Near Beer, does it technically pass WoW?


grauchy123
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I was having a conversation with a Mormon friend who drinks near beer. He says it qualifies as a Mild Drink of Barley. I looked up D&C 89:17 and it certainly looks like it could be read that way.

But near beer does contain alcohol typically around 0.5% or more. What say you, is that ok for a Mormon to do and still get a Temple Recommend?

Thanks.

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Under the original wording of the Word of Wisdom, mild drinks are suitable for consumption. Hard drinks were the ones to avoid. The difference being that mild drinks were fermented and hard drinks were distilled.

But the original wording of the Word of Wisdom isn't the issue here. What really is the issue is that subsequent president's of the Church applied further interpretation and instituted the commandment that the saints should abstain from alcohol.

Having said that, I'll just point out that vanilla extract contains alcohol. Hopefully that makes everything clear as mud.

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I say it's up to his Bishop. Keep in mind most people don't bat an eye at using extracts and a half teaspoon of 70% ABV extract (and I've seen higher than that) gives you about the same dose of alcohol as a 12 oz 0.5% ABV near beer.

The extracts are use to flavor solid foods- not a glass of beverage.

In my personal opinion, Near Beer is against the Word of Wisdom. As is night time cold medicines & cough medicine that contain alcohol, when the bottle is consumed in an hour or two and not over a three or four or longer day period.

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The extracts are use to flavor solid foods- not a glass of beverage.

And? The concern is it contains alcohol, no? Or is your position really that if we eat alcohol it's okay but if we drink it it's bad?

Also, extracts can be used to flavor beverages. It's not unknown in my family to put a shot of vanilla extract into OJ. I could see other drink related potential for ginger extract. If your thought is that solid foods are cooked (and thus bye-bye to at least some of the alcohol) things like whipped cream, yogurt, ganache, and frosting can all receive a shot of extract without being cooked.

Edited by Dravin
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I can't drink it because the smell triggers a rush and a need to go get the real thing. Besides, it may "technically" be ok with the WOW, but I equate it to saying "fetch" when one really means the substituted word. Its just flirting with a line that should be stayed away from, not an exercise in seeing how close one can get without crossing or being sucked over.

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Like all questions in the TR interview, if the person can honestly answer them correctly then they get the TR. In other words if the person believes near beer does not break the WOW then it doesn't for him/her.

I cook with wine occasionally and I use NyQuil when I get a cold -- yet I answer that I keep the WOW, do I? that's up to me and God to judge, not you. I would say intent is what counts; when I take NyQuil am I trying to get drunk? No I'm trying to get a good nights sleep.

Let's worry about our own sins and let others worry about theirs.

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It's questions like these that scream to me "Justification of sin" and how we as "saints' have a long way to go before becoming pure in action, thought and reason.

The 2,000 strippling warriors were so successful because they "Obeyed with EXACTNESS." They didn't focus on technicalities. Alcohol l is Alcohol. Beer is beer. Whether its lite, near or comes in a bottle or can.

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The way I look at vanilla is that we cook the alcohol out. (Well most of it.) So you add a teaspoon of vanilla to a batch of cookies. Say 6-7 cups of cookie dough. Most of the alcohol cooks out of that. The amount lest is barely traceable. But I am cheap and poor and use imitaion vanilla anyway.

For the near beer, we don't cook it out and the amount of alcohol in it is much higher than a teaspoon of vanilla in a batch of cookies that most of it has been cooked out. I don't see why there is even a comparison there.

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The way I look at vanilla is that we cook the alcohol out. (Well most of it.) So you add a teaspoon of vanilla to a batch of cookies. Say 6-7 cups of cookie dough. Most of the alcohol cooks out of that. The amount lest is barely traceable. But I am cheap and poor and use imitaion vanilla anyway.

For the near beer, we don't cook it out and the amount of alcohol in it is much higher than a teaspoon of vanilla in a batch of cookies that most of it has been cooked out. I don't see why there is even a comparison there.

Not everything that gets extracts added to it is cooked.

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It's questions like these that scream to me "Justification of sin" and how we as "saints' have a long way to go before becoming pure in action, thought and reason.

The 2,000 strippling warriors were so successful because they "Obeyed with EXACTNESS." They didn't focus on technicalities. Alcohol l is Alcohol. Beer is beer. Whether its lite, near or comes in a bottle or can.

As a side note, that word ("exactness") has been heavily on my mind lately in relation to my covenants. Thank you for bringing this part of the BoM up. I think we would do well to note how often we're told to not look beyond the mark, to obey the spirit of the law and not the letter (which to me means don't look for loopholes as much as the other way), and to obey with exactness.

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Not everything that gets extracts added to it is cooked.

I guess not all of it is cooked. I really only use it for cooking, so I didn't think about that. Also, I use the fake stuff so it's not an issue for me.

I guess I just hate the smell of alcohol so much, I couldn't imagin NOT cooking out real vanilla. :D

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I've seen one of those "lets prove it shows" and they showed that very little alcohol is cooked out.

I also sometimes wonder who is doing the justification, the one reasoning it's against the WoW or the one who doesn't believe it is.

My wife drinks a very occasional NB, I can't stand that smell, near or otherwise. She always comes across very exact in other things. But how exact should anything be lived? Not doing it oneself? Letting everyone know it's not for themself? Letting everyone know it's not for anyone? Stopping everyone one see's and telling them it's bad, harmful or otherwise against the wishes of God? Or worse.....? :jedi:

Exactness is exactly great for exactly whoever thinks they need to do that and where in their life they need to do that. It still boils down to "their" idea of what "exactness" is or should be. What I'm getting at is no matter what we do well, we humans do pretty poorly in something else. It is a measure for an individual and their relationship with God.

As an example: is paying 10% of every dime (including taxes or anything else), or is paying 90% the example of exactness? Just how far over the line should one have to go?

I've often hear that noone should be commanded in all things. I say, "so don't do the commanding then". but sometimes these things are enough to :combust:

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Also, extracts can be used to flavor beverages. It's not unknown in my family to put a shot of vanilla extract into OJ. I could see other drink related potential for ginger extract. If your thought is that solid foods are cooked (and thus bye-bye to at least some of the alcohol) things like whipped cream, yogurt, ganache, and frosting can all receive a shot of extract without being cooked.

Are you actually saying that you put a shot (7/8 to 1 ounce) of vanilla extract into your glass or two quart pitcher of OJ? Or when mixing up frosting? Then you use no other liquid when you make frosting? Just the vanilla extract?

There is a big difference between flavored extracts and alcohol. Ganache uses rum. Rum is anywhere from 35 %-75.5% = 70 proof to 151 proof. Beer is 2-12%=4-24 proof. Near beer is .05-1.5 = 1-3 proof.

Cooking doesn't dissipate all of the alcohol. Nor does flaming it, as in Cherries Jubilee.

If one thinks that it is okay to drink near beer- 0.5%(1 Proof) at a party, and then consumes 6 or 12 cans- you are then imbibing in alcohol consumption.

Flavored extracts are not consumed by the ounce or bottle as beer, liqueurs, brandies, hard liquor is. Flavored extracts that do contain ethenol alcohol are used by the teaspoon full and in some cases by the tablespoon and are added to a product that is then divided into smaller servings.

And? The concern is it contains alcohol, no? Or is your position really that if we eat alcohol it's okay but if we drink it it's bad?

No, I am saying that drinking near beer is the same as drinking a can of Bud or Olympia. Just because the alcohol amount is reduced, doesn't mean it is not an alcoholic beverage.

Flavored extracts that contain alcohol are not beverages. If someone is drinking them as if they were, then they have more money then they know what do to with and could be closet alcoholics to boot. The same as if they were drinking mouthwash or otc liquid nite time medicines.

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Are you actually saying that you put a shot (7/8 to 1 ounce) of vanilla extract into your glass or two quart pitcher of OJ?

We may have ended up with a couple tablespoons in a half gallon pitcher of OJ, but I was using shot more colloquially. So that'd be the alcohol equivalent of, assuming the max of two tablespoons, a half dozen near beers. 1 tablespoon is probably more common, so that'd be the equivalent of 3 near beers.

Then you use no other liquid when you make frosting?

Why on earth is that relevant? If I put a tablespoon (or some other measure) of extract in my frosting the alcohol doesn't magically dissipate because I use some cream too.

Flavored extracts are not consumed by the ounce or bottle as beer, liqueurs, brandies, hard liquor is. Flavored extracts that do contain ethenol alcohol are used by the teaspoon full and in some cases by the tablespoon and are added to a product that is then divided into smaller servings.

A half teaspoon (70%) has the same amount of alcohol as a near beer(0.5%). You don't have to consume it by the ounce to get an equivalent amount of alcohol.

If one thinks that it is okay to drink near beer- 0.5%(1 Proof) at a party, and then consumes 6 or 12 cans- you are then imbibing in alcohol consumption.

If you use extracts with alcohol you are engaging in alcohol consumption. And one doesn't have to consume 6 or 12 cans to be consuming alcohol, one can is consuming alcohol (heck, one sip is).

here is a big difference between flavored extracts and alcohol. Ganache uses rum. Rum is anywhere from 35 %-75.5% = 70 proof to 151 proof. Beer is 2-12%=4-24 proof. Near beer is .05-1.5 = 1-3 proof.

I've seen extracts up to 85%+ ABV, that's 170 proof. I'm unsure what your point is here.

Flavored extracts that contain alcohol are not beverages.

And yet the alcohol they contain doesn't magically disappear because it's not a beverage. If you use any alcoholic extract you are consuming alcohol, and even if we let ourselves pretend it all cooks out, extracts are used for non-cooked applications.

Edited by Dravin
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This is exactly why I left the church the first time, because of all the nit-pickin' about trivial matters such as this. I recall a discussion in my house with missionaries and some elders about whether or not members should use mouthwash that contains alcohol. My feeling is just go ahead and do it. Even if you wish to drink an ocassional cup of coffee (darn right I do) or ocassional beer (not for me), go ahead and do it. When it is time for your bishop to interview you for temple recommendation, you will know whether you obey the words of wisdom. My home teacher confided in me that his cousins (LDS) get drunk on a regular basis, even to the point in which they are rolling around on the floor (like idiots, I can imagine), but they sober up and stop drinking when the time approaches for their TR interview so they can honestly (in their minds) say they obey the WoW. Hey, to each their own. If Heavenly Father has a problem with it, he'll deal with you. Quite frankly, these others are just humans telling you what their opinions and interpretations are.

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I agree that a long drawn out discussion over the merit of pure vanilla and mouthwash is pretty much pointless because that would fall under the category of personal feelings on the matter. But the General Authorities are pretty explicit on coffee and alcoholic drinks. It's been my experience that there is a point where rebelliousness kicks in and certain things are personally permitted and espoused because one does not like to be dictated to, or has a sense of "be your own person." Seems to be the 2 Nephi 28:7-9 syndrome. Kind of flies in the face of the Gospel.

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The only people I know of that get drunk on extracts are alcoholics and they drink the bottle not the tsp. If you drink extracts for the alcohol you are breaking the word of wisdom. Debating extracts just sounds stupid. I am pretty stringent on my word of wisdom opinions but sheesh.

As I recall the word of wisdom was ever made at all was because the wives of some of the leaders of the church were getting upset at the disgusting habits of drinking and smoking. I dont know that anyone can say that flavoring cakes is a disgusting habit. It certainly isnt going to affect your health in any way. The cake might but not the flavoring. Sheer logic is going to tell you that extracts have nothing to do with the Word of wisdom.

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If you drink extracts for the alcohol you are breaking the word of wisdom.

Then does it stand to reason if you don't drink the near beer for the alcohol you're fine? Personally I don't think extract are violating the Word of Wisdom. I'm just pointing out that we consume alcohol all the time and most of us don't bat an eye at it.

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Then does it stand to reason if you don't drink the near beer for the alcohol you're fine? Personally I don't think extract are violating the Word of Wisdom. I'm just pointing out that we consume alcohol all the time and most of us don't bat an eye at it.

Why do people drink near beer? So if they drink a 8oz glass of extract they are drinking it for the flavor? Frankly I doubt it. I am not sure how any one can even choke it down but then again I dont know how people choke beer down. The stench is so bad.

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