Susan Powell Saga Continues and Continues

[Guest]

The big deal is burying a man right next to the sons he murdered. That's the big deal.

Like I said... I don't understand why this is a big deal. It's not like the sons would get murdered again by their dead dad.

[Jenamarie]

Like I said... I don't understand why this is a big deal. It's not like the sons would get murdered again by their dead dad.

But every time their family members, particularly their mother's family, came to visit their graves, they'd have to face their murderer's tombstone being right there, also.

[applepansy]

Like I said... I don't understand why this is a big deal. It's not like the sons would get murdered again by their dead dad.

Anatess, what feelings would you have if you were the parent of a child who was brutally murdered if every time you went to the cemetery you had to see a headstone with the name of the person who hurt your child and by extension your whole family?

[Guest]

Anatess, what feelings would you have if you were the parent of a child who was brutally murdered if every time you went to the cemetery you had to see a headstone with the name of the person who hurt your child and by extension your whole family?

The same answer I give to my husband everytime he asks me (in our arguments over my stance against capital punishment) what if this guy murdered your children would you still not wish him death? My answer is no. It is not for me to judge the value of his life. It is only God's and his holy priesthood - not some state governor.

The children are dead. The father is dead. At this point in time all 3 of them are in a better place. And at this point in time, the children are probably up in the spirit world teaching the father the gospel.

Yes, I would feel sorrow. But, I don't see a reason to avoid praying for his soul by his tombstone as I pray for the children. I've never understood why people would let hate rule over their lives even past death.

Edited February 16, 2012 by anatess

[applepansy]

The same answer I give to my husband everytime he asks me (in our arguments over my stance against capital punishment) what if this guy murdered your children would you still not wish him death? My answer is no. It is not for me to judge the value of his life. It is only God's and his holy priesthood - not some state governor.

The children are dead. The father is dead. At this point in time all 3 of them are in a better place.

I agree with you. However, I would still have trouble dealing with the feelings towards the person who murdered my loved one. I would not want those feelings to resurface every time I went to visited the grave of my loved one.

And at this point in time, the children are probably up in the spirit world teaching the father the gospel.

This is don't agree with. The children are in the Spirit World and their father is in Spirit Prison. I don't think they have any contact with him.

Yes, I would feel sorrow. But, I don't see a reason to avoid praying for his soul by his tombstone as I pray for the children. I've never understood why people would let hate rule over their lives even past death.

He doesn't need to be buried next to them to be prayed for.

Its not about hate. Its about hurt.

[Guest]

This is don't agree with. The children are in the Spirit World and their father is in Spirit Prison. I don't think they have any contact with him.

We are not in the position to know this for a fact.

He doesn't need to be buried next to them to be prayed for.

Its not about hate. Its about hurt.

Agree, he doesn't need to be buried next to them but I don't see a need to deny him his own family plot either.

Yes, I understand hurt. I don't understand hurt beyond death. To illustrate - if the father was still alive and wanted to visit his son's grave at the same exact moment that the mother visited the grave, yes, I would probably be hurt and avoid the situation. But the guy being dead with his surviving family wanting to have him buried with the rest of his dead family... I don't see a reason for the surviving family to have to visit two cemeteries because I'm hurt...

[beefche]

They aren't denying him a family plot. They are denying him to be buried next to his victims.

[applepansy]

We are not in the position to know this for a fact.

There are many General Conferences addresses about Spirit Prison and who will go there. I think there is more than a good chance he's not with his children. The children because of their ages are with our Heavenly Father. They are saved. Josh isn't, by a long shot.

Agree, he doesn't need to be buried next to them but I don't see a need to deny him his own family plot either.

I have yet to read anything that was denying him his own family plot. What I've read is that no one wants him buried next to the children, and Susan if they find her body. His actions have forfeited him the right to call Susan and her boys "his family."

Yes, I understand hurt. I don't understand hurt beyond death. To illustrate - if the father was still alive and wanted to visit his son's grave at the same exact moment that the mother visited the grave, yes, I would probably be hurt and avoid the situation. But the guy being dead with his surviving family wanting to have him buried with the rest of his dead family... I don't see a reason for the surviving family to have to visit two cemeteries because I'm hurt...

At this point in time I'm sure the hurt is too fresh. Forgiveness takes time.

Regarding the bolded: There is hurt right now. Just because Josh Powell is dead doesn't make the hurt magically disappear. Knowing the pain he has caused I don't understand why the Powell family would want to continue to hurt the Cox family. Its a small thing to visit two cemeteries compared to the continuing hurt in this life.

If I was Josh's aunt, sister, brother, I certainly wouldn't want to cause the Cox family any more pain.

[Guest]

They aren't denying him a family plot. They are denying him to be buried next to his victims.

I don't understand what you're saying. I think it's my grasp of English - to me a family plot is - getting buried next to your family, regardless of how everybody died.

[applepansy]

I don't understand what you're saying. I think it's my grasp of English - to me a family plot is - getting buried next to your family, regardless of how everybody died.

We rarely have "family plots" in the sense that everyone for generations is buried in the same place.

A cemetery plot in the USA is one space for one person. In my grandparents time families would purchase several plots together. My grandparents purchased six. My husband's grandparents purchased eight.

My parents have purchased two and so have my in-laws.

My husband and I will be purchasing four. The reason is because we appreciated having a place to bury our son where he could be close to other family members. There are four grandchildren and one uncle buried next to my husband's grandparents. (Is this what you mean by a family plot?)

[Dravin]

I don't understand what you're saying. I think it's my grasp of English - to me a family plot is - getting buried next to your family, regardless of how everybody died.

A family plot is a plot of land/funeral pre-purchased with the idea that your family can all be buried together. You basically buy them now so you won't risk your family of four having to be split up because in the time between family members deaths the plots next to where the first ones are buried are sold to other people.

So:

I buy 4 plots next to each other so I, my wife, and my children can be buried next to each other: Family plot.

My children die and I buy two plots to bury them in: Not a family plot and I have no more claim to the plots next to them than does Magic Johnson.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Dravin

[annewandering]

Josh Powell's mom understands why burying Josh's body near his sons would cause pain. That is why she changed her mind on where to bury his body. It is a thoughtful thing for her to do even though she apparently didnt think of it at first.

Anatess, whenever we visit my mother in laws grave, I am reminded of the man who molested me because he is buried just up the slope from her. It bothers me, whether it should or not. How much more would it bother family members to see the murderer's tombstone near where his victims lie buried? It is just a normal human reaction to want to avoid that pain.

As a side issue he should not be buried where people can know where his grave is. It will be desecrated. Better to be in an unmarked grave.

[john doe]

I think it's extremely insensitive to the survivors for the murderer to be buried near his victims. It is in very poor taste to make a grieving family member walk past or even near the gravesite of the person who killed those young children. No, the spirits don't reside there, but to constantly reopen that wound for the grieving family helps no one in the healing process. Besides that, with the recent history between these two families, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to control oneself if they were to visit the same general plot of ground at the same time. Especially if Josh's father were there, in the wake of all the things he said about the boys' mother and his fantasies of her. That's a situation that should be avoided at all costs. There are 9 other cemetaries in the area that would be just fine for Josh to be buried if they choose to. Personally, I would choose to have him cremated and dump his ashes in the depths of the Mariana Tench, but that's just me.

[pam]

The children are dead. The father is dead. At this point in time all 3 of them are in a better place. And at this point in time, the children are probably up in the spirit world teaching the father the gospel.

Then again..Josh had a knowledge of the gospel. He and Susan were married in the Portland temple.

Edited February 17, 2012 by pam

[MorningStar]

I don't understand what you're saying. I think it's my grasp of English - to me a family plot is - getting buried next to your family, regardless of how everybody died.

Let Josh be buried next to his disgusting Dad. Then he'll have his family plot. If Susan is ever found, she deserves to be buried with her children.

[MorningStar]

Like I said... I don't understand why this is a big deal. It's not like the sons would get murdered again by their dead dad.

If someone chopped your children in the head and neck with a hatchet in front of each other and blew them up, I have a hard time imagining that you would want to see that person's name right next to them while visiting their graves.

[Guest]

We rarely have "family plots" in the sense that everyone for generations is buried in the same place.

A cemetery plot in the USA is one space for one person. In my grandparents time families would purchase several plots together. My grandparents purchased six. My husband's grandparents purchased eight.

My parents have purchased two and so have my in-laws.

My husband and I will be purchasing four. The reason is because we appreciated having a place to bury our son where he could be close to other family members. There are four grandchildren and one uncle buried next to my husband's grandparents. (Is this what you mean by a family plot?)

A family plot is a plot of land/funeral pre-purchased with the idea that your family can all be buried together. You basically buy them now so you won't risk your family of four having to be split up because in the time between family members deaths the plots next to where the first ones are buried are sold to other people.

So:

I buy 4 plots next to each other so I, my wife, and my children can be buried next to each other: Family plot.

My children die and I buy two plots to bury them in: Not a family plot and I have no more claim to the plots next to them than does Magic Johnson.

Thanks! Yes, this is how I understood family plots are. So, I guess I misunderstood - I thought the plots were already bought previously - before they all died.

My family has their own cemetery in the Philippines. You can be buried there if you're related by blood or marriage to the family. We have family there from the early 1800's. It makes it easier to do genealogy. November 2 in the Philippines is a holiday reserved for visiting the dead. It makes it so much easier to visit everybody in one day.

Edited February 17, 2012 by anatess

[Guest]

If someone chopped your children in the head and neck with a hatchet in front of each other and blew them up, I have a hard time imagining that you would want to see that person's name right next to them while visiting their graves.

Uhm... we actually have a few of them in the family cemetery in the Philippines. On November 2, we hear all the stories all over again (Nov 2 - All Soul's Day Holiday - the family spend the entire day at the cemetery and have a grand old party). The bad stories usually turn into legends that are used to scare the kids when it gets dark. That's one of the reasons my family got their own cemetery separate from the Catholic Cemetery - so they won't have to beg and plead with the Catholic Church to bury the "bad apples" with the family. It used to be that the Catholic Church won't bury you in the Catholic Cemetery if you've done heinous crimes or some things that disqualify you from being Catholic (like babies that are not baptized). But then, we haven't had one of those happen in this generation, so all the stories are from way back before World War II time.

The thing is - if that really happened to me - seeing his grave wouldn't matter one lick. That guy's name is forever ingrained in my brain every waking moment of every single day. So, unless I forgive the guy to the point that it removes the hurt from my heart, I might as well be dead too.

Edited February 17, 2012 by anatess

[applepansy]

Uhm... we actually have a few of them in the family cemetery in the Philippines. On November 2, we hear all the stories all over again (Nov 2 - All Soul's Day Holiday - the family spend the entire day at the cemetery and have a grand old party). The bad stories usually turn into legends that are used to scare the kids when it gets dark. That's one of the reasons my family got their own cemetery separate from the Catholic Cemetery - so they won't have to beg and plead with the Catholic Church to bury the "bad apples" with the family. It used to be that the Catholic Church won't bury you in the Catholic Cemetery if you've done heinous crimes or some things that disqualify you from being Catholic (like babies that are not baptized). But then, we haven't had one of those happen in this generation, so all the stories are from way back before World War II time.

The thing is - if that really happened to me - seeing his grave wouldn't matter one lick. That guy's name is forever ingrained in my brain every waking moment of every single day. So, unless I forgive the guy to the point that it removes the hurt from my heart, I might as well be dead too.

Until something like this actually happens to a person I don't believe anyone can really say how they would feel or act. We can all say how we think we would feel/act. We can plan to think or feel a certain way. But when it happens raw emotions often take over.

If you can really forgive that easily and quickly then you have an admirable quality.

[annewandering]

Uhm... we actually have a few of them in the family cemetery in the Philippines. On November 2, we hear all the stories all over again (Nov 2 - All Soul's Day Holiday - the family spend the entire day at the cemetery and have a grand old party). The bad stories usually turn into legends that are used to scare the kids when it gets dark. That's one of the reasons my family got their own cemetery separate from the Catholic Cemetery - so they won't have to beg and plead with the Catholic Church to bury the "bad apples" with the family. It used to be that the Catholic Church won't bury you in the Catholic Cemetery if you've done heinous crimes or some things that disqualify you from being Catholic (like babies that are not baptized). But then, we haven't had one of those happen in this generation, so all the stories are from way back before World War II time.

The thing is - if that really happened to me - seeing his grave wouldn't matter one lick. That guy's name is forever ingrained in my brain every waking moment of every single day. So, unless I forgive the guy to the point that it removes the hurt from my heart, I might as well be dead too.

Anatess, that is good for you but for most people it isnt. Most people would be disturbed by it and just be reminded all over of the bad things that happened. Sure when they visit the grave they are going to remember but its a lot easier to remember the joy when the murderer isnt buried next door to remind you of the bad.

[Guest]

Anatess, that is good for you but for most people it isnt. Most people would be disturbed by it and just be reminded all over of the bad things that happened. Sure when they visit the grave they are going to remember but its a lot easier to remember the joy when the murderer isnt buried next door to remind you of the bad.

So... this really made me wonder...

So, I went and asked everybody I talked to today (I work from home, so besides the kids, I don't really talk to too many people when I'm working)...

And here's my findings:

1.) My husband - American - said No Way is he burrying the dad with the sons.

2.) I asked 3 more born and raised American - No way they all said.

3.) I asked 2 people from India - both of them said they don't mind if the dad gets buried with the children. One said if he's a Cox, he wouldn't care where the dad is buried, and if he's a Powell he'll defer to the Cox on whether to bury the dad with the sons or not. The other one went on to say that she'll only care that peace can be found between the surviving family - and if burying them together would make them face reconciliation then so much the better. Of course - they both don't care if the dad gets thrown into the ocean instead either.

4.) I asked another Filipino - she said she'll have the dad buried next to the sons so she can spit on his grave everytime she visits. Yes, she wasn't kidding!

I don't know what to conclude about my idiot-attempt-at-some-research. LOL.

[annewandering]

So... this really made me wonder...

So, I went and asked everybody I talked to today (I work from home, so besides the kids, I don't really talk to too many people when I'm working)...

And here's my findings:

1.) My husband - American - said No Way is he burrying the dad with the sons.

2.) I asked 3 more born and raised American - No way they all said.

3.) I asked 2 people from India - both of them said they don't mind if the dad gets buried with the children. One said if he's a Cox, he wouldn't care where the dad is buried, and if he's a Powell he'll defer to the Cox on whether to bury the dad with the sons or not. The other one went on to say that she'll only care that peace can be found between the surviving family - and if burying them together would make them face reconciliation then so much the better. Of course - they both don't care if the dad gets thrown into the ocean instead either.

4.) I asked another Filipino - she said she'll have the dad buried next to the sons so she can spit on his grave everytime she visits. Yes, she wasn't kidding!

I don't know what to conclude about my idiot-attempt-at-some-research. LOL.

Nice research! About the Filipino response, well when I have gone to visit my motherinlaws grave I make a point of making a side track and spit on the molesters grave as well so I can totally agree with her!

[Bini]

Lmbo! Anatess, she must know my MIL cos that's something she'd totally say and do! But she's born and raised Dutch, so it must be a "feisty" thing and not a cultural thing.

[pam]

And the Powell family saga continues:

Josh Powell's brother commits suicide in Minneapolis | ksl.com

[applepansy]

And the Powell family saga continues:

Josh Powell's brother commits suicide in Minneapolis | ksl.com

It just gets sadder each time we hear more about the family. My heart goes out to their sister Jennifer Graves. I don't know if I could handle what she's had to endure.