Is it "wrong" to wait to have children?


zuko725
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I don't see any of the quotes as declaring a couple should have kids immediately. All I took from them was that a couple should put family as a high priority and not let it be affected by more shallow goals. A couple may not need a lot in order to provide properly for a baby, but they do need something. Also, the price of education today isn't what it used to be. God and the prophets may give us wisdom, but we are not to be commanded in all things.

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How is the Church telling people to have kids before they're ready? No offense to President Monson, but I believe he said so in the last General Conference, in effect. He said that young couples should not delay marrying and starting a family. SO he is saying to have kids before you are responsible enough, mature enough, have 'enough' money, or are able to stay home with your kids (finances again). Women are not breeding machines to bring souls to Earth.

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I should clarify what I said previously....

I LOVE President Monson, I think he is amazing. However, I think the 'general culture' in the church is to pressure young adults to get married and have kids. Maybe it's because those young adults have been waiting for 21-25 years to have any sort of sexuality in their lives, and so the young adults are more than willing to 'jump right in'?

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How is the Church telling people to have kids before they're ready? No offense to President Monson, but I believe he said so in the last General Conference, in effect. He said that young couples should not delay marrying and starting a family. SO he is saying to have kids before you are responsible enough, mature enough, have 'enough' money, or are able to stay home with your kids (finances again). Women are not breeding machines to bring souls to Earth.

No, he didn't. He lamented the fact that many people are waiting far too long to marry and delaying having children for the wrong reasons. He did not say "go out and make lots of babies before you're ready".

Edited by john doe
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Actually, that is precisely what women are -- though you might find a less unflattering way to word it.

I call it as I see it. If you use your wife just as a breed-mare, then I feel sorry for her. Yes, families are blessed to have children, and it's necessary for each soul to come to Earth, for numerous reasons. I just find it ironic how 'medieval' men of the church still treat women. Sure, go to college and get a degree.... then go home and make babies and fix meals for the man of the house.

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Actually, that is precisely what women are -- though you might find a less unflattering way to word it.

We have the sacred privilege and responsibility of bringing spirits into the world, but I'll be darned if that's all I am. For most of us, we only spend about a quarter of our lives at most bearing children. Is the rest of my life just biding time? No. In fact, I've very recently received some clear insight as to the direction my life should go after my little birdies fly the coop. It brought me a tremendous amount of peace to know that there will be something very important for me to do after this phase.

I know what you were going for, Vort, but there was a painful lack of finesse. . .

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I call it as I see it.

Then you see it wrong. Your statement, "Women are not breeding machines to bring souls to Earth," is false. Women are in fact exactly "breeding machines to bring souls to Earth."

I just find it ironic how 'medieval' men of the church still treat women.

I haven't noticed many, or any, men of my acquaintance who are "medieval". Maybe it's just in your area. Or maybe it's just you.

We have the sacred privilege and responsibility of bringing spirits into the world, but I'll be darned if that's all I am.

Well, obviously. Who ever said a single aspect of your being fully defines you?

But that does not change the glorious fact that you and your sisters are, in mactechnm's inelegant wording, "breeding machines to bring souls to Earth."

I know what you were going for, Vort, but there was a painful lack of finesse. . .

How so? mactechnm made a false statement, and I corrected that statement. How does that constitute "a painful lack of finesse"?

Don't blame me for mactechnm's unpleasant phraseology. But his statement was wrong. Are you somehow ashamed of the way God created you? If not, please explain the "painful lack of finesse" that you attribute to my words. (Note: MY words, not mactechnm's.)

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Then you see it wrong. Your statement, "Women are not breeding machines to bring souls to Earth," is false. Women are in fact exactly "breeding machines to bring souls to Earth."

I haven't noticed many, or any, men of my acquaintance who are "medieval". Maybe it's just in your area. Or maybe it's just you.

Well, obviously. Who ever said a single aspect of your being fully defines you?

But that does not change the glorious fact that you and your sisters are, in mactechnm's inelegant wording, "breeding machines to bring souls to Earth."

How so? mactechnm made a false statement, and I corrected that statement. How does that constitute "a painful lack of finesse"?

Don't blame me for mactechnm's unpleasant phraseology. But his statement was wrong. Are you somehow ashamed of the way God created you? If not, please explain the "painful lack of finesse" that you attribute to my words. (Note: MY words, not mactechnm's.)

I usually enjoy your posts Vort, but I have to agree with Eowyn on this. I, too, thought you lacked finesse. I understand that Mactechnm used the wordage "Women are not breeding machines to bring souls to Earth", and you expounded on that by stating that in fact we are "breeding machines...". I guess, what I found hurtful by this, is that I look at you as my brother, someone I admire, and may I say it?--even love. Even though I don't respond too often to posts here, I pretty much read everything that's on the boards. I have developed a love for those who post on these boards. I know I haven't met any of you in person, but I have developed a bond, and I look forward to the day in the next life, if not here, when I have the opportunity to meet many of you in person, give you a hug, and say "Thank you, I admire you, I grew to love you". So, with the feeling of love that I feel for you, when I read your post, that women are indeed breeding machines, I found it to be rather insensitive and hurtful. I ask myself, "Is that the way you would explain womanhood to your own daughter?"--"Honey, that's all you are...a breeding machine to bring souls onto this Earth". From your posts, I don't believe that you would. I get the feeling that you love your daughter and your wife very much and would never speak in such a way to them. And, to understand where I'm coming from, with my heartfelt admiration of you, (and yes, I look up to you as a sister would to a beloved brother), those words struck my soul, as if you were speaking to me directly, and it hurt, because it came from you (even if you were using another's words). I love being a woman. I love the fact that I have been the vessel in which I have been able to bring souls to this Earth. I fully believe that I chose my gender knowing full well what was expected of me. I don't feel you were putting women down, you were in fact, I feel, trying to explain what womanhood is. But, this time, I feel you missed the mark.

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I ask myself, "Is that the way you would explain womanhood to your own daughter?"--"Honey, that's all you are...a breeding machine to bring souls onto this Earth". From your posts, I don't believe that you would.

Which is good, because considering he's not saying that to anyone here it's even less likely he'd say it to his daughter.

Edited by Dravin
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I think this whole concept of being a "breeding machine" may be exactly what causes the contention in different views about family timing and planning. Vort raises an excellent point. We ARE "breeding machines". That is a large and very important part of why we are here on this earth. Of course that is not ALL we are (and please note that Vort never claimed such), but it IS an immensely important part of our divine nature.

We were made to create- whether our creations come out in the form of art, music, technology, scientific advancements, or any other many forms of creation. Creation is a joy. It is the ability to bring soemthing new and wonderful into the world, to alter and shape base materials into something beautiful and splendid. When we create, we give something purpose and design where previously there was only chaos and random chance. Producing offspring is the ultimate creation, the creation of LIFE- a body with a soul and a uniqueness all its own that will grow and develop and advance beyond anything we could teach or dream for ourselves. This ability is something we were GIVEN, and humanity in all his attempts has not been able to develop a more perfect method for the creation of life. That we can be participants in the creation of babies, children, bodies.... is a GIFT that we should cherish beyond anything else we could possibly create.

The world wants to cut this down and make it seem menial, unimportant, unflattering, and demeaning. Because it is a natural part of our design, something that can be done so effortlessly and is done by all other living things, the world would have us think that it is not something to be cherished. This is why so many in the world now delay the formation of families longer than it is needful- because they don't want to just be "baby factories". They want to be MORE. They want to be defined by the other things they do and create, because the creation of children is made out to be unimportant and nothing like an accomplishment. If someone puts their children above their own endeavors, they are looked down upon by the rest of the world, and we are more and more being asked to push the needs of our families aside for "better" things.

The culture of the church tends to go the opposite direction of the world, and many people assume that because we are advised not to delay having children, the church is belittling us or trying to force women into a subserviant role. This is NOT so. Our leaders know that our gender roles and the creation of children are very important and central to our very being, despite what the world may say. The advice to "not wait" is only there to combat the drive of the world to wait and wait and wait, because there are other matters more important (supposedly) than having a family. This does not mean our leaders want us to have children before we are ready and prepared for them, just that we need to get our priorities straight and realize that having children will be the GREATEST accomplishment of our lives, and we should not rank other things more important.

It is not a lowly thing to create children and have a family. It is not a simple or "unaccomplished" thing to reproduce. Of everything we could possibly do with our lives, creating a life far surpasses it all. Because it is so important, we should plan accordingly. We should make sure we are prepared for children, as much as anyone can be prepared, and not having them irresponsibly. We must be first married and capable of providing a stable home. Waiting in order to make such preparations is not a sin- it is responsible. Waiting simply because we want to do other things first, because we won't feel "accomplished" otherwise is what the church is counseling against and what we should be striving to avoid. That is why the decision on the timing and number of children a family should have is a careful one left between a husband, wife, and the Lord.

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I gotta go with Vort--and I'm a female. From a purely biological perspective, that's our objective.

As with most animal species.

Although, the strong emphasis on "bearing children" can be a big slap in the face to women that are infertile. When I was pregnant, there was also a support group for women (largely many of them of religious affiliations) that couldn't get pregnant, and I read a lot of pain through the stories they shared. I understand being a mother isn't our only purpose but it is a priority as far as the church is concerned, and sometimes that can be a painful reality to those unable to concieve. Many of those women felt inadequate and less of a woman because of it.

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As with most animal species.

Although, the strong emphasis on "bearing children" can be a big slap in the face to women that are infertile. When I was pregnant, there was also a support group for women (largely many of them of religious affiliations) that couldn't get pregnant, and I read a lot of pain through the stories they shared. I understand being a mother isn't our only purpose but it is a priority as far as the church is concerned, and sometimes that can be a painful reality to those unable to concieve. Many of those women felt inadequate and less of a woman because of it.

For those who are LDS, the pain should be mitigated by our knowledge and testimony. Just as for those who don't marry in this life, we know that God's plan of happiness will not deny us blessings in the next life. It doesn't make it easier necessarily to live this life, but hope is a powerful thing.

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Wow! I certainly didn't expect this to escalate out of control.

Ok. 1. I apologize to any women I might have offended. Honestly, my point was just that a woman, and her husband, should be able to support a child before having one. That's it. :) and...

2. I DO agree that men and women are here on Earth for certain reasons, we are all here for multiple purposes, one GREAT reason being, to bring souls to Earth for a body and Earthly experience. I guess I just get a little heated, because in our Ward, we are Ward missionaries, and almost all of the missionaries we have had in our area in the last 4 years, we stay in contact with after they return home, and almost all of them have been engaged and married within three months, and I just wonder who, (if anyone) is pressuring them to get married so quickly.

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Wow! I certainly didn't expect this to escalate out of control.

Ok. 1. I apologize to any women I might have offended. Honestly, my point was just that a woman, and her husband, should be able to support a child before having one. That's it. :) and...

2. I DO agree that men and women are here on Earth for certain reasons, we are all here for multiple purposes, one GREAT reason being, to bring souls to Earth for a body and Earthly experience. I guess I just get a little heated, because in our Ward, we are Ward missionaries, and almost all of the missionaries we have had in our area in the last 4 years, we stay in contact with after they return home, and almost all of them have been engaged and married within three months, and I just wonder who, (if anyone) is pressuring them to get married so quickly.

The Spirit? Is that out of the realm of possibility?

I'm just saying that it isn't our place to judge whether someone is getting married too soon, or having children when they aren't ready, or any other things. We do not know the circumstances nor are we privileged to be a part of their preparation and discussion with whomever (parents, friends, bishop, Spirit, God, etc).

The Church has made it clear that such personal decisions are up to the couple with guidance from the Lord. It may be part of the culture of the church to place undue stress on certain aspects, but that doesn't mean that culture is officially supported by "the Church."

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Yes, you are right... The Spirit does play a big role. (In everything in our lives). It just is curious why all our area missionaries, upon returning home, are (it's just my opinion), "jumping into marriage". But you're right, I am not to judge, and I definitely do not know everyone's details or situation. :)

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So, I normally don't post on forums, but I have also been having the "when should I start a family thoughts." (note the 'I' in bold)

It seems there are varying opinions on here. I believe it's between husband, wife, and the Lord. Waiting because of selfish reasons is (to me) inappropriate.

For me, I truly want to start having kids now. Unfortunately, I have hyperemis gravidarem that is always present in pregnancies in my family and I find it wise to taker this as a possibility that I may have it too. I have seen my sister go through three pregnancies-- all of them she was struggling with her life. She was hospitalized through all her pregnancies and when she was pregnant with child 3 the hospital wouldn't let her see her other 2 kids for months because of the swine flu threat. She ended up depressed and up and left the hospital to be with her other kids even though she could barely stand.

If it was just school in my way I probably would have tried for kids sooner...but because my health and the health of my child is at risk I feel I should wait until I can at least pay for all my possible hospital bills so we are not in a large amount of debt.

For me, I feel as if this is a blessing because my husband and I are in full blown saving mode. This is preparing us for the financial challenges we will face once we have kids.

We plan on waiting one more year (till I graduate) and then start trying for a baby. Sometimes I feel like it isn't fair that the woman in my family have such hard pregnancies. I don't want to wait, but I feel it is wise.

I feel like it is unfair for some people in this thread to say that everyone should have children right away. There are many out there with health problems who want to have kids right away but can't. It's already hard enough seeing everyone starting families early and knowing I should wait until I have the money situation and schooling under control.

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So, I normally don't post on forums, but I have also been having the "when should I start a family thoughts." (note the 'I' in bold)

It seems there are varying opinions on here. I believe it's between husband, wife, and the Lord. Waiting because of selfish reasons is (to me) inappropriate.

For me, I truly want to start having kids now. Unfortunately, I have hyperemis gravidarem that is always present in pregnancies in my family and I find it wise to taker this as a possibility that I may have it too. I have seen my sister go through three pregnancies-- all of them she was struggling with her life. She was hospitalized through all her pregnancies and when she was pregnant with child 3 the hospital wouldn't let her see her other 2 kids for months because of the swine flu threat. She ended up depressed and up and left the hospital to be with her other kids even though she could barely stand.

If it was just school in my way I probably would have tried for kids sooner...but because my health and the health of my child is at risk I feel I should wait until I can at least pay for all my possible hospital bills so we are not in a large amount of debt.

For me, I feel as if this is a blessing because my husband and I are in full blown saving mode. This is preparing us for the financial challenges we will face once we have kids.

We plan on waiting one more year (till I graduate) and then start trying for a baby. Sometimes I feel like it isn't fair that the woman in my family have such hard pregnancies. I don't want to wait, but I feel it is wise.

I feel like it is unfair for some people in this thread to say that everyone should have children right away. There are many out there with health problems who want to have kids right away but can't. It's already hard enough seeing everyone starting families early and knowing I should wait until I have the money situation and schooling under control.

It's nice to see that the ability to manage the gray has been passed on to at least some of our young people. Bravo!

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As with most animal species.

Although, the strong emphasis on "bearing children" can be a big slap in the face to women that are infertile. When I was pregnant, there was also a support group for women (largely many of them of religious affiliations) that couldn't get pregnant, and I read a lot of pain through the stories they shared. I understand being a mother isn't our only purpose but it is a priority as far as the church is concerned, and sometimes that can be a painful reality to those unable to concieve. Many of those women felt inadequate and less of a woman because of it.

I had a hard time dealing with the fact that I can't have any children with my hubby...and then I found something in the Latter-Day Saint Woman manual that helped me feel a lot better.

Some women are unable to bear children. Childless women often fulfill the role of mother by adopting children or by taking in foster children. Women who are unable to have children and single women can find fulfillment by working with children in a variety of ways or by doing other things whereby they can give of themselves in service to others. Women who do such work can find joy in it and bring happiness and wholesome influence into the lives of children, especially those who have been denied a mother’s love.

President Brigham Young comforted those childless women who had been faithful to their temple covenants, saying: “Many of the sisters grieve because they are not blessed with offspring. You will see the time when you will have millions of children around you. If you are faithful to your covenants, you will be mothers of nations. … Be faithful, and if you are not blest with children in this time, you will be hereafter” (in Deseret News [Weekly], 28 Nov. 1860, 306).

The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A Lesson 14: The Latter-day Saint Woman

My hubby told me that we could have children later, but I didn't quite get it till I read that.

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  • 1 month later...

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with waiting to have children. Having a baby is an enormous responsibility and it's not a decision to make without thinking and praying about it. I applaud you for thinking logically about this decision because it is SO hard to finish school, especially grad school, with children. I've had about a dozen friends of mine drop out of college because they "just couldn't wait" a couple years to have kids. This is also a decision that needs fasting and praying over as well, but ultimately the decision is purely yours. I fully believe with all my heart that if some couples are in certain situations like trying to get through school, issues with poverty etc, then putting off chidren is smart.

My husband and I have been married for 5-1/2 years and we do not have children. This makes us the oddballs out in church and in our respective families, but not having children any time soon is the best decision for us right now. Like you, we are both working on our degrees and having a child doesn't make any sense.

There are some people who call this selfish, some people who think that if you put off having children then you'll never get around to it. Well don't listen to any of that nonsense. What right do people have dishing out this so called advice? They don't know your lives, they don't know your goals so let this decision always come from you. Good luck!

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Having children isnt so simple anymore. It is outlandishly expensive if you use a regular doctor and hospital. Frankly I dont see how young people manage, although I am glad they do. It used to be that I thought that the expense 'excuse' was just selfish but not anymore providing the couple is not just spending the money on other things that are less important.

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