in so long, I asked for one and have been told no, no, no, and no. My hubby started to avoid talking with me about anything concerning church. He was gripey and reluctant to talk to me, and I couldn't figure out why. He even avoided going to the temple with me. Finally he did go to the temple with me, and I asked him why he thought the Lord didn't want me to have a calling, did I do something wrong or offend someone? I had asked the bishop that and his wife got extremely offended with me, she said that I didn't trust him, so I had not approached the topic again. This time I spoke about it with my husband and that's when I figured it out...it was because somebody married to somebody didn't like me, and they were not going to give me any calling. He didn't say anything at first, it was the silence that told me really, but he said, "What if it isn't the Lord?" I tried to swallow that one, I really did. I thought, well, I'll try waiting it out, eventually I'll be forgivable and this will blow over. I tried being more helpful, going to every activity and helping out, cleaning the church building when someone else forgot their turn, inviting others to ride to the temple with me, etc. Still no calling. I asked for a calling again, still no. Could I have the assignment to clean the buildings? No Just the bathrooms then? no. I made bread for sacrament, they wouldn't use it.

Finally, my hubby said he didn't want to go to church any more, he wanted to be released, and he wouldn't talk to anyone about it. I said I wanted to call the bishop and he forbade me. So while he was out, I called the Stake Pres. and asked for a meeting. We went. He was great, really great, he helped me to love my bishop again, and helped me feel better about myself. All my hubby would say was, "My wife hasn't had a calling for two years," and the Stake Pres looked at him and knew exactly what was going on. Enough said. He helped me feel better, because For a while I didn't feel temple worthy, like I was dirty or something and everyone knew why but me. I thought things would get better, and they have a little bit, not a lot, but a little. There have been some changes in callings lately, same rotation though. STill bad for people that are seen with me, still bad for investigators, and still no calling. Maybe I should go talk to him again, but maybe I'm being impatient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Thanks, judo, I think I might work up the courage and just do that. I keep getting hope that things will be different with a change of leadership, but it seems to be the same people rotated around, or members of the same clique rotated around.

For a few months, I don't know if anyone on here noticed, but I didn't get on the website....I was having this huge struggle. I hadn't gotten a new calling in so long, I asked for one and have been told no, no, no, and no. My hubby started to avoid talking with me about anything concerning church. He was gripey and reluctant to talk to me, and I couldn't figure out why. He even avoided going to the temple with me. Finally he did go to the temple with me, and I asked him why he thought the Lord didn't want me to have a calling, did I do something wrong or offend someone? I had asked the bishop that and his wife got extremely offended with me, she said that I didn't trust him, so I had not approached the topic again. This time I spoke about it with my husband and that's when I figured it out...it was because somebody married to somebody didn't like me, and they were not going to give me any calling. He didn't say anything at first, it was the silence that told me really, but he said, "What if it isn't the Lord?" I tried to swallow that one, I really did. I thought, well, I'll try waiting it out, eventually I'll be forgivable and this will blow over. I tried being more helpful, going to every activity and helping out, cleaning the church building when someone else forgot their turn, inviting others to ride to the temple with me, etc. Still no calling. I asked for a calling again, still no. Could I have the assignment to clean the buildings? No Just the bathrooms then? no. I made bread for sacrament, they wouldn't use it.

Finally, my hubby said he didn't want to go to church any more, he wanted to be released, and he wouldn't talk to anyone about it. I said I wanted to call the bishop and he forbade me. So while he was out, I called the Stake Pres. and asked for a meeting. We went. He was great, really great, he helped me to love my bishop again, and helped me feel better about myself. All my hubby would say was, "My wife hasn't had a calling for two years," and the Stake Pres looked at him and knew exactly what was going on. Enough said. He helped me feel better, because For a while I didn't feel temple worthy, like I was dirty or something and everyone knew why but me. I thought things would get better, and they have a little bit, not a lot, but a little. There have been some changes in callings lately, same rotation though. STill bad for people that are seen with me, still bad for investigators, and still no calling. Maybe I should go talk to him again, but maybe I'm being impatient.

This is crazy wierd, Jayanna! It's like these women are the school cheerleaders and you're the school geek in those 80's movies!

I can't believe they wouldn't even give you a calling! In my understanding, only disfellowed members don't get callings! Those who do not have callings are either in-between callings, only semi-active, or the ward is too big that there are just a lot more people than there are callings - but that still won't have somebody active not have a calling for 2 years.

Well, the only thing you can do is just do whatever you feel is best to serve the ward. Don't worry about being late because of circumstances beyond your control - like picking up other members, etc. And don't worry about what they say behind your back. The only thing you can really do is stand up for people if you feel they are being mistreated, let the bishopric/stake leadership know what is going on and have them act on it, sustain your husband in his calling and just worry about your own personal spiritual progression. The rest you leave up to God.

Big hugs!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

anatess, you are better than I.

My daydream advice is to egg these women's homes.

I'll provide the eggs... and I'll even send in toilet paper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I don't know what to do when someone, someones, especially church leaders say offensive things about others, especially new members/investigators.

I realize it is foolish to take offense when it is intended, but I don't know what to do or say. Here are a couple of situations: a sis who has just left the room upset after telling me and a few others that she has recently had yet another miscarriage, and I say, "I feel so bad, I just don't know what to say to her, I'd better follow her home to make sure she gets there okay..." and the RS pres. says, "The reason God won't give her another baby is because she doesn't control the ones she already has, everyone has seen the way they behave." In front of everyone in the room....how could I possibly respond to that? If I just leave without saying anything could this be construed as agreement? Should I disagree with my RS pres in front of everyone? At the time I just worked my mouth, open and shut open and shut, and said something like," Uhhh she's leaving I'd better go now" and left.

Another instance has happened time and time again in our ward. We have a new member/usually an investigator who starts coming to church. I have noticed that if the person does not make much money, they are usually not welcomed, and are always talked about the minute they leave the room. IF they have children and are poor someone invariably says that they are the next welfare family that the church doesn't need, and their kids are complained about quite a bit. Recently (in the past two weeks) two new moms in the ward overheard on separate occasions some of the sisters speaking this way about them and their kids( one of them actually did not know that the church had a welfare system). Both moms had decided not to come back to church, both moms (after a lot of visiting and all the encouragement I could think of) have now decided to come back, but are extremely jaded and are reluctant to leave their children in primary. I have told them to bring their littlest ones to Gospel Principles class with them rather than skip classes altogether.

I keep hoping that someone will notice that we can't keep investigators, but so far after about 10 years of it now I am feeling really discouraged. I don't have a calling, which gives me time to do things for these dear new little sisters, like give them rides to/from church activities. I sit with them in classes to answer any questions they might have. I tell them who they need to talk to about things like preparing for baptism/temple endowments... what home teachers are for, etc. Sometimes I help with weddings if they aren't married, and things like that, but but I lose them when they hear words that they should not have to hear at church.

I have discussed this with my VT and she suggested that I discontinue hanging out with the 'stinky kids in class' meaning those that do not at first blush to be what sisters call "an asset to the ward"...but you know what, I like those stinky kids....they are smelling pretty rosey to me in comparison at this point. How do I convey to others how precious these new sisters are, as well as their little ones? People are starting to roll thier eyes at me when I say something nice about someone new at church, and I find myself henpecked if I am late because I brought two families to church with me....sure I apologize to my hubby since he is conducting, but why are they worried about whether I get there on time when I have others that need me? I mean sure sometimes it takes me 2 or three trips to get everyone to church in the morning, but isn't it more important that they all get there than whether or not I am sitting down in my seat during the opening hymn? One said this month, "Late again? What's your excuse this time?" As we were both coming in the door at the same time I did not tell her that one little family was not ready on time, I don't think it was any of her business. As the last RS lesson was on setting goals it was a funny point to those around me to bring up being on time as a necessary goal, as it is inconsiderate to others to be late. The two investigators beside me both gasped and looked at me. One apologized like six times for making me late and I just told her that I didn't care about it one bit, and not to worry.

Should I just keep ignoring it, what do I say to these sisters that get offended on both sides?

I just really need a pick me up.

My first thouht was "It sounds like your ward needs a strong "come unto Christ" meeting.

I'm still working on my second thoughts..... tbc

Second Thought:

Posted Image

Now I'm working on repenting and being more charitable. Jayanna you're a saint.

I'll come up with my Third Thoughts .... tbc

Edited by applepansy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This might be a bit juvenile (though not at the egging-the-houses level, which I wouldn't even feel guilty about) but I might write a letter to these women detailing exactly how you feel.

I really do believe most people think of themselves as good. These women think the same, yet probably have a very skewed vision of what they are doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this