prisonchaplain Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 In an interfaith forum at a different site there is a lengthy, often volatile string going on about "Jesus Camp." It's a documentary about a fundamentalist Christian youth Bible camp. The documentary shows clips of Christian military folk on stage, urging the young people to "Be ready to battle--even to die, for Jesus' name." Hearing of this, I recalled some of the youth conventions I'd been to--ones where we were encouraged to be "sold out and radical." To "Give our all for God." To "lay our lives on the line." Such meetings are a longtime tradition in "revivalist Christianity." They tend to include an emotional decision time, where participants are called to come forward for salvation, for recommitment, for deliverance from addictions, etc. Quite often, there are fervent prayers, weeping, laughing--what psychologists would probably call "cathartic experiences." In the string, some non-Christians (and perhaps some Christians from more mainline, liturgical traditions) decried the camps as "brainwashing," of fermenting future Christian terrorists, and of generally approving "Dominion Theology" (the idea that Christians will eventually take over America and force both conversions and compliance with religious standards). My question: What are your general thoughts on emotion, 'revival' and passion as a part of your religious journey? Is it hype, or can these types of meetings and experiences truly be "life-changing," in a positive sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Umm..... that freaks me out....I thought the gospel was about life... not death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaFKon Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 My question: What are your general thoughts on emotion, 'revival' and passion as a part of your religious journey? Is it hype, or can these types of meetings and experiences truly be "life-changing," in a positive sense?My opinion?Mostly hype, but I assume they could be a positive "life-changing" experience...Josh B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 General Paton during WWII said that a good trooper is willing to live for his country and let the other die for theirs. I think it is more important to live by example for G-d than it is to die for principles one cannot live up to. I guess the real question is what does a youth think it means to Die for G-d or for the cause. What was the impression at the camp. Since I was not there I cannot speak to this. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 The bottom-line message I took from such camps and meetings is: Jesus' deserves 100%. Anything less is unacceptable. I'd much rather live 'richly' for Christ, even if poor by this world's standards, than vice versa. What shocks me is how badly the uninitiated are misinterpreting the messages. Again, this is simply revivalists Christianity--not some militia movement that's married to Jesus talk. Have none of you ever gone to youth camp??? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Ya....?? Like... camping with youth? lol. Ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I actually saw a piece about this on Scarborough Country on MSNBC last night, and honestly, it freaked me out. My opinion of it was that the children were being brainwashed - not only in a religious sense, but politically as well. The children were young, some like 5 or younger, and were crying and being taught about dying for what they believe, etc. That's too young, IMO. Five yr olds should be playing with toys and should not have to worry about death... there's plenty of time for that. I'm not saying they shouldn't be taught about God and Jesus, because I think they should, but they should be taught that He loves them, and other positive, simple things.Here is a video I found of it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1_9lR9EpM...related&search= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr T Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunny_surfer Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 sounds more like a cult to me...not a religion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryFields Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I didn't think that things like this happened in America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I didn't think that things like this happened in America. I studied it in anthro, and it happens more than you would think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 You are all really making me wonder. I haven't been able to see the film clip. Maybe this particular group is way out there? On the other hand, I have experienced "Bible camps"--mostly as a Jr/Sr High Schooler. Yes there was emotion, crying, etc. However, it was all very uplifting, and faith-promoting. Maybe I am brainwashed??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess3dward Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 I don't think you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faerie Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 What bothers me about that piece on MSNBC is the pastor's comment about kids being radical like the Muslims... That's all we need in this country is a bunch of kids who think being radical and killing yourself in the name of Christ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryFields Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 What bothers me about that piece on MSNBC is the pastor's comment about kids being radical like the Muslims...That's all we need in this country is a bunch of kids who think being radical and killing yourself in the name of Christ...I Shudder at the thought of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 What bothers me about that piece on MSNBC is the pastor's comment about kids being radical like the Muslims...That's all we need in this country is a bunch of kids who think being radical and killing yourself in the name of Christ...When I was a teenager we were supposed to be radical like the Communists. None of us dreamed of conquering Canada or Mexico, or of setting up re-education camps for the unenlightened. It just meant that if these communists (today Muslims) could be so dedicated as to do the horrific, self-sacrificing things they do, we should be AS DEDICATED to living holy, sharing our faith, etc.As a fundamentalist, I hate to say this, but I think many are interpreting this film, and revivalist rhetoric far too literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>What bothers me about that piece on MSNBC is the pastor's comment about kids being radical like the Muslims...That's all we need in this country is a bunch of kids who think being radical and killing yourself in the name of Christ...When I was a teenager we were supposed to be radical like the Communists. None of us dreamed of conquering Canada or Mexico, or of setting up re-education camps for the unenlightened. It just meant that if these communists (today Muslims) could be so dedicated as to do the horrific, self-sacrificing things they do, we should be AS DEDICATED to living holy, sharing our faith, etc.As a fundamentalist, I hate to say this, but I think many are interpreting this film, and revivalist rhetoric far too literally. Did you ever get a chance to see it, PC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryFields Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 When I was a teenager we were supposed to be radical like the Communists. None of us dreamed of conquering Canada or Mexico, or of setting up re-education camps for the unenlightened. It just meant that if these communists (today Muslims) could be so dedicated as to do the horrific, self-sacrificing things they do, we should be AS DEDICATED to living holy, sharing our faith, etc.As a fundamentalist, I hate to say this, but I think many are interpreting this film, and revivalist rhetoric far too literally. I have lived in parts of Utah most of my life except for a few years in California while going to school. I have always heard it said that I had lived a very sheltered life...maybe I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 <div class='quotemain'>When I was a teenager we were supposed to be radical like the Communists. None of us dreamed of conquering Canada or Mexico, or of setting up re-education camps for the unenlightened. It just meant that if these communists (today Muslims) could be so dedicated as to do the horrific, self-sacrificing things they do, we should be AS DEDICATED to living holy, sharing our faith, etc.As a fundamentalist, I hate to say this, but I think many are interpreting this film, and revivalist rhetoric far too literally. I have lived in parts of Utah most of my life except for a few years in California while going to school. I have always heard it said that I had lived a very sheltered life...maybe I have. Well, I've lived all my life in the Bible Belt South and thought I had seen it all, but this even surprises me! I don't think the problem lies with the interpretation of the film, but with the contents of the film. Quite frankly, it scares me. I fear this type of movement will spawn violence as a consequence of their 'warrior' attitudes... perhaps violence against abortion clinics, homosexuals, even liberals in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 You are all really making me wonder. I haven't been able to see the film clip. Maybe this particular group is way out there?I started another thread on this before I saw this one. Here are some clips and the film's site:http://www.jesuscampthemovie.comhttp://religion.netscape.com/story/2006/09...born-again-kidshttp://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2771951?ns=1P.S.: Thanks to Shan for letting me know I had started a duplicate thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryFields Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 I have always felt sorry for the children who are trained to go to war. Isn't there some important development that takes place during childhood that would be altered by becoming soldiers at this young age. It does seem like brainwashing. Maybe some, or most likely the majority, wouldn't choose to become soldiers as adults? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 The directors of "Jesus Camp," a buzz-generating documentary about evangelical Christian children training to be soldiers for God, proclaim no agenda other than to start a conversation about belief, politics and the culture wars. But the most prominent evangelical to appear in the film, the Rev. Ted Haggard of Colorado Springs, has disowned it on the eve of its limited release, saying the filmmakers cast their subjects in a sinister light and misrepresented evangelicalism.Their movie follows three Missouri kids who speak in tongues, pray for judges to outlaw abortion and lay hands on a cardboard cutout of President Bush. "Jesus Camp" shows children in camouflage and prayers about spiritual warfare, militarist imagery that Haggard said most Christian groups stopped using after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. "It does represent a small portion of the charismatic movement, but I think it demonizes it," said Haggard, a charismatic Christian who does not usually speak in tongues from the pulpit. "Secularists are hoping that evangelical Christians and radicalized Muslims are essentially the same, which is why they will love this film." http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_4340346 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiannan Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 Well, what passes for mainstream Christianity today would have been denounced at mainstream Secular Humanism by most Christian leaders a century ago if they could have seen the state of Christianity as it has devolved into today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted September 29, 2006 Report Share Posted September 29, 2006 When I was a teenager we were supposed to be radical like the Communists. None of us dreamed of conquering Canada or Mexico, or of setting up re-education camps for the unenlightened. It just meant that if these communists (today Muslims) could be so dedicated as to do the horrific, self-sacrificing things they do, we should be AS DEDICATED to living holy, sharing our faith, etc.Dedicated warriors... Yes, I agree with that idea, but I think there's a very big difference in the war we are waging and in how we are waging our war... the images I saw show they seem to be focusing too much on the "physical" side of things.And btw, here are some links to show what type of war we are fighting and the warriors we're trying to be, as we fight for God and try to win what is the good fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted September 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2006 I'll be frank--I have not seen the film (dialup at home, aggressive filters at work). However, it's easy for me to believe that film-makers who are unsympathetic to Christianity in general, and to conservative evangelicalism, in particular, could take some revivalist rhetoric and twist it to mean what it does not. Haggard is about as mainstream as you can get. Unless this camp is some fringe cult, my guess is that they are encouraging the kids to total dedication, and using the same "military" language Paul sometimes employed. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this is some wacked out religious militia sect. But, my default is to trust a fellow Christian church before I'd trust Hollywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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