Tattoos and the Church

[Traveler]

Alright I have a question for tattoo experts. How come colored people don't get "white" tattoos?

The Traveler

[Bini]

Alright I have a question for tattoo experts. How come colored people don't get "white" tattoos?

The Traveler

There are different inks. Some ink colours are more harmful or put you at higher health risk than others.

[Bini]

I don't have an issue with tattoos, body piercing or cosmetic surgery. I just don't. But it's important to remember that whatever we do, there are consequences, some we can live with and others we find it harder to forgive ourselves. The Lord has told us what we shouldn't do and the prophets reiterate. The Lord didn't come up with this stuff to annoy us, everything He wants for us is for the greater good and our overall happiness, even if at the time we don't see it.

[pam]

Well said Bini.

[Matthew0059]

Add Leviticus 19:28 as a specific commandment to why you should not.

"Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the Lord."

jiujitsu47, you should not compare yourself to others and say 'I am more righteous, because I follow more commandments'- for all are gone astray, until they are brought to the feet of the Redeemer. The fact that many Mormons reject the basic commandments with great abandon only serves to bind them down in condemnation- that fact does not justify any rebellious action you may commit.

If you really want to know why we are counseled against tattoos, hold out in faith and don't get whatever tattoo you're tempted to get right now. Pray and fast for understanding. If you will do this faithfully with an eye towards Christ, I promise you in the name of the Savior that you will learn, for yourself, why tattoos are unsightly in the eyes of God.

Your body is your tabernacle that the Lord God has given you. How you treat it directly attests to how you feel about the Lord and His mercies.

God bless.

[Snow]

Basically, does anyone have a good answer as to why we aren't suppose to get any tattoos?

Two reasons.

1. The Church is very image conscious. It doesn't want it's public face to be a bunch of pierced, tatted up grangers.

2. The Church want to control you. It controls you overall by trying to control your diet, your sexual practices, your clothing, your entertainment and your leisure time.

[jerome1232]

Add Leviticus 19:28 as a specific commandment to why you should not.

Wouldn't that be a part of mosaic law and therefore void?

[Matthew0059]

Wouldn't that be a part of mosaic law and therefore void?

Part of the Mosaic Law? Yes, and "void" inasmuch as it is no longer authoritative.

However, every whit of the Mosaic Law was based on eternal truth- remember that it was a schoolmaster to bring the House of Israel to Christ. You will not find a single part of the Mosaic Law that, when properly understood, does not reflect the eternal nature of God's law.

I quoted it as an example of more than one witness- one found long before modern tattooing became popular. We have a modern witness as to why you should not, and an ancient commandment forbidding it. We can begin to see a pattern forming here: in all Gospel dispensations it has been at most forbidden, and at the least strongly discouraged. Notice that the Amlicites "marked" themselves as tokens of rebellion against the Nephites (Alma 3:18), and prophetic insight shows that such an action was the result of a curse coming upon the Amlicites.

Cheers!

Edited January 21, 2012 by Matthew0059

[annewandering]

Two reasons.

1. The Church is very image conscious. It doesn't want it's public face to be a bunch of pierced, tatted up grangers.

2. The Church want to control you. It controls you overall by trying to control your diet, your sexual practices, your clothing, your entertainment and your leisure time.

lol sure.

[Carl62]

Pres. Hinckley said this:

"I recently spoke to your mothers and your fathers. Among other things, I talked with them about tattoos.

What creation is more magnificent than the human body? What a wondrous thing it is as the crowning work of the Almighty.

Paul, in writing to the Corinthians, said: “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1 Cor. 3:16–17).

Did you ever think that your body is holy? You are a child of God. Your body is His creation. Would you disfigure that creation with portrayals of people, animals, and words painted into your skin?

I promise you that the time will come, if you have tattoos, that you will regret your actions. They cannot be washed off. They are permanent. Only by an expensive and painful process can they be removed. If you are tattooed, then probably for the remainder of your life you will carry it with you. I believe the time will come when it will be an embarrassment to you. Avoid it. We, as your Brethren who love you, plead with you not to become so disrespectful of the body which the Lord has given you.

May I mention earrings and rings placed in other parts of the body. These are not manly. They are not attractive. You young men look better without them, and I believe you will feel better without them. As for the young women, you do not need to drape rings up and down your ears. One modest pair of earrings is sufficient.

Is this considered as council or an actual commandment? Is this looked on as inspired or as an opinion? It gets confusing for a lot of LDS as to what's doctrine and what's merely advice. Do we take the things we like to hear from our leaders and call them doctrine and the things we don't like and say 'that's just opinion'? Is this something we are to pray over for our own selves or is this etched in stone for everybody? Still scratchin' my head over all this.

[jerome1232]

Part of the Mosaic Law? Yes, and "void" inasmuch as it is no longer authoritative.

However, every whit of the Mosaic Law was based on eternal truth- remember that it was a schoolmaster to bring the House of Israel to Christ. You will not find a single part of the Mosaic Law that, when properly understood, does not reflect the eternal nature of God's law.

I quoted it as an example of more than one witness- one found long before modern tattooing became popular. We have a modern witness as to why you should not, and an ancient commandment forbidding it. We can begin to see a pattern forming here: in all Gospel dispensations it has been at most forbidden, and at the least strongly discouraged. Notice that the Amlicites "marked" themselves as tokens of rebellion against the Nephites (Alma 3:18), and prophetic insight shows that such an action was the result of a curse coming upon the Amlicites.

Cheers!

When you put it the context in which you intended it, I can agree with you. Perhaps "void" was the wrong word for me to use, but I think you understood what I meant.

[theoriginalavatar]

I have tattoos...7 to be exact...

Do I regret having gotten them? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

I have always been a bit of a rebel. I am laughing at having said that, because many people you ask who know me would say that simply isn't true. I don't act the rebel.

The rebellion of which I speak, however, is the spiritual kind. I have never taken things at face value. I fight with God to know the truth. I kick and I scream and I gnash my terrible teeth and I roll my terrible eyes every time God asks something of me.

It's because I want to know. I want to know with all my heart.

Matters of faith have never come easily to me. But when I KNOW them to be true after the struggle...trust me, I KNOW them to be true.

I grew up Catholic and went to an all LDS high school. I wanted to be a priest. I, like Joseph Smith (and trust me, that's where the likeness ends), wanted to know the truth of what I observed in the world around me. I wanted to know if God existed and, if so, what did he want me to do. I made no assumptions and I had no expectations. I never have, and I doubt I ever will.

What does this have to do with tattoos? I rebelled against the truth that was becoming clear to me. I fought against what I knew, deep down inside, was true but didn't want to believe.

Will I ever have my tattoos removed? Probably not. They are a reminder to me of the power of rebellion. Do tattoos preclude someone from Celestial glory? It is only my opinion, but I doubt it. There are more important issues.

I am not ashamed of my faith, and I am certainly not ashamed of my doubt.

Edited January 23, 2012 by theoriginalavatar

[jayanna]

Is this considered as council or an actual commandment? Is this looked on as inspired or as an opinion? It gets confusing for a lot of LDS as to what's doctrine and what's merely advice. Do we take the things we like to hear from our leaders and call them doctrine and the things we don't like and say 'that's just opinion'? Is this something we are to pray over for our own selves or is this etched in stone for everybody? Still scratchin' my head over all this.

Well, if you will click the link, you will see that it was a conference address.

A Talk given by the Prophet in Conference, not doctrine? Well, ponder it and pray about it, that's all I can say.

[Matthew0059]

I have tattoos...7 to be exact...

Do I regret having gotten them? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

I have always been a bit of a rebel. I am laughing at having said that, because many people you ask who know me would say that simply isn't true. I don't act the rebel.

The rebellion of which I speak, however, is the spiritual kind. I have never taken things at face value. I fight with God to know the truth. I kick and I scream and I gnash my terrible teeth and I roll my terrible eyes every time God asks something of me.

It's because I want to know. I want to know with all my heart.

Matters of faith have never come easily to me. But when I KNOW them to be true after the struggle...trust me, I KNOW them to be true.

I grew up Catholic and went to an all LDS high school. I wanted to be a priest. I, like Joseph Smith (and trust me, that's where the likeness ends), wanted to know the truth of what I observed in the world around me. I wanted to know if God existed and, if so, what did he want me to do. I made no assumptions and I had no expectations. I never have, and I doubt I ever will.

What does this have to do with tattoos? I rebelled against the truth that was becoming clear to me. I fought against what I knew, deep down inside, was true but didn't want to believe.

Will I ever have my tattoos removed? Probably not. They are a reminder to me of the power of rebellion. Do tattoos preclude someone from Celestial glory? It is only my opinion, but I doubt it. There are more important issues.

I am not ashamed of my faith, and I am certainly not ashamed of my doubt.

Thank you for your story, TOA.

Father Murphy ftw.

[theoriginalavatar]

Well, if you will click the link, you will see that it was a conference address.

A Talk given by the Prophet in Conference, not doctrine? Well, ponder it and pray about it, that's all I can say.

With all due respect, jayanna (and I say this because I respect you greatly and I love your enthusiasm for the Gospel!), just because someone makes a statement in general conference, even if that someone is the prophet, does not make it doctrine.

Quite often every word uttered at general conference becomes normative, when, in fact, it is homiletical at best. There are established criteria for what is or is not cannonized.

I do not wish to derail this thread, so I will create a new one dealing with this, but I think that you hint at a huge issue the Church is facing today. In fact, I gave a talk on this very subject (what is or is not doctrine) a few weeks ago in sacrament meeting.

Please know that I mean you no disrespect, and I am not saying that we should NOT follow what is advised in general conference, but I think we should be careful to note what is docrine and what is not. This is so critical if we are to converse with members of other faiths.

[jayanna]

Thanks, original, I am looking up the meaning of homiletical right now :/

But please click on the link, as you will see it is not just a comment made at conference, it is the topic of the entire talk.

Though, I would like to also say, that when I see someone with a tattoo, no matter what calling or if I have never seen them before, I never think to myself,,"Now there is someone who is not obedient to the gospel." I never ever do that. I hate that actually, you cannot tell by looking at someone whethere or not they are on the path back to their Heavenly Father or not. I think it is very important that those that are reading this understand, we cannot look at someone and tell if they are working towards who the Lord wants them to be or not. We may look at someone and see all of the things we might expect from a righteous man of God, when actually, he is committing terrible sins to himself and others when no one is looking...and other times we can see someone smoking even, and they are currently living the gospel as much as they know it so far. Maybe they don't know about the Word of Wisdom yet, maybe they are wrestling with some other improvement right now, maybe they are preparing to quit but not there yet...we don't know.

I was just responding to the OP's initial inquiry about it being from a prophet. Yes it is. I gave a link that is a really good one for this particular issue.

I would also like to say, that when a prophet of the Lord gives us counsel, I think it is a good idea to listen, especially when it is endorsed by the entire quorum of the twelve as this one was.

Oh, and thank you for the compliments, original! I like you too!

Edited January 23, 2012 by jayanna

[theoriginalavatar]

Thanks, original, I am looking up the meaning of homiletical right now :/

But please click on the link, as you will see it is not just a comment made at conference, it is the topic of the entire talk.

Though, I would like to also say, that when I see someone with a tattoo, no matter what calling or if I have never seen them before, I never think to myself,,"Now there is someone who is not obedient to the gospel." I never ever do that. I hate that actually, you cannot tell by looking at someone whethere or not they are on the path back to their Heavenly Father or not. I think it is very important that those that are reading this understand, we cannot look at someone and tell if they are working towards who the Lord wants them to be or not. We may look at someone and see all of the things we might expect from a righteous man of God, when actually, he is committing terrible sins to himself and others when no one is looking...and other times we can see someone smoking even, and they are currently living the gospel as much as they know it so far. Maybe they don't know about the Word of Wisdom yet, maybe they are wrestling with some other improvement right now, maybe they are preparing to quit but not there yet...we don't know.

I was just responding to the OP's initial inquiry about it being from a prophet. Yes it is. I gave a link that is a really good one for this particular issue.

I would also like to say, that when a prophet of the Lord gives us counsel, I think it is a good idea to listen, especially when it is endorsed by the entire quorum of the twelve as this one was.

Hi jayanna, I know you were responding. The larger issue of what is and is not cannonized doctrine has been very much on my mind of late, and I take exception to anything that detracts from this.

My humble apologies. I haven't read many of your posts, but those I have read have left me delighted at your enthusiasm! You have a great spirit about you, and I enjoy your comments.

I agree with you when you say that, when a prophet of the Lord gives us counsel, we do well to listen! How true that is.

[Seminarysnoozer]

???

Body building is a natural look for strengthened muscles. The bigger the muscle, the more capacity for applying force.

So, what do you think is the "body shape" that God "designed"? The look you get when you're not doing anything but sitting infront of the TV eating 14 slices of pizza? Or the look you get when you eat only 500 calories a day?

And, by the way, we don't get tattoos because it hurts. We don't get tattoos because we were adviced against it in the same token that we are adviced to go to church every Sunday.

Body building and regular exercise are not the same thing. I exercise 6 days a week for health reasons. My husband has friends that have competed in body building contests, that is what I am talking about. There is a certain look that is the goal. And knowing those people that compete in those events the goal is to change appearance. It is also a 24 hour passion of those that take it seriously. It becomes the 'golden idol' for many of those people (not all of course).

The point of the question was to ask about a number of other activities that people do with the intent of changing appearance.

To answer your question, I would love to know what the body that God designed looked like but I will have to wait for that. That will be interesting to see and have some day.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Oh, one thing i wanted to comment more, is for people going under the knife. There are many different opinions about when its okay, and when it is not. But i do not think there's anything wrong in doing so if the change you want made is a real physical or psychological problem for you.

I think there were a good thread about it in the forum once, but i don't remember in which category it was though.

Exactly, that is why I brought that up. I think tattoos are in the same category of plastic surgery.

It might even be in the same category as any kind of body adornment, jewelry, tanning, hair coloring, make up, etc.

What, morally, is the difference between a tattoo and make up? ... without the argument of permanency, what's the difference?

[john doe]

Well if it makes you feel any better, I don't wear makeup anymore, and the only jewelry I wear is a watch when I'm not at work. No tanning either, as my pasty-white skin will attest to.

[Seminarysnoozer]

Well if it makes you feel any better, I don't wear makeup anymore, and the only jewelry I wear is a watch when I'm not at work. No tanning either, as my pasty-white skin will attest to.

Haha! I think that is an interesting discussion as there are some in the church, including members of my family that feel strongly about these things. I hate to say it this way but some may even take it to the extremes of presenting themselves like those in fundamentalist LDS faiths.

From what I see, I think most would say there is a balance. There is some measure of presenting oneself but not to the point of 'loving oneself' to the point of prideful thoughts.

As was posted, women putting one set of piercing in the ears is okay, etc.

I see one of the dangers of tattoo'ing as that, a prideful statement. My friends that have gotten tattoos explain that it is a statement of individuality, something to set them apart from others. To me, that seems like the most dangerous aspect of it, similar to the possible reasons for people getting plastic surgery or wearing extravagant clothes or jewelry, etc. Anything that would promote that drive for individuality as an external measure of uniqueness has the risk for prideful thoughts. Like Jesus not wanting to cast himself off the temple in front of the crowd, we, in our small ways, are not supposed to want to call attention to ourselves.

[Snow]

Do tatoos preclude you from taking the sacrament?

Do tatoos keep you out of the temple?

Do tatoos keep you out of the celestial kingdom?

No

No, and

No.

[Matthew0059]

Do tatoos preclude you from taking the sacrament?

Do tatoos keep you out of the temple?

Do tatoos keep you out of the celestial kingdom?

No

No, and

No.

Rebellion will keep someone from all those things, though. If someone hasn't received the "light and truth" associated with understanding why tattoos are against God's design for the body, they can't be condemned for getting a tattoo (where there is no law, there is no condemnation). However, if they have received that "light and truth", and choose to rebel against that knowledge and get a tattoo anyway, that rebellion will keep them from all those things until they humble themselves and repent.

Getting tattoos isn't "worse" than many of the other sins- they just leave a visible, lasting mark upon our bodies; physical reminders on our skin of mistakes made either in rebellion or ignorance. Most sins don't have that effect.

BTW... You won't find a Celestial human body with tattoos. Anyone who receives a perfected Celestial body will have any tattoos they may have gotten in life removed during the perfection process.

[Snow]

Rebellion will keep someone from all those things, though. If someone hasn't received the "light and truth" associated with understanding why tattoos are against God's design for the body, they can't be condemned for getting a tattoo (where there is no law, there is no condemnation). However, if they have received that "light and truth", and choose to rebel against that knowledge and get a tattoo anyway, that rebellion will keep them from all those things until they humble themselves and repent.

Getting tattoos isn't "worse" than many of the other sins- they just leave a visible, lasting mark upon our bodies; physical reminders on our skin of mistakes made either in rebellion or ignorance. Most sins don't have that effect.

Rebellion? Sin? Get serious. It isn't a question of morality. It's a matter of public image. The Church wants it's members to present a squeaky clean image. It's like the Church's stance on piercings. It advises against piercings unless it is single piercings on each ears from women, in which case it doesn't take a position... obviously not a moral issue.

BTW... You won't find a Celestial human body with tattoos. Anyone who receives a perfected Celestial body will have any tattoos they may have gotten in life removed during the perfection process.

Got any proof - other than that's what you believe?

[Backroads]

The thing is, I don't think many active and faithful members who get tattoos do so in the process of "I'm going to rebel and get a tattoo and show the Church who's boss! Yeah, man, yeah! :evilbanana:" then go get said tattoo and continue to actively, faithfully, and happily participate in the Church.

Oh, I'm sure they might realize the Church does frown on them but often there is some stronger thought than pure rebellion going on in their minds. Perhaps a desire for meaningful art on them, an expression of individuality--which I don't necessarily see as "rebellious." I'm not condoning tattoos here, I'm just saying it's probably not the hellfire you might think it is.

Yes, you have those people who do go through phases of rebellion against the Church before returning to it, tattooed. But those people will usually do more than simply get a tattoo.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Backroads