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TimP

Maintaining faith and incorrect Bible translation

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This is really two questions in one thread, but I feel they belong together. Could you maintain your faith in Mormon doctrines using only the Holy Bible? Also, what exactly in the Holy Bible is considered to be incorrectly translated?

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My faith is in Jesus Christ. I could continue in my faith with only the Bible or without any scripture at all if necessary as I have the Gift of the Holy Spirit. That said, having the Bible only is like watching TV in black and white....the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price are like having color TV.

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According to the Holy Bible your faith in Jesus Christ is misplaced into a figment of Joseph Smith’s and his followers imaginations. The name of God and Jesus Christ have been plagiarized and attached to imaginary characters.

There is nothing at all in the Bible that indicates spirit children being procreated in heaven and sent to Earth ignorant of their spiritual existence to become good Mormons while living the right way on earth. This is a duplication of Hindu beliefs in reincarnation.

Were it not for Mormon documentation only, you would have no knowledge of those doctrines. Lucifer used Joseph Smith and his followers to delude the minds and spirits of truly good people. He uses his tricks, such as a ‘burning in the bosom’ to make you believe his lies. He does after all have power over the earth.

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So Tim, why would Satan go to all the trouble? I mean, it is way easier to entice someone to become a porn addict or a thief or whatever than it is to convince them to become a Mormon.

Think about it for a moment....Why would Satan trick you into, being chaste, honest, charitable, sober, seeking to do good and serve God with all of your understanding and ability? Why would he want you to even hope to become similar to the Savior?

You need to rethink your logic...it is highly flawed.

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According to the Holy Bible your faith in Jesus Christ is misplaced into a figment of Joseph Smith’s and his followers imaginations. The name of God and Jesus Christ have been plagiarized and attached to imaginary characters.

There is nothing at all in the Bible that indicates spirit children being procreated in heaven and sent to Earth ignorant of their spiritual existence to become good Mormons while living the right way on earth. This is a duplication of Hindu beliefs in reincarnation.

Were it not for Mormon documentation only, you would have no knowledge of those doctrines. Lucifer used Joseph Smith and his followers to delude the minds and spirits of truly good people. He uses his tricks, such as a ‘burning in the bosom’ to make you believe his lies. He does after all have power over the earth.

Like poor Cleophas on the road to Emmaus?

Luke 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

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According to the Holy Bible your faith in Jesus Christ is misplaced into a figment of Joseph Smith’s and his followers imaginations. The name of God and Jesus Christ have been plagiarized and attached to imaginary characters.

Where in the Bible does it say that? Chapter and verse would be nice.

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Were it not for Mormon documentation only, you would have no knowledge of those doctrines. Lucifer used Joseph Smith and his followers to delude the minds and spirits of truly good people. He uses his tricks, such as a ‘burning in the bosom’ to make you believe his lies. He does after all have power over the earth.

Ah, but you originally said "maintain", not "re-create from scratch" or "create a theologically bulletproof argument in defense of". Of course you couldn't re-create Mormonism from solely the Bible; anymore than you can re-create modern (or even primitive) Christianity from solely the Torah (or the entire Old Testament, for that matter).

I'll leave the discussion of the Bible's translation issues for others (though I will briefly concede that the translation--especially of the New Testament--is all-in-all better than many Mormons will give it credit for; but that shouldn't be considered as any kind of warrant of completeness).

But regarding your attacks on the Holy Ghost, you might want to consider whether Galatians 5:22-23 is also a Satanic trick, whether Peter's belief in Jesus as the Son of God (Matthew 16:17) was a hellish delusion, and how early Christianity could make any converts given that the Bible as we know it didn't exist yet and the majority of the early Saints were very probably illiterate. Modern secularism ought to remind you that "reason" and "logic" (not to mention the written word) are at least as susceptible to devilish manipulation as a direct witness from God Himself.

Critics can try to cram God back into the conveniently soundproof box they've created for him. Mormons, meanwhile, will continue to seek revelation and let God be God.

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Not flawed at all. The first lie Satan told to Eve was she would become like God is she ate the forbidden fruit. He has been deluding people throughout history. Weak Christians who fall into cults, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Hindus, Buddhists, all other false, panthistic religions. He will do anything he can to lead people away from the true God. What easier way than to subtly twist the truth to make you think you are really a Christian worshiping God when you are worshiping a fairy tale. It would be easier for him to do that than to lure you into a totally insane line of thinking. Think of whom you are dealing with. Satan is ultimately evil and his single purpose is to cause people to fall away from the true God of the Bible, the creator and sustainer of the universe and His son, Jesus Christ ONLY through whom do we receive forgiveness of our sins and the free gift of salvation. No rules, no working out our salvation, just worshiping God through Christ and loving others.

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Not flawed at all. The first lie Satan told to Eve was she would become like God is she ate the forbidden fruit. He has been deluding people throughout history. Weak Christians who fall into cults, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Hindus, Buddhists, all other false, panthistic religions. He will do anything he can to lead people away from the true God. What easier way than to subtly twist the truth to make you think you are really a Christian worshiping God when you are worshiping a fairy tale. It would be easier for him to do that than to lure you into a totally insane line of thinking. Think of whom you are dealing with. Satan is ultimately evil and his single purpose is to cause people to fall away from the true God of the Bible, the creator and sustainer of the universe and His son, Jesus Christ ONLY through whom do we receive forgiveness of our sins and the free gift of salvation. No rules, no working out our salvation, just worshiping God through Christ and loving others.

Okay Tim. Seems like you got it all figured out.

Just one question... how do you know that YOU aren't the one getting deceived? Just curious...

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No rules, no working out our salvation, just worshiping God through Christ and loving others.

Worship sounds a bit like....work and oh, so does loving others. Maybe you have been deluded like the Mormons? Oh and it sounds like you don't even need the Bible either?

But just in case, what of those souls that never had a Bible? How do they gain salvation Tim? What about those who were destroyed in the flood? No salvation?

Edited by bytor2112

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No rules, no working out our salvation . . .

Wouldn't the requirements that I accept your (presumably trinitarian) view of God and your (presumably sola scriptura) view of the Bible (both of which have only tenuous, if any, Biblical foundation) constitute "rules"? Just curious.

The irony here is that you and many of your co-religionists seem to have convinced yourselves that God will pardon inveterate adulterers, liars, thieves, murderers, ad nauseum while condemning us Mormons to eternal suffering because we won't buy into ideas that Christianity itself took a couple of centuries to embrace. And somehow, in your universe, this capricious being is Biblical, loving, and fundamentally just.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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According to the Holy Bible your faith in Jesus Christ is misplaced into a figment of Joseph Smith’s and his followers imaginations. The name of God and Jesus Christ have been plagiarized and attached to imaginary characters.

My guess is that you are just a clumsy troll but I'll play along.

1. Please quote the parts of the bible that demonstrate my faith in Jesus Christ is misplaced into a figment of Joseph Smith.

2. Could you please just use words whose meanings you understand?

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@Jenamarie, Satan can mimic many things God does except save you. He will do anything he can to turn you from worshiping the true God.

True! Ohmigosh. Are you saying he's deceived you? You better work on repenting, then.

We appreciate your humility in this, TimP, and working out your salvation with fear and trembling and confessing your own fears in not being saved due to Satan's machinations show the fruits of your spirit. 'By their fruits you shall know them', and your fruits are apparent.

We appreciate all you've said, Tim, and the admission you've made that you have been deceived. We wish you luck in your search for salvation.

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@Snow: Sorry, I'm not a 'clumsy troll' as you so nicely call me. And I am dead serious in caring for your spiritual well being dispite the fact you are obviously steeped in the lies you have been taught. Rather than look at something and research it as the Bible directs, you clearly take the low road and spout only what you are told to believe. God does not want ignorant robots. He wants those who are committed to Him and seek the true path He has given us in His Holy Word.

And BTW, I do quite well at understanding the words I use. Nice cut from someone who is supposed to be so highly moral...apparently only until your thin skin gets scratched.

My questions are sincere and not meant as an attack. I genuinely care.

And my proof text, which is never accepted by most LDS members is:

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8, 9

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@FunkyTown: It takes a truly great mind to come up with a retort like that. I remember something like that from my elementary school days. You're dumb. No you're dumber. No you're dumber than I am. etc. etc.

The idea here is to be an adult and have an adult conversation. I know it raises the hair on the back of folk's necks to be told something they sincerely believe is a lie they have been taught all their lives.

Do you think I get some kind of fiendish elation out of telling people they are on the wrong path according to the Holy Bible?

But I do know what God has laid on my heart and I am very sincere in passing my love for God and the truth as I clearly read, study, and understand it along to all others.

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Very true, Tim. And again, we appreciate your humility in this. Admitting that you don't follow the Nicene Creed because it's not the gospel you were given.

That's brave words for a non-LDS member - Admitting they can't follow the Nicene Creed because it's non-biblical. I applaud your courage, since you obviously aren't trolling and are, as Isaiah admonished, wanting to 'Come, let us reason together'.

TimP? As a brother in Christ, I wish you nothing but the best. As long as you are humble and truly seeking Christ, you will find him. Don't be concerned so much about your failings, of which there are many. We don't need to hear about them, because all your sins - Though they be as scarlet - Shall be white as snow.

God does not want ignorant robots. He wants those who are committed to Him and seek the true path He has given us in His Holy Word.

And BTW, I do quite well at understanding the words I use. And my proof text, which is never accepted by most LDS members is:

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8, 9

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Oh, Tim. I forgive you for your ignorance and love you, anyway.

@FunkyTown: It takes a truly great mind to come up with a retort like that. I remember something like that from my elementary school days. You're dumb. No you're dumber. No you're dumber than I am. etc. etc.

The idea here is to be an adult and have an adult conversation. I know it raises the hair on the back of folk's necks to be told something they sincerely believe is a lie they have been taught all their lives.

Do you think I get some kind of fiendish elation out of telling people they are on the wrong path according to the Holy Bible?

But I do know what God has laid on my heart and I am very sincere in passing my love for God and the truth as I clearly read, study, and understand it along to all others.

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"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8, 9

You seem to have missed the rest of the chapter:

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. [Emphasis added]

Do you think I get some kind of fiendish elation out of telling people they are on the wrong path according to the Holy Bible?

Do you?

Because your utter rejection of the a God who reveals Himself directly to the supplicant, your assertion that God is unconcerned with sinful behavior, and your attempts to set yourself up as the final arbiter of what is "Biblical", trigger an awful lot of red flags to us.

Look, we get that it's possible for Satan to try to imitate the channels of revelation. But it is also abundantly clear to us that there are true revelations, and that we ought to seek for those revelations (see, e.g., James 1:5). If you want to start distinguishing the difference between true and false revelations, let's talk. But if you're going to keep trying to muzzle God, then we have nothing to discuss.

Because by trying to turn God's children away from seeking Him directly and setting yourself up as the final interpreter of God's revealed word, it is you who are seeking become like God and usurp the prerogatives of the Most High.

Something to think about.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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@FunkyTown: It takes a truly great mind to come up with a retort like that. I remember something like that from my elementary school days. You're dumb. No you're dumber. No you're dumber than I am. etc. etc.

The idea here is to be an adult and have an adult conversation. I know it raises the hair on the back of folk's necks to be told something they sincerely believe is a lie they have been taught all their lives.

Do you think I get some kind of fiendish elation out of telling people they are on the wrong path according to the Holy Bible?

But I do know what God has laid on my heart and I am very sincere in passing my love for God and the truth as I clearly read, study, and understand it along to all others.

Tim,

You are not honest. When you joined this site, you agreed to abide by the rules, including #1:

Do not post, upload, or otherwise submit anything to the site that is derogatory towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its teachers, or its leaders.

Whatever you think of the nobility of your "mission" here, you are lying. You are failing to uphold your promise. This is not the action of a disciple of Jesus Christ -- at least, not of the Christ I worship.

Perhaps you worship a different Jesus, one that encourages dishonesty.

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