I read something and its giving me anxiety


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Im reading a book called My Peace I give unto you.Its about a girl who dies and comes back and the veil is lifted. In her house she sees a man that use to live there and he never made it to the spirit world when he died.He never wanted to leave earth and is stuck here.Can this really happen?? Ive never heard this taught in the gospel. This book is about an LDS family. Gives me great anxiety knowing I might not even make it to the spirit world and that I will be stuck in between worlds. Has anyone else read this book?

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Gives me great anxiety knowing I might not even make it to the spirit world and that I will be stuck in between worlds. Has anyone else read this book?

Getting "stuck" in this world is not taught in official doctrine even if it sounds thought provoking.

There are some who believe all kinds of things and others who will share their personal experiences where they have come into contact with spirits of the dearly departed and have their own personal beliefs. Some may believe a spirit can get "stuck" perhaps, others may say that only a person who chooses to remain will linger (IMO a disobedient spirit even if otherwise easy to get along with). I tend to believe the latter based on my experiences, but even this is not taught in doctrine.

I have never heard or read anthing official in conference talks that indicates getting stuck in this world is a doctrine. Nor do I believe this is possible if I understand what you are describing and if that's what the author is really saying. Generally, people write books, and they are in the business to make money by selling these books and they are under no obligation to maintain doctrinal standards, even if the book is supposed to be based on a true story. Perhaps at best, all the author can do is relate what they think has occured. I havn't read the book nor am I trying to diss the book, but you might think about putting it aside considering the concerns it is generating... or, ... not.

Just a thought. ^_^

After looking at it online, it sounds like a good read though.

Edited by Magen_Avot
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I think this is in the same vein as the Saturday Warrior. I didn't think that we were already organized as families in the pre-mortal world as portrayed in the musical.

I usually don't take any fiction book as doctrinal even if written by LDS writers. I mean, come on... vampires don't sparkle! :)

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I think this is in the same vein as the Saturday Warrior. I didn't think that we were already organized as families in the pre-mortal world as portrayed in the musical.

Actually, while I don't look to Saturday's Warrior for doctrinal insight, I absolutely believe -- "assume" is probably a better word -- that we lived in family units premortally. That is the unit we live in and are supposed to establish now, and it will be the unit we are a part of for all eternity. I see no reason to believe that we were not similarly organized in our premortal existence(s).

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Im reading a book called My Peace I give unto you.Its about a girl who dies and comes back and the veil is lifted. In her house she sees a man that use to live there and he never made it to the spirit world when he died.He never wanted to leave earth and is stuck here.Can this really happen?? Ive never heard this taught in the gospel. This book is about an LDS family. Gives me great anxiety knowing I might not even make it to the spirit world and that I will be stuck in between worlds. Has anyone else read this book?

The short answer is: No, it cannot happen. By definition, the spirit world is the abode of the spirits of the departed.

It is the case that the spirits of the deceased are in an "imprisoned" state, and that superior understanding and acceptance of covenants can in some sense release them from "prison".

Not sure exactly what all this means, but the good news is that each of us will find out by personal experience soon enough. :)

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The problem I see with that story is this... how does she know whether that spirit was speaking the truth? Did she test the spirit?

Could it not just have easily and a lot more plausibly been an evil adversarial spirit seeking to deceive her? Considering we're taught that when men die they all go to the Spirit World, I can definitely see it as part of Satan's plan to try and convince people that it works contrary to the way portrayed so as to distill a 'sympathy' with such 'lost' souls so as to try and lead people to 'help them'.

After all, if due to your lifestyle here, you are judged as needing to be in spirit prison, do you think it either orderly or logical that they could simply decide to stay?

I expect that had she commanded the spirit in the name of Christ to identify their master they would have declared Satan thus dispelling the matter.

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Im reading a book called My Peace I give unto you.Its about a girl who dies and comes back and the veil is lifted. In her house she sees a man that use to live there and he never made it to the spirit world when he died.He never wanted to leave earth and is stuck here.Can this really happen?? Ive never heard this taught in the gospel. This book is about an LDS family. Gives me great anxiety knowing I might not even make it to the spirit world and that I will be stuck in between worlds. Has anyone else read this book?

If god is omnipotent, and is just as he says, then no everyone will go to a place prepared for them.... Now whether that is on earth or not i dont know. But if somene seeks christ, and his peace, and is repentant then i dont see how someone could be missed and cut off from him.

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Im reading a book called My Peace I give unto you.Its about a girl who dies and comes back and the veil is lifted. In her house she sees a man that use to live there and he never made it to the spirit world when he died.He never wanted to leave earth and is stuck here.Can this really happen?? Ive never heard this taught in the gospel. This book is about an LDS family. Gives me great anxiety knowing I might not even make it to the spirit world and that I will be stuck in between worlds. Has anyone else read this book?

When you pass from this life you will be in the spirit world - There is no stuck between. However, it is possible to pass through into the spirit world and not realize that one has left mortality.

The Traveler

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Actually, while I don't look to Saturday's Warrior for doctrinal insight, I absolutely believe -- "assume" is probably a better word -- that we lived in family units premortally. That is the unit we live in and are supposed to establish now, and it will be the unit we are a part of for all eternity. I see no reason to believe that we were not similarly organized in our premortal existence(s).

I can believe that we lived in family units premortally, but I don't think it's the same family structure that we have on earth. The reason why I say this is because, on earth, we do retain the choice of who we are going to marry for time and eternity, that is if we even get married at all, and how many children we're going to have.

So, in the musical, the family had... 7?... children in pre-mortal existence. Then the parents came to earth, got married, then had children. Now, if the oldest brother's wishes were to have come to fruition and they decide that they just can't afford to have one more child and the parents decide to not have the last daughter, I can't reconcile this with having the pre-mortal daughter become some kind of a spiritual orphan.

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I can believe that we lived in family units premortally, but I don't think it's the same family structure that we have on earth. The reason why I say this is because, on earth, we do retain the choice of who we are going to marry for time and eternity, that is if we even get married at all, and how many children we're going to have.

So, in the musical, the family had... 7?... children in pre-mortal existence. Then the parents came to earth, got married, then had children. Now, if the oldest brother's wishes were to have come to fruition and they decide that they just can't afford to have one more child and the parents decide to not have the last daughter, I can't reconcile this with having the pre-mortal daughter become some kind of a spiritual orphan.

I have considered a number of concepts about agency in mortality. We agree that what happens in mortality is the result of agency but I am not sure to what extent we alter very much in mortality.

Let me give one possible example. Suppose one is making a trip from Jacksonville Florida to Los Angeles. While we are thinking about such a journey lets think about time. To compare time to distance let us think in terms of 1000 years equal to about a foot. If we are to consider that we are intelligences that have been involved with G-d since the creation of our universe then the distance that resembles that amount of time is about the distance from Jacksonville, Florida to Los Angeles. Our life in mortality should we live around 100 years would then be about one and half inches.

Now let us imagine that on our journey from Jacksonville, Florida to Los Angles California we make many free will choices in our journey so that now we have but 1 and a half inches left. With all the momentum and all our choices - what would it take during that last inch and a half in making choices to make that much difference?

I sometimes wonder if before we came to mortality we “programmed” out our lives. If we determined what our mortal journey would be then there is no loss of agency even if we had no power in this life to change much at all - like the last inch and a half in the journey from Jacksonville to Los Angles.

This would mean that we all understood very well - perhaps as well as did G-d what the results of our mortality would be. That would explain quite well why one part of heaven decided not to even participate in mortality. Thus their journey would not even come close to taking them from Jacksonville to Los Angles - and your scenario of one child left unborn would already have been considered and resolved long before we took on the last inch and a half.

The Traveler

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I have considered a number of concepts about agency in mortality. We agree that what happens in mortality is the result of agency but I am not sure to what extent we alter very much in mortality.

Let me give one possible example. Suppose one is making a trip from Jacksonville Florida to Los Angeles. While we are thinking about such a journey lets think about time. To compare time to distance let us think in terms of 1000 years equal to about a foot. If we are to consider that we are intelligences that have been involved with G-d since the creation of our universe then the distance that resembles that amount of time is about the distance from Jacksonville, Florida to Los Angeles. Our life in mortality should we live around 100 years would then be about one and half inches.

Now let us imagine that on our journey from Jacksonville, Florida to Los Angles California we make many free will choices in our journey so that now we have but 1 and a half inches left. With all the momentum and all our choices - what would it take during that last inch and a half in making choices to make that much difference?

I sometimes wonder if before we came to mortality we “programmed” out our lives. If we determined what our mortal journey would be then there is no loss of agency even if we had no power in this life to change much at all - like the last inch and a half in the journey from Jacksonville to Los Angles.

This would mean that we all understood very well - perhaps as well as did G-d what the results of our mortality would be. That would explain quite well why one part of heaven decided not to even participate in mortality. Thus their journey would not even come close to taking them from Jacksonville to Los Angles - and your scenario of one child left unborn would already have been considered and resolved long before we took on the last inch and a half.

The Traveler

I kinda see what your saying but idk if we knew what would be are destiny, but i do believe we did know our trials, and pains. I dk about the end so much though.

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Actually, while I don't look to Saturday's Warrior for doctrinal insight, I absolutely believe -- "assume" is probably a better word -- that we lived in family units premortally. That is the unit we live in and are supposed to establish now, and it will be the unit we are a part of for all eternity. I see no reason to believe that we were not similarly organized in our premortal existence(s).

How is this possible? I believe that we will live with our spouses, but we have to remember our family units extend greatly. Our children marry and have their own children which becomes their family unit. Then add in the sons and daugher in laws who are in units with their own parents? Can't see how that would work. :huh:

Edited to say I realise you were talking about the premortal existence but the same principle applies.

Edited again to say I am referring to the fact of 'living' in separate family units, not organisation of family units.

Edited by Sali
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I have considered a number of concepts about agency in mortality. We agree that what happens in mortality is the result of agency but I am not sure to what extent we alter very much in mortality.

Let me give one possible example. Suppose one is making a trip from Jacksonville Florida to Los Angeles. While we are thinking about such a journey lets think about time. To compare time to distance let us think in terms of 1000 years equal to about a foot. If we are to consider that we are intelligences that have been involved with G-d since the creation of our universe then the distance that resembles that amount of time is about the distance from Jacksonville, Florida to Los Angeles. Our life in mortality should we live around 100 years would then be about one and half inches.

Now let us imagine that on our journey from Jacksonville, Florida to Los Angles California we make many free will choices in our journey so that now we have but 1 and a half inches left. With all the momentum and all our choices - what would it take during that last inch and a half in making choices to make that much difference?

I sometimes wonder if before we came to mortality we “programmed” out our lives. If we determined what our mortal journey would be then there is no loss of agency even if we had no power in this life to change much at all - like the last inch and a half in the journey from Jacksonville to Los Angles.

This would mean that we all understood very well - perhaps as well as did G-d what the results of our mortality would be. That would explain quite well why one part of heaven decided not to even participate in mortality. Thus their journey would not even come close to taking them from Jacksonville to Los Angles - and your scenario of one child left unborn would already have been considered and resolved long before we took on the last inch and a half.

The Traveler

I don't agree with this only because I wouldn't find any good reason to come to earth if we already had our fates predetermined by us. I mean sure - known by God, I get that. But not by us. Otherwise, people like Hitler would be very stupid if they knew they were going to be bad and not get to where God is and still want to come anyway.

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Hi Angel333;

I know there is a doctrine of Spirit Prison. I believe you can study it in the Doctrine and Covenants....I looked it up and there are a lot of topics under "spirit," including "spirit world" in the index...

I have also been taught and have heard that Joseph Smith taught that the spirit world/spirit prison is right here amongst us; but, just in another realm. That makes a lot of sense to me given a couple of experiences I've had with spirits and all the reports I've heard of other people having the same kind of experiences. I've often been told in priesthood blessings about the spirits who surround me; both good and evil....

Please don't feel bad about the man who wanted to stay on earth after his death. I believe that each one of us is known unto God and is in the correct place for how we have lived our lives....That man will eventually have the opportunity to hear and accept the gospel. Spirit prison is part of the punishment for those who did not live their lives well in accordance with gospel principals, as far as they could have, given the knowledge they had in their lifetime....

I relate to your concern though. When I have watched TV shows on hauntings, I have often wanted to track down the spirits doing the haunting to do their temple work for them. Please rest assured that God knows of them and their pain and has His hand/works in their lives still.

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"Be sure to tell the people to keep the Spirit of the Lord; and if they will, they will find themselves just as they were organized by our Father in Heaven before they came into the world. Our Father in Heaven organized the human family, but they are all disorganized and in great confusion." This is from when Joseph Smith visited Brigham Young in a dream in 1847. We were organized before in family units?

“Brigham Young’s vision of Joseph Smith”. Manuscript History of Brigham Young. 1847. 56."

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I don't agree with this only because I wouldn't find any good reason to come to earth if we already had our fates predetermined by us. I mean sure - known by God, I get that. But not by us. Otherwise, people like Hitler would be very stupid if they knew they were going to be bad and not get to where God is and still want to come anyway.

Anatess: Please do not think I disagree and want to argue – but I do not understand the agency of man if what you are suggesting is the only possibility. Since you are of a different opinion – please consider this and respond.

Hitler is a very good example of what I am trying to understand. If, as you say, Hitler would be very stupid because of all the bad and not being able to get where G-d is – then the question is -- Did Hitler really execute agency and free will during his mortal life? The other question is – What is the purpose of the atonement of Christ?

When Hitler comes to realize all the “BAD”; I see only two possibilities. Either he very much enjoys all the bad – every bit of it – and has no desire to be where G-d is but rather to be where he can enjoy what he loves doing. Or he very much regrets all the bad – every bit of it – and desires to be rid of his sins and be where G-d is.

The only way I can understand that Hitler does indeed have agency and free will is if all of the BAD – every bit of it was because he carefully considered the possibility and made a clear choice. If he did not knowing make a clear choice – then our scriptures are false and man really does has not have actual and true agency. Man is not all that free to act – but is only subject to be acted upon.

The one good reason is so that man has agency. I wonder if the argument in the pre-existence concerning "no good reason" was the choice of those that divided the Kingdom of Heaven concerning the plan of salvation. If we all did not know the outcome - how could our choice be an exercise of agency and free will?

The Traveler

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Anatess: Please do not think I disagree and want to argue – but I do not understand the agency of man if what you are suggesting is the only possibility. Since you are of a different opinion – please consider this and respond.

Hitler is a very good example of what I am trying to understand. If, as you say, Hitler would be very stupid because of all the bad and not being able to get where G-d is – then the question is -- Did Hitler really execute agency and free will during his mortal life? The other question is – What is the purpose of the atonement of Christ?

When Hitler comes to realize all the “BAD”; I see only two possibilities. Either he very much enjoys all the bad – every bit of it – and has no desire to be where G-d is but rather to be where he can enjoy what he loves doing. Or he very much regrets all the bad – every bit of it – and desires to be rid of his sins and be where G-d is.

The only way I can understand that Hitler does indeed have agency and free will is if all of the BAD – every bit of it was because he carefully considered the possibility and made a clear choice. If he did not knowing make a clear choice – then our scriptures are false and man really does has not have actual and true agency. Man is not all that free to act – but is only subject to be acted upon.

The one good reason is so that man has agency. I wonder if the argument in the pre-existence concerning "no good reason" was the choice of those that divided the Kingdom of Heaven concerning the plan of salvation. If we all did not know the outcome - how could our choice be an exercise of agency and free will?

The Traveler

Not the way I see it.

The veil was put on us when we started mortality not so we can make the SAME CHOICE all over again. But because we want to know what CHOICE we will pick once presented with the opposition.

So no, Hitler did not make the choice to go through mortality as a bad man before he became mortal. He did not know what choice he was going to make. He made the choice as he was presented with the opposition. He is VERY MUCH free to act on that opposition.

Christ's Atonement guarantees that we overcome mortal and spiritual death. There would be no point in the Atonement if Hitler already knew he didn't want to strive to be in the Celestial Kingdom.

No, I'm not arguing either. I'm telling you how my logical brain processes these things.

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... Gives me great anxiety knowing I might not even make it to the spirit world and that I will be stuck in between worlds. ...

If you trust solely in the work of Jesus on the cross to justify you before the throne of God, then you not be anxious about this sort of thing at all. The prospect of being welcomed into the presence of your Heavenly Father will never be in question if it has nothing to do with how hard you try, but only what he has done for you.

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Not the way I see it.

The veil was put on us when we started mortality not so we can make the SAME CHOICE all over again. But because we want to know what CHOICE we will pick once presented with the opposition.

So no, Hitler did not make the choice to go through mortality as a bad man before he became mortal. He did not know what choice he was going to make. He made the choice as he was presented with the opposition. He is VERY MUCH free to act on that opposition.

Christ's Atonement guarantees that we overcome mortal and spiritual death. There would be no point in the Atonement if Hitler already knew he didn't want to strive to be in the Celestial Kingdom.

No, I'm not arguing either. I'm telling you how my logical brain processes these things.

I sort of follow - but cannot connect all the dots. When does Hitler, or for that matter anyone else exercise agency? If we did not know what were were choosing in the per-existence - that would not be a choice of free will. But if agency was not complete there - how could Satan and a third part be cast out? Since we have a vale here then because of that vale agency and free will cannot be complete here - the only other option is the spirit world and that leaves this life void or real purpose.

The only thing obvious at this point in my mind - is that in this life we must make choices based on faith - but faith is not knowledge - how can we be held accountable for that which we do not know and understand. In other words this life is the only time we can make choices that are not completely an expression of our agency and free will. That is why we can repent in this life - and that is why there can be an atonement - because our choices are made in ignorance and lack complete free will - not knowing for sure.

We fall because of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Sin is evil and since in this life we all fall short and sin then by this experience we have knowledge of evil in death. But also because of the fall we can know and experience the mercy and compassion of G-d - so we have experience and knowledge of good - through the resurrection. Neither of which - the good or the evil could we know without the fall. So in full knowledge we choose to know the good from the evil.

The Traveler

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Occasionally, it has been thought that souls who pass away from this life are held in a type of holding bin or limbo until God will see them. According to scripture they are not, but they immediately stand before their Maker. There is nothing more frightening than to fear death or the circumstances of the unknown.

Death in any case is a very sensitive issue, and I have often wondered what happens after a person passes away. I am grateful for the blessings of modern-day scripture. I offer the following sensitive verses from the Book of Mormon, modern day scripture for all Latter-day Saints. I hope that this helps you. Blessings, Gar

Please note verse 11 and 12; Quoting from the Book of Mormon Alma 40:11-13;

11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection—Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.

12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.

13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil."

Edited by Gargantuan
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I sort of follow - but cannot connect all the dots. When does Hitler, or for that matter anyone else exercise agency? If we did not know what were were choosing in the per-existence - that would not be a choice of free will. But if agency was not complete there - how could Satan and a third part be cast out? Since we have a vale here then because of that vale agency and free will cannot be complete here - the only other option is the spirit world and that leaves this life void or real purpose.

The only thing obvious at this point in my mind - is that in this life we must make choices based on faith - but faith is not knowledge - how can we be held accountable for that which we do not know and understand. In other words this life is the only time we can make choices that are not completely an expression of our agency and free will. That is why we can repent in this life - and that is why there can be an atonement - because our choices are made in ignorance and lack complete free will - not knowing for sure.

We fall because of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Sin is evil and since in this life we all fall short and sin then by this experience we have knowledge of evil in death. But also because of the fall we can know and experience the mercy and compassion of G-d - so we have experience and knowledge of good - through the resurrection. Neither of which - the good or the evil could we know without the fall. So in full knowledge we choose to know the good from the evil.

The Traveler

Traveler, I think you're making it too complicated. Free agency is not one choice for the entire journey. Therefore, in pre-mortal existence, the choice was simply - follow the Plan of the Atonement or follow Lucifer's plan. Complete free agency but with perfect knowledge of God. 2/3's of us chose to follow Christ and undergo a test of free agency without perfect knowledge of God. The rest didn't want to go through that.

Now, when we came to earth - we go through the trial by fire... to see if we continue to choose to follow Christ without perfect knowledge of God. Complete free agency. It's the only way we can really know if we are truly one with God on our own choosing, not God's choosing.

I see it as simple as that.

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