HoosierGuy Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 What is everyone's opinion of U.S. corporations and very wealthy people who hide their money down in the Cayman Islands or some other country that allows this kind of sneaky behavior? It's really disgusting. Corporations and companies get tax breaks in the U.S., they make their money in the U.S., but instead of paying taxes like the rest of us they hide their profits down in the Cayman Islands. And wealthy people do this too. Very disgusting. The really scary part is that in years past, organized crime used the Cayman Islands to hide their money. Corporations and people who do it now most likely have something to hide along with their money. From an attorney I heard on the radio, last year Europe did a big investigation into tax havens and found most people behind it were corrupt and doing illegal things. It's not that hard to open up a bank account. What drives a corporation or man to hide their money all the way down in the Cayman Islands? I suspect most people who have money down there have made dirty deals in the past with all sorts of bad people, including terrorists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 A few quick google searches makes me an expert: * The Cayman Islands are the 5th-largest banking centre in the world, holding around $1.5 trillion. * In 2005, The IMF released a report about how they're sound and do things appropriately. * An offshore bank holds different appeals for different people/businesses. In addition to the bad naughty folks Hoosier mentions, folks in countries with unpredictable or damaged economies may want stability. Folks in places with bad currency may want a better currency. Global corporations who are not based in the US, will tend to base themselves wherever conditions are most favorable to them. So it appears there are legitimate answers to his question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I say better than letting the schlubbs in DC waste it on gubbmit give aways..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saldrin Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) What is everyone's opinion of U.S. corporations and very wealthy people who hide their money down in the Cayman Islands or some other country that allows this kind of sneaky behavior?Who cares. thats my honest opinion. Edited January 20, 2012 by Saldrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 It is a well-settled matter of law that a person has no legal responsibility to allocate his resources in such a way as to maximize his tax due. He must comply with the tax code, of course (and apparently there's no allegation here that Cayman Islands accounts are illegal per se); but within those parameters he may use any loophole he wishes. The only time tax minimization strategies really bug me, is when they're applied by people who have built their political careers by publicly making smarmy accusations about how conservatives are horrible people because they don't want to pay "their fair share".What drives a person to put capital investments overseas? Partially, the idea of not having all one's eggs in the same national basket; and partially, the need to unite one's capital with that of overseas investors who have unfortunately concluded that the United States of America is no longer a good place to do business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayhawk2421 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 The problem though is that many of these corporations and wealthy individuals have lobbied the government to create tax loopholes through which they reduce their tax liabilities. While I agree that there is no legal or moral responsibility to maximize one's taxes due, there is a moral responsibility not to game the system. If lawmakers decide to create tax loopholes so as to promote investment in certain areas or sectors or to tax advantage certain activities that they deem as beneficial to society that is their pergotative and it is yours to steer your financial decisions to react to those incentives and disincentives. However, once you seek to influence lawmakers to create tax law to benefit you and not to benefit society or the governed as a whole, then you have crossed into the realm of the immoral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 However, once you seek to influence lawmakers to create tax law to benefit you and not to benefit society or the governed as a whole, then you have crossed into the realm of the immoral.I think the majority of lobbyists of any stripe have honestly convinced themselves that their own benefit is to the benefit of society or the governed as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackmarch Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 What is everyone's opinion of U.S. corporations and very wealthy people who hide their money down in the Cayman Islands or some other country that allows this kind of sneaky behavior? It's really disgusting. Corporations and companies get tax breaks in the U.S., they make their money in the U.S., but instead of paying taxes like the rest of us they hide their profits down in the Cayman Islands. And wealthy people do this too. Very disgusting. The really scary part is that in years past, organized crime used the Cayman Islands to hide their money. Corporations and people who do it now most likely have something to hide along with their money. From an attorney I heard on the radio, last year Europe did a big investigation into tax havens and found most people behind it were corrupt and doing illegal things. It's not that hard to open up a bank account. What drives a corporation or man to hide their money all the way down in the Cayman Islands? I suspect most people who have money down there have made dirty deals in the past with all sorts of bad people, including terrorists.I really don't care where they put it. Using loopholes to get out of paying taxes for money earned in the U.S. really irks me tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 The Fair Tax. Read it. Learn it. Elect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenRaines Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I can speak from personal experience. I worked in the financial industry in Cayman Islands for four years. US Tax Code does not prevent someone from placing assets in other countries. US Tax Code only requires that you report, not pay taxes on, but report all income, both domestic and foreign. Investments outside the US you are not required to pay taxes on until those dollars are brought back in to the US. Example: I have 5 million dollars that I have made honestly in the US. I open an account in Cayman Islands, in the name of an offshore corporation. The offshore corporation has as directors another corporation to manage it. The 5 million is deposited there. I invest the money in offshore mutual funds, stocks, property in South America and over time it grows to 10 million dollars. I sell everything and buy a castle in Spain. While the US government requires that I report the income generated there is no tax to be paid on the profits until they are brought back in to the US. During my time in Cayman Islands, the firm I worked for, we did no business with US citizens or residents to avoid any conflict with US Tax Code. Many of our clients came from Canada, South Africa, Asia and Europe with quite a few for Latin America. As someone mentioned earlier there are countries with currency controls, are unstable. Hyper-inflation, etc. that chose to have their assets outside their home country. If you were in Venezuela living there would you want your money in a bank there that Hugo Chavez could nationalize overnight and you would lose everything? I think not. Cayman Islands is not the only tax haven in the world. Isle of Man, Nevis to name a couple of others. Ben Raines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Tax avoidance is different than tax evasion. One is illegal and the other is just being smart and managing the amount of tax you pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbblood Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Tax avoidance is different than tax evasion.One is illegal and the other is just being smart and managing the amount of tax you pay.Just to put that in perspective, anybody that claims tithing as a charitable contribution on their tax return is indeed practicing tax avoidance. You could say the same thing about a laundry list of credits, deductions, and/or processes to reduce your taxable income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierGuy Posted January 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Who cares. thats my honest opinion. That's what people said about the middle east before 9/11, and then look what happened. The thing about the Cayman Islands is that there can be all kinds of people hiding money down there. Mr. American can have money down there but his lock box might be right next to some terrorist from Africa. And who knows, Mr. American might be funneling money to theterrorist, or some other bad person. It's pretty clear people who have money hidden down there or other places are up to no good and have something to hide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Did you not read what anyone posted here about why some have their money out of the country? And for legitimate reasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Did you not read what anyone posted here about why some have their money out of the country? And for legitimate reasons?You're missing the point, which is that MR (stands for "Mormon Running for president") is evil. That is all HoosierGuy was really trying to say.Don't worry, HG. Some of us understand your intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 You're missing the point, which is that MR (stands for "Mormon Running for president") is evil. That is all HoosierGuy was really trying to say.Don't worry, HG. Some of us understand your intent. Whew thanks Vort for clarifying what he meant. Here I was thinking he was saying that anyone that puts their money out of the country is evil and funneling to terrorist activities.Thanks again for clearing that up for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 Whew thanks Vort for clarifying what he meant. Here I was thinking he was saying that anyone that puts their money out of the country is evil and funneling to terrorist activities.Thanks again for clearing that up for me.You betcha. Suggesting that "anyone that puts their money out of the country is evil and funneling to terrorist activities" was not HG's intent, merely a regrettable side effect of what he really meant. Except for the "regrettable" part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I may regret this, however, I regretfully have to admit that I find the regrettable side effect more in tune with his usual thoughts. That in itself is also regrettable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 That's what people said about the middle east before 9/11, and then look what happened. The thing about the Cayman Islands is that there can be all kinds of people hiding money down there. Mr. American can have money down there but his lock box might be right next to some terrorist from Africa. And who knows, Mr. American might be funneling money to theterrorist, or some other bad person. It's pretty clear people who have money hidden down there or other places are up to no good and have something to hide.Or you could just be jumping on this wagon to make a point that has since been shown to be your imagination. I do admire your attempt in trying not to make it seem as though you're deriding a certain political candidate, even though that news came out just a day or so before your rant. Instead you turned it into a rant that anyone who has money in the Caymans is funding terrorists. Try not to believe everything Mr. Cole says, most of it is just recycled garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahone Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 The thing about the Cayman Islands is that there can be all kinds of people hiding money down there. Mr. American can have money down there but his lock box might be right next to some terrorist from Africa. And who knows, Mr. American might be funneling money to theterrorist, or some other bad person. It's pretty clear people who have money hidden down there or other places are up to no good and have something to hide.When Mr America visits Pakistan, he might be up to no good, and training in a terrorist camp. It's pretty clear he has something to hide if he is visiting Pakistan, I mean, he is clearly over there to ensure he can't be watched by US authorities.Or, he might just be over there to visit family/friends. But the chances of that are so small, right, not even worth considering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Shucks. And here I thought we were trying to talk about real Tax Reform. I should've known it's just another one of those ignorant political bashing... Okay, time wasted. Moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annewandering Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Dang and there really is an issue with the tax 'avoidance'. Is it right to avoid taxes by moving them out of country? I can understand a person doing it but it just seems wrong. Of course it is all related back to whether loopholes are a good thing or just a way of getting out of paying honest taxes. It doesnt have to have anything to do with candidates and their honesty. If its legal its not dishonest but perhaps some laws need to be adjusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I may regret this, however, I regretfully have to admit that I find the regrettable side effect more in tune with his usual thoughts. That in itself is also regrettable.I think I need to sit down and think that one through for a minute, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think I need to sit down and think that one through for a minute, I wrote it and regretfully, I'm not sure I even understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierGuy Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Did you not read what anyone posted here about why some have their money out of the country? And for legitimate reasons? I'll take the word of attorney and good guy Mike Papantonio over others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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