Does disagreement have to be angry?


prisonchaplain
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I have this naive idea that if we are confident about what we believe, and have thought it through, then we can discuss it without getting angry. On the other hand, the less certain I am, and the more threatened I am by another's arguments, the angrier i will get.

Thoughts?

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I agree with you PC. Change is hard. Changing thoughts and beliefs is harder. When people perceive their beliefs are being threatened then the fight or flight response kicks in. I think that is where the anger comes from.

I know that I have become angry when I thought my beliefs were being challenged. Over the last several years I've worked to change that. Now when something comes up that seems contrary to my beliefs I try to remember to stop and think before automatically becoming angry.

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It's true PC. The less certain I am the more defensive I become. I think this is largely the result of an effort to work through new information and simultaneously form a coherent response. However, for me personally, I am more prone to anger when in the process of discussion someone insists they know what I believe better than I do. It illicits both fight and flight. I'm ticked off and then I leave when it becomes apparent the efforts at discussion are futile. Basically, its best if I stick to discussions solely based on mountain bike trails and favorite flavors of Vitamin Water Zero. Sorry, I'm not much help. :)

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I always tell my kids that the bosses who yell the loudest are the ones who know the least. But I'm not sure it's all a matter of insecurity. I think it's more a matter of the need to control. I know in my case, I've been described as one who doesn't suffer fools. I start to get ornery when a person presents an argument from a point of ignorance, or argues for arguments sake. I blame that on my lack of patience with people and my controlling side. As I've been letting go of thinking I can control anything (think serenity prayer), I've become a bit more patient and more able to let arguments drop. This is because I'm getting better at letting things go and knowing that I can't control what a persons thoughts and ideas are, only my own.

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I have this naive idea that if we are confident about what we believe, and have thought it through, then we can discuss it without getting angry. On the other hand, the less certain I am, and the more threatened I am by another's arguments, the angrier i will get.

Thoughts?

I think the online world is more complicated than that, but I wouldn't dispute this in some interactions at all. I'm certainly no expert but human psychology in cyberspace by the little I've heard/read is interesting. I did read a little about inhibition/disinhibition in terms of online interactions and I can understand that each person responds differently and may be based on a lot of factors which include the "person" and the circumstances of the discussion. No doubt the sense of anonymity, invisibility, asynchronous communication combined with cyberspace and personalities is mind boggleing (to me at least). But I have at least learned a bit more about myself here (my second and now only online community). Your OP has certainly added to my own self reflection and I hope it will become part of my asynchronous thought process. :rolleyes:

Edited by Magen_Avot
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I've never really had a problem with getting angry or feeling defensive when the topic is something I still know little about or am uncertain as to what I believe. That tends to be when I am the most open- I like to pull everything in, weigh all the thoughts, information, and opinions so that I can come to a better understanding of the topic and become more comfortable about what I personally believe.

I also haven't really felt that I struggle when it is a topic with which I am familiar and comfortable, since- as you said- I feel confident about what I believe. There's no reason for me to feel threatened, and I have absolutely no desire to be pushy- just to make sure others get a chance to hear my thoughts and opinions. I don't really struggle with the control slamjet described.

The few times I have found myself growing angry during a discussion have been when I feel like I'm talking to a "brick wall". When the other person engaged in discussion just keeps repeating and reiterating the same points over and over again without any sign that they've understood or even acknowledged any counter points or arguments. I start getting frustrated with their lack of flexibility, and if I'm not careful enough to step back and not let myself get too emotionally involved, I start getting angry. It doesn't really have anything to do with my confidence in my belief or any desire to have any kind of control over the situation- it's much more to do with an inability to communicate effectively due to a barrier that cannot be crossed.

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I have this naive idea that if we are confident about what we believe, and have thought it through, then we can discuss it without getting angry. On the other hand, the less certain I am, and the more threatened I am by another's arguments, the angrier i will get.

Thoughts?

I think the angry part comes out more when a person thinks the other party doesn't understand their view despite trying to explain it as best they can. That would be more of a frustration than it would anger, but it can come across as anger. So, it might be hard to separate frustration about communication from the tone given when a person is uncertain. I think this also depends on how prideful a person is because in that case a disagreement becomes a direct assault on the person instead of the idea.

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I think the online world is more complicated than that, but I wouldn't dispute this in some interactions at all.

You bring up a great point. Internet interactions are a whole different game, in my view. Quite often, game playing (role playing) is exactly what's going on. The introvert my play the troll, and those who are clumsy in verbal conversation, may be brilliant when presented a keyboard, and time to think through responses.

With the OP I had live conversation, face to face, in mind.

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You bring up a great point. Internet interactions are a whole different game, in my view. Quite often, game playing (role playing) is exactly what's going on. The introvert my play the troll, and those who are clumsy in verbal conversation, may be brilliant when presented a keyboard, and time to think through responses.

With the OP I had live conversation, face to face, in mind.

Oh! :roflmbo:

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I have this naive idea that if we are confident about what we believe, and have thought it through, then we can discuss it without getting angry. On the other hand, the less certain I am, and the more threatened I am by another's arguments, the angrier i will get.

Thoughts?

I am not sure if anger is always the correct word. I become upset and feel cheated when someone else demands to express my beliefs and views and insists on doing it incorrectly (ling about it).

For the most part I have had little problem with what others believe. I believe that I try very hard to understand other points of view - but I do not like or tolerate someone misrepresenting my view when I am very capable of expressing my own view.

I am also upset when someone distorts my point of view and expresses in a light or context that it was never meant for in a way that is harmful - I believe this to upset G-d as well and is the essence of the commandment to not bear false witness against our neighbor. I hold my right to freedom of speech as dear as my freedom of religion and I do become upset when someone knowingly violates my rights and shows glee in doing so.

Because of my very strong beliefs in the right of free speech and freedom of religion I try to remember others as well and I become upset when anyone tries to misrepresent any others beliefs. I do not believe an internet (or anywhere else) troll has the right to post inflammatory stuff and if they are not prevented in their remarks - I filter them and suggest all others do as well. Not as a instinct to flight but to deprive the insidious and demonic fire of fuel.

The Traveler

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  • 3 weeks later...

This is the fact it is always that when a person is confident on his point he can make people agree on it any how but when is not he gets frustrated and starts getting angry so that he can create pressure on the other person.

I agree with this except for what I bolded. I don't care so much about others agreeing with me as I do about them at least understanding my views/opinions. That is why it is the "brick walls" with which I get frustrated. I've had many conversations with people who completely disagree with me, and I don't have any problem with that. Several of them have been on this board and I consider those conversations, in particular, to be very memorable and enlightening because I've gained a better understanding of a different way to see things, as well as come o a better understanding of my own views- further rooting me in the greater strength of my personal opinions.

In this light, I think I actually prefer conversations with people with whom I disagree- so long as that person is open, enlightening, informative, and understanding.

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What really got my blood boiling was when I was in the Catholic Forum and all these ignorant Catholics bashed the LDS religion in the "Non Catholic" section (a section they created to discuss non-Catholic religions) spewing lies all over the place and so I went in and corrected the lies - doing what I always do, juxtapose Catholic with LDS to "bridge the gap" in the language of the intended audience (this time, Catholic), and they banned me for proselyting.

That got me angry. And I normally never get angry over religious differences.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have this naive idea that if we are confident about what we believe, and have thought it through, then we can discuss it without getting angry. On the other hand, the less certain I am, and the more threatened I am by another's arguments, the angrier i will get.

Thoughts?

Even if you don't feel confident about what you believe, why should we get angry? I think a person may choose to feel angry when someone becomes rude by attacking their persona (a common manipulation technique) or simply cannot accept the fact that someone thinks different (and they cannot let go). And at the end, still your choice how to react.

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My personality is such, that I rarely get angry. I may get my feelings hurt from time to time, but I very seldom get angry. My husband and I may have disagreements about different things, but we don't get angry about it. Now, my son and daughter-in-law, can't seem to have a disagreement without getting angry and upset about it. I haven't figured out why. Maybe they each feel they have to be "right", and get their own way. My son tells me that if he didn't insist on getting his way sometimes, he would never get what he "wants". And my daughter-in-law tells me, that she's usually "right". Ugh! I cringe inside whenever I'm visiting them, and the arguments start up.

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I've noticed that cable news stations have played on this to build ratings. The commentators either encourage anger at the other side, or anger at their bias. I miss the days when they pretended to be objective.

Religious conversations are even harder--nobody ever did pretend to be objective.

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I have this naive idea that if we are confident about what we believe, and have thought it through, then we can discuss it without getting angry. On the other hand, the less certain I am, and the more threatened I am by another's arguments, the angrier i will get.

Thoughts?

I think people get angry in discussions because someone hits on a topic or aspect of belief that makes them feel ashamed. Ashamed that maybe they don't know what they really believe, or how to defend their belief, or something along those lines.

Ashamed of their awareness of their vulnerability, in other words. It's easier to get angry with someone in a discussion than to be vulnerable to the other person and say, "Gee, I really don't know much about that [topic, doctrine, scripture, whatever]." Vulnerability would keep the discussion progressing, but we humans don't like vulnerability much.

:oneeye:

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I think people get angry in discussions because someone hits on a topic or aspect of belief that makes them feel ashamed. Ashamed that maybe they don't know what they really believe, or how to defend their belief, or something along those lines.

Ashamed of their awareness of their vulnerability, in other words. It's easier to get angry with someone in a discussion than to be vulnerable to the other person and say, "Gee, I really don't know much about that [topic, doctrine, scripture, whatever]." Vulnerability would keep the discussion progressing, but we humans don't like vulnerability much.

:oneeye:

What makes me angry is when someone pretends to give my point of view - or the point of view of others and not their own. I believe free speach only goes as far as our own opinion. When we pretend to give another point of view that is not ours - we give a false witness. We should let everyone speak freely to their own opinion but to pretend that we speak for others is a false witness - especially when others claim to be misrepresented.

It is contrary to the law of G-d to give a false witness but it is the very intent of Satan.

The Traveler

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