Food storage - what about medicine?

[Guest tomk]

After 17 years of marriage my wife and I are finally beginning to do some food storage. Oddly enough it began because of a show on TV called "Extreme Couponing". I am not sure if we qualify as extreme couponers, but we are doing it and reaping some pretty substantial savings!

It feels good and it feels right to have a stockpile of food, toothpaste, toilet paper, shampoo, and other necessities. We feel more secure. We were not able to experience this feeling until after we had begun to notice a pretty decent quantity of those items in our pantry. We began to realize that we would not need to buy some things for quite some time. And then once you have an item stockpiled, you are no longer spending money on that item when you shop. Which means you have the money freed-up to spend on other things.

Please forgive my rambling. For those of you who have been working on your food supply this is all probably "old hat" to you. We're excited because it is new to us to experience this and feel this way.

My actual question is - what about medicine?

We have a 7 year old girl who is severely disabled. She is fed through a feeding tube at night. Without this ability to feed her this way, she would not survive.

She also has a considerable cocktail of different drugs she takes in the morning and also at night. Some of these drugs, if not all of them, cannot really be stockpiled.

If modern society goes wacky and we have to run for the hills or stay barricaded in our home - how would our 7 year old survive?

For now this remains a purely intellectual question. I am just wondering if it is even possible to prepare for a time where the medicine is not available.

If anyone has also thought about this or even faced this in real life - I would welcome your input.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Tom.

Prepare for some pretty depressing news. If you'll remember back to hurricane Katrina, there were stories of valor and lots of effort to evacuate the hospitals and nursing homes and whatnot. It was a massive effort incurring a lot of expense and taking a lot of effort to handle these frail folks with special requirements for machines and uninterrupted power and whatnot. It worked pretty well, because the thing was a localized disaster, and we had an entire rich country to pull abundant resources from.

The terrifying final truth, is that if "modern society goes wacky and we have to run for the hills or stay barricaded in our home", you - TomK - the father - the head of the house - you have to answer your own question. There won't be all these resources to pull from, or services available. So, if you don't have a way to feed your daughter or she can't survive without her medicines, well, complete this sentence yourself. Yes, God works miracles sometimes. But yes, lots of folk died on the Pioneer trek.

I recommend the book One Second After by William R. Forstchen. It describes a scenario where the power goes out to the whole country one day. That's a pretty low-risk scenario, but it sets up pretty realistically what will happen to communities and counties and states if there's a melodramatic change to our economy or power grid.

To answer your question - yes, I've thought about this quite a bit. The health and wellbeing of my family currently depends on quite a large number of prescriptions and access to medical services.

[Guest tomk]

Hi Tom.

Prepare for some pretty depressing news. If you'll remember back to hurricane Katrina, there were stories of valor and lots of effort to evacuate the hospitals and nursing homes and whatnot. It was a massive effort incurring a lot of expense and taking a lot of effort to handle these frail folks with special requirements for machines and uninterrupted power and whatnot. It worked pretty well, because the thing was a localized disaster, and we had an entire rich country to pull abundant resources from.

The terrifying final truth, is that if "modern society goes wacky and we have to run for the hills or stay barricaded in our home", you - TomK - the father - the head of the house - you have to answer your own question. There won't be all these resources to pull from, or services available. So, if you don't have a way to feed your daughter or she can't survive without her medicines, well, complete this sentence yourself. Yes, God works miracles sometimes. But yes, lots of folk died on the Pioneer trek.

I recommend the book One Second After by William R. Forstchen. It describes a scenario where the power goes out to the whole country one day. That's a pretty low-risk scenario, but it sets up pretty realistically what will happen to communities and counties and states if there's a melodramatic change to our economy or power grid.

To answer your question - yes, I've thought about this quite a bit. The health and wellbeing of my family currently depends on quite a large number of prescriptions and access to medical services.

I'll have to check-out the book! I like books that explore end of the world / doomsday type scenarios and attempt to answer "what if..." :) I guess the Book of Mormon qualifies as one of those books!

You've given it a lot of thought, but you neglected to mention any conclusions you drew from all of that thinking? Care to share? Or is it personal?

If my 7 year old was facing an agonizing death, I would consider some options that right now are unthinkable. :/

[NeuroTypical]

You've given it a lot of thought, but you neglected to mention any conclusions you drew from all of that thinking?

Absolutely. Conclusions:

* The word of wisdom is important. Following it helps avoid many adverse conditions that come from breaking it, from addictions to alcoholism to diet-related diabetes to bad hearts to weak knees.

* Clean and righteous living is important, in that it avoids stress-related disorders that can become debilitating medical conditions over time.

* Exercise and physical fitness is important for the same reasons as the first two.

* The last 20 years has seen dramatic drops in infant mortality, leading to lots and lots of medically fragile people who live entire lives dependent on lots and lots of abundant medical care. These folks don't exist in 2nd or 3rd world countries, and should horrible times arrive here, they won't exist here either.

* Everybody dies. Walking through scenarios that lead one to grapple with the chance that a loved one may die, can be useful in helping us remember that. We're supposed to be living our lives like the 2nd coming was going to happen tomorrow anyway, right?

[annewandering]

I think you could figure out a way to feed her. Meds are the real problem. I try to stay ahead of my meds where ever possible. Perhaps you might look into natural foods alternatives. Not ideal in most situations but it might be better than nothing and it might be storable.

If worse came to worse consider that there are some things that just have to be left in the hands of God. Our baby son was going to die. The likelihood was that he was going to starve to death over a period of time. God was merciful and took him in two days. Long enough for us to hold and love him a bit then He relieved him of the suffering. It doesnt always happen quite like that but trust in God that when you have done all you can He can deal with it.

[Iggy]

My husband obsesses over having meds stockpiled. I don't. We both have high blood pressure, I have type 2 diabetes. He takes thyroid meds too.

My goal is to eat healthy and get off the pills and insulin. When I attain that goal, my blood pressure will come down too. Oddly enough my bad cholosterol is at or near normal and my good cholosterol is just a little under normal.

When it does get bad, storing insulin will be nearly impossible. Thus I MUST make eating healthy top priority NOW.

The next big ticket items on our list is a propane powered generator, large propane tank, and a volcano stove.

Edited February 18, 2012 by pam
filter skipping

[marshac]

I'll have to check-out the book!

It's a good one- I think I started a thread in here about it a few years ago... and a link to the pdf?

[marshac]

We have a 7 year old girl who is severely disabled. She is fed through a feeding tube at night. Without this ability to feed her this way, she would not survive.

She also has a considerable cocktail of different drugs she takes in the morning and also at night. Some of these drugs, if not all of them, cannot really be stockpiled.

If modern society goes wacky and we have to run for the hills or stay barricaded in our home - how would our 7 year old survive?

Now to answer your question...

First point- if the supply lines broke down and the drugs are absolutely required for her to live... unfortunately you have your answer. What you could do though is discuss your concerns with her doctor and see if there are any pharmacological options available that you could store- they may be less effective or carry more side effects than what she's on now, but at least it would be something you could keep on hand just in case. As for the feeding- keep plenty of her food on hand just as you would keep food on hand for everyone else. When we had our first kid, we always had MONTHS worth of formula around just in case. Actually, now that i'm thinking about it, dry powdered baby formula might be an acceptable (and inexpensive/storable) substitute for what you're using now- check out and compare the nutritional information for comparable sized servings.

For the DM folks out there- before the era of insulin, folks with DM were fed a meat-based diet... people died young, but they still lived for awhile. Do the same if you're removed from your regular DM drugs- cut the carbs, and don't forget that glucose can enter EXERCISING muscle independent of the action of insulin.

[Guest tomk]

Thanks for all of the posts so far.

You've given me "food for thought" - no pun intended.

[Martain]

Another alternate resource would be using the website found here and doing a bit of research.

Since most medicinal compounds are found originally in nature, you could find out what the active medicinal compound is in her medications and look for it's natural counterpart within nature. Perhaps this would lead to something you could actually stockpile.

As for doomsday scenario's, I think you'll really love "The Great and the Terrible" series. It's by an LDS author and was phenomenal. Not only for the story line but for gems of truth witnessed by the Spirit.

Ultimately if you can't stock pile them then you can't stock pile them.

Personally I've done a lot of research and have gained a lot of experience with non-western approaches to healing. I found modern society and modern science (drugs/surgery) does not have a monopoly on healing.

God loved his children in those ages just like he loves his children now and he gave them tools to heal and cure diseases just like he's given us newer tools now.

If the newer tools are no longer available, you may need to learn about the older set and find out how to use them.

If nothing else, you could seek in prayer knowledge as to whether the other sets of tools would be of aid to you and worth even looking into right?

[marshac]

Since most medicinal compounds are found originally in nature, you could find out what the active medicinal compound is in her medications and look for it's natural counterpart within nature. Perhaps this would lead to something you could actually stockpile.

I can get behind this to some degree, although the main problem with plants is the lack of standardization- the soil the plant grows in, how much sun it received, etc can all affect the quantity of the compound you're interested in within the plant. Standardized extracts can usually be found, and I would recommend these be used. Last time I was at SLC, we visited "this it the place" park- my favorite 'shop' there was the pharmacy- he made 'heart' pills using foxglove, so I got to see the whole process from mashing to pill rolling... pretty crazy since digitalis is one of those things where a little can cure, a little more can kill.

[annewandering]

I can get behind this to some degree, although the main problem with plants is the lack of standardization- the soil the plant grows in, how much sun it received, etc can all affect the quantity of the compound you're interested in within the plant. Standardized extracts can usually be found, and I would recommend these be used. Last time I was at SLC, we visited "this it the place" park- my favorite 'shop' there was the pharmacy- he made 'heart' pills using foxglove, so I got to see the whole process from mashing to pill rolling... pretty crazy since digitalis is one of those things where a little can cure, a little more can kill.

It makes sense to find the old recipes just in case kind of emergencies. If lack of meds is going to be fatal then dosages that arent completely accurate cant be any worse can they?

[marshac]

It makes sense to find the old recipes just in case kind of emergencies. If lack of meds is going to be fatal then dosages that arent completely accurate cant be any worse can they?

In terms of the end results- I can't argue with your logic

[WyomingEMT]

In the book (One second after) they tried to keep the insulin cold by putting the insulin in the water on the back side of the toliet which keep it colder. I think you can freeze baby formula and maybe other meds to extend there life.

[shine7]

When we started our food storage many years ago, we wondered, what about medicines? So, we started researching the use of herbs.......we tried several, they worked for us, and now that is most of what we use for our medicines. We have found herbs/herbal remedies for everything from bad breath to kidney function to heart help to natural antibiotics. Can't tell you in words how comforting to know that we are at peace with the herbal knowledge and experience plus success in using herbs that we've gained. We're thrilled with our decision to learn about herbs/herbal medicines.

Edited March 4, 2012 by shine7

[shdwlkr]

Shine7

My question is where do you get the herbs when all has failed and things are getting hard to just get by on a daily basis?

[NeuroTypical]

From your garden.

[shdwlkr]

that is a good answer but I live in the city in an apartment that is 20 stories high and the nearest ground is 20 miles away.

From your garden is good too if there hasn't been a nuclear event, a flood, hurricane, tornado, drought, you name the event.

Some of those of us here have no idea what the herbs look like growing in our garden because some previous owner had planted them.

I am hoping to move back into the country this year with the help of a dear friend and will be the caretaker of some property with freedom to make it my own place until I leave this life. We will be planting fruit trees, grapes, strawberries, etc and have a huge garden area, I would like to build a good sized herb garden also but will have to learn again what they look like in the garden.

Nature and man can ruin the best of plans and ideas so I again ask the question when there is no place to get your herbs and what you have stored is used up where do you get them?

[NeuroTypical]

Nature and man can ruin the best of plans and ideas so I again ask the question when there is no place to get your herbs and what you have stored is used up where do you get them?

Are you looking for something like a book on how to recognize and find wild herbs?

I've seen them around, but I've never read any.

[Dravin]

At some point situations can become dire enough that you keel over and die. That's life (or death I suppose).

[shdwlkr]

Loudmouth yea a good a really good book would be nice and since I am looking at starting over again with herbs and it has been decades would be nice to not make some of the mistakes this time around.

Dravin

why would think that at some point we are all going to die is not in the cards of your future? I am not talking about that just what if nature messes up your plans and you would like to obtain some more herbs where do you turn to find them. Sorry I like options the more the better.

[Dravin]

Dravin

why would think that at some point we are all going to die is not in the cards of your future?

This sentence is confusing. I think you may need to rewrite it before I can understand it.

I am not talking about that just what if nature messes up your plans and you would like to obtain some more herbs where do you turn to find them. Sorry I like options the more the better.

I was answering this question:

Nature and man can ruin the best of plans and ideas so I again ask the question when there is no place to get your herbs and what you have stored is used up where do you get them?

If there are no places to get your herbs (planter boxes, gardens, wild, trade, or storage) and you need them to survive, you die.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Dravin

[shdwlkr]

Dravin

First yes the sentence is messed up

It should read," why would you think that at some point in our journey in this life we are all not going to die it is not in the cards of any of our futures for it to be any other way." None are going to get out of this life without first dying and then being res erected at some point in the future.

Second I am thinking more if say you are in one area and there are herbs to be had in a distance area how without all the means we use today to move about would you get this accomplished? I am not thinking of a SHTF (Society Has Totally Failed ) scenario here more of a major natural disaster like we are seeing in the news with the current tornadoes and such. See here is how I see it unless there is a total SHTF event then there will be places that have things and places that need things and it is going to be very hard for the two of them to even know this bit of knowledge and how would you best accomplish this task? What I am getting at is think like it is around the 17-1800's as they had the same issues and accomplished them so how would you now a much smarter and intelligent person accomplish the same tasks?

Edited March 5, 2012 by shdwlkr

[Dravin]

It should read," why would you think that at some point in our journey in this life we are all not going to die it is not in the cards of any of our futures for it to be any other way."

Where did I say we are not all going to die?

What I am getting at is think like it is around the 17-1800's as they had the same issues and accomplished them so how would you now a much smarter and intelligent person accomplish the same tasks?

When it comes to medicine it's not always correct to assume they accomplished the task. If one needs a medicine that can be derived from a plant you have four issues:

1) Location - If you or someone else doesn't grow it you better hope it's native (it may not be). Good luck finding wild Ginger in Utah for instance.

2) Seasonal availability - Even if you do grow it, if your stores run out you may be in trouble because it's just not the proper time for harvesting. Cranberry juice can help with a UTI but if you run out and they aren't in season for another 3 months it doesn't help you that you grow a couple acres worth on your property.

3) Identification - If you have to find it in the wild. Books would probably be the best bet though I wouldn't discount the internet (to learn before all this happens).

4) Extraction - For some things a simple infusion (or even just juice in the case of UTI and cranberries) or relatively simple process may be able to extract or purify what you need. For others unless you are a chemist with the proper set-up the minute amounts found in a plant won't help you. And even with the proper set-up you may be in trouble, a lot of Pharma is synthesizing stuff because while it may be found in plant X it is in impractical amounts.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Dravin

[marshac]

a lot of Pharma is synthesizing stuff because while it may be found in plant X it is in impractical amounts.

Tamoxifen from the Pacific Yew tree is a good example of this.

While I support using herbs as a standby (or even frontline treatment for some things), nothing is going to replace the appropriate antibiotic when you have a serious infection. The same goes for insulin for a diabetic, or inhaled steroids for an asthmatic.

Look at the needs of your family, and plan accordingly- your doctor may be willing to assist you in this area if requested. Unless you have the requisite training/knowledge, stockpiling medicines that are relatively unknown to you is a bad idea- antibiotics are a favorite "prepper" item that people unfortunately view as being perfectly safe. Usually they are, but serious side effects or allergic reactions can happen.