No fun?

[cwald]

Since it looks like this thread turned into a WoW thread, I will say that when I was a faithful member, I missed out on a lot of fun with friends and coworkers. Now that I am not "traditional" or "orthodox," my social life and the amount of "fun" I have is a lot more.

I know that some folks say mormons have a lot of fun without beer or coffee or whatever. Sure, I believe it. Especially if they have never indulged in those pleasures of life - they for the most part don't know what they are missing. I'm not criticizing either - just making an observation.

However, in my experience, I didn't have a lot of fun. I was quite miserable to be honest, and lonely. I'm much more at peace now.

[clevermoniker]

Since it looks like this thread turned into a WoW thread, I will say that when I was a faithful member, I missed out on a lot of fun with friends and coworkers. Now that I am not "traditional" or "orthodox," my social life and the amount of "fun" I have is a lot more.

I know that some folks say mormons have a lot of fun without beer or coffee or whatever. Sure, I believe it. Especially if they have never indulged in those pleasures of life - they for the most part don't know what they are missing. I'm not criticizing either - just making an observation.

However, in my experience, I didn't have a lot of fun. I was quite miserable to be honest, and lonely. I'm much more at peace now.

I agree with you. I've always thought it kind of naive when members have tried to claim that they're not missing out on any of the fun to be had out there. Sinning IS fun, that's kind of the point. Otherwise it wouldn't be so tempting. We are put on this earth to learn to overcome this, to say no to things that are fun when they are wrong.

For me, I see it as a sacrifice now for a greater reward in the future. But make no mistake, it is definitely a sacrifice.

[Madriglace]

Yep fun .... drinking stuff that smells like paint thinner, smoking something that smells like a burning garbage can and oh yeah coffee now that's just plain nasty! I really can't see these as "pleasures" in life.

Fun at church ... our Bishopric doing Popcorn Popping on the Apricot Tree in full Blues Brothers mode .... they had everyone rolling in the isles.

It's all how you look at it ... if I need a crutch to have fun I choose something that isn't going to kill me.

[cwald]

Sinning IS fun, that's kind of the point. ...

Hmmm? Not really. You obviously missed my point. Who says that tea and coffee and beer are "sins?" The Mormons? Why would you think drinking tea is a "sin?"

Perhaps the WoW is just a commandment of obedience, to determine loyalty to the church, and has nothing at all to do with "sin" at all?

I don't think God cares about such trivial things.

Edited February 28, 2012 by cwald

[cwald]

Yep fun .... drinking stuff that smells like paint thinner, smoking something that smells like a burning garbage can and oh yeah coffee now that's just plain nasty! I really can't see these as "pleasures" in life.

Fun at church ... our Bishopric doing Popcorn Popping on the Apricot Tree in full Blues Brothers mode .... they had everyone rolling in the isles.

It's all how you look at it ... if I need a crutch to have fun I choose something that isn't going to kill me.

How about going to the Chinese Gardens in Portland with your wife and kids and drinking pot of tea at the tea house during a rain storm? Now that was fun.

[cwald]

Yep fun .... drinking stuff that smells like paint thinner, ... and oh yeah coffee now that's just plain nasty! I really can't see these as "pleasures" in life. ...

You obviously don't understand or have much of a knowledge or experience with the art of beer or coffee.

That is fine. Mormons should not. But I hope you will at least acknowledge that most of the population on this planet disagree with your description. Coffee, tea and beer really is an art and science. There is big difference between the different beer types and coffee types. Most mormons think of beer and coffee as Budweiser and Folgers. Yeah, that's stuff is pretty bad. But there is a whole lot more to it than that.

I have to be honest, when LDS members say stuff like this, most of the world just shake their heads and sigh about the blatant ignorance displayed on the subject.

Edited February 28, 2012 by cwald

[Leah]

How about going to the Chinese Gardens in Portland with your wife and kids and drinking pot of tea at the tea house during a rain storm? Now that was fun.

Are you saying that without that pot of tea, the day would not have held any 'fun'? That the gardens, your family, the rain-storm...all of that would not have been 'fun' without the tea?

I cannot think of one single way in which giving up coffee, tea, or alchohol when I joined the church has prevented me from having fun. It's not the tea or the coffee or the booze that makes something 'fun' or not. It's your attitude.

And if one cannot have fun without those substances...well...gosh...maybe there is some wisdom in the Word of Wisdom in cautioning against addictive substances.

[cwald]

Are you saying that without that pot of tea, the day would not have held any 'fun'? That the gardens, your family, the rain-storm...all of that would not have been 'fun' without the tea?...

Nope, only that the experience of trying different teas in an authentic tea house added to the experience and enjoyment of the day. I think a big part of the experience would have been missing had we not done so.

[Maureen]

I agree with cwald. Anything can be deemed as “bad” or “sinful” if you see it that way personally. Take dancing, Mormons love to dance, Evangelicals might view the activity as “sinful”. When I was a kid, my Pentecostal friend was not allowed to go to movies in the theatre, even animation. Her family and church deemed movies as “sinful”. I do not like Brussel sprouts, they are “bad” in my books; but brussel sprouts are actually good for you. Just because a person has made an item or activity as something to be avoided, doesn’t necessarily make it “bad” or “sinful” in and of itself.

M.

[Just_A_Guy]

Hmmm? Not really. You obviously missed my point. Who says that tea and coffee and beer are "sins?" The Mormons? Why would you think drinking tea is a "sin?"

Perhaps the WoW is just a commandment of obedience, to determine loyalty to the church, and has nothing at all to do with "sin" at all?

I don't think God cares about such trivial things.

I agree with you in that I see obedience to the WoW as more of a token of our Church covenants than as a prohibition against sinful behavior per se.

I do not think it follows, though, that God is unconcerned with such things. If we take the temple liturgy at face value, then God cares very much about our loyalty to the Church as an institution.

And for the scoffers: I'll acknowledge the sophisticated nuances of coffee and brewing, when you acknowledge the consummate artistry and sheer aesthetic genius in a savory cupful of green Jell-O.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

. . . not to mention the carefully-balanced amalgamation of potatoes, cheese, and corn flakes that is Funeral Potatoes. A ward Christmas dinner just wouldn't be as much fun without them.

[cwald]

I agree with you in that I see obedience to the WoW as more of a token of our Church covenants than as a prohibition against sinful behavior per se.

I do not think it follows, though, that God is unconcerned with such things. If we take the temple liturgy at face value, then God cares very much about our loyalty to the Church as an institution.

And for the scoffers: I'll acknowledge the sophisticated nuances of coffee and brewing, when you acknowledge the consummate artistry and sheer aesthetic genius in a savory cupful of green Jell-O.

You have my acknowledgment. :)

[cwald]

. . . not to mention the carefully-balanced amalgamation of potatoes, cheese, and corn flakes that is Funeral Potatoes. A ward Christmas dinner just wouldn't be as much fun without them.

As do you. I sometimes go to church - just for the potlucks and the potatoes. Good stuff. It's the only time I get to eat them.

[Madriglace]

How about going to the Chinese Gardens in Portland with your wife and kids and drinking pot of tea at the tea house during a rain storm? Now that was fun.

Been there done that ... without the tea ... still had blast and then did a sprint down to Saturday Market! I love the art and science of all the booths with cool stuff to buy! Even in the rain it's fun. Gotta have an elephant ear though.

[Just_A_Guy]

You have my acknowledgment. :)

And you, sir, have mine in return.

(At least, from what I've smelled of the stuff . . .)

[Leah]

Nope, only that the experience of trying different teas in an authentic tea house added to the experience and enjoyment of the day. I think a big part of the experience would have been missing had we not done so.

If someone is convinced that not including tea or coffee or alcohol in an experience is going to somehow lessen the experience, then chances are pretty good that is exactly the experience they will have.

It sounds as if you don't want to entertain the idea - or even believe others - that life doesn't have to lose an ounce of 'fun' simply because one gives up these substances. It's all in the attitude. If you have convinced yourself that you can't have fun without them, you won't.

If you want to discared WoW in favor of 'fun', that's certainly your choice. But it's never been an either/or situation. But I don't think the point of WoW had anything to do with 'fun'.

[Maureen]

If someone is convinced that not including tea or coffee or alcohol in an experience is going to somehow lessen the experience, then chances are pretty good that is exactly the experience they will have.

It sounds as if you don't want to entertain the idea - or even believe others - that life doesn't have to lose an ounce of 'fun' simply because one gives up these substances. It's all in the attitude. If you have convinced yourself that you can't have fun without them, you won't.

If you want to discared WoW in favor of 'fun', that's certainly your choice. But it's never been an either/or situation. But I don't think the point of WoW had anything to do with 'fun'.

It's all subjective. If you've convinced yourself that taboos exist for some spiritual purpose then that's what you take away from it. It doesn't necessarily mean it's true for everyone. People can experience spiritual insights too even without the need to follow prohibitive rules.

M.

[cwald]

It's all subjective. If you've convinced yourself that taboos exist for some spiritual purpose then that's what you take away from it. It doesn't necessarily mean it's true for everyone. People can experience spiritual insights too even without the need to follow prohibitive rules.

M.

Yes. I agree. Sure, I suppose I could go to the Chinese Gardens and the tea house, AND NOT try a bunch of different teas. But why would I? It's not a sin to me.

I didn't bring up the WoW subject in this thread - that is where it evolved before I posted.

My main pointas related to this thread about "fun" was having to spend time, sometimes 3 to 6 hours at church on Sunday, rather than spending time with my wife and kids hiking and playing ball.

To me, that would be fun. Much more fun than spending my entire Sunday in meetings.

[Leah]

It's all subjective. If you've convinced yourself that taboos exist for some spiritual purpose then that's what you take away from it. It doesn't necessarily mean it's true for everyone. People can experience spiritual insights too even without the need to follow prohibitive rules.

M.

You totally missed the point.

[LDSJewess]

It's all subjective. If you've convinced yourself that taboos exist for some spiritual purpose then that's what you take away from it. It doesn't necessarily mean it's true for everyone. People can experience spiritual insights too even without the need to follow prohibitive rules.

M.

Maureen,

I think you are missing the point of LDS doctrine if you think that the LDS chuirch teached "prohibition."

Quite the opposite. The thing that sets the LDS church apart from many other Christian doctrines is the concept of "free agency." Thus this may very well make the LDs church pro choice (not in the political term), but in teaching members that we indeed have free agency to choose or not to choose and with our choices come personal responsibility.

I do not for a moment think that the things listed in the Words of Wisdom are "taboos" rather just what they are called words of WISDOM.

I was not born in the church and converted in middle age. So yes I have been exposed to and tried tea, coffee and alcohol. None of which I find tasty and do not personally care for the after effects of feeling a sense of acid stomach, jitters, headache or a feeling of dulled senses.

To me the most fun things are feeling radiantly healthy, clear headed, unconjested, freedom from sickness and a sense of calm. These blessings or effects of abstinence from unhealthy things are purely physical and have little bearing on how "spiritual" I feel.

In addition (although not in the words of wisdom) I follow many other dietary laws in scriptures. I do not eat pork or unclean meats, and I eat meat VERY sparingly more as an occasional garnish than an entre. White breads, sugar and junk food are off my list. Although they are not listed in the Words Of Wisdom, it does not take a rocket scientist to see what is healthy and what is not.

Being sick, dull headed, over weight with bellies that exceed the circumference of hips (in a non pregnant state for men and women), sleep disorders, frequent allergies, disgestive issues etc etc etc: are not fun nor are cancer, heart disease, diabetes, arthritis etc:

To discover the fullness of joy which IS FUN, one must follow good health habits. The Word Of Wisdom and other areas of the Holy Scriptures are wise guidelines for us so that while we have free agency we can use our freedom of chice to make wise choices and be happy.

If you are one of the millions of people on this planet that is over weight, spends a lot of time in a doctors office, gets sick often, frequently tired etc: you may want to change your idea of fun and rather than think of wise guidence as prohibition, simply words to live by to be happy and healthy and enjoy life.

Ok I know I am rambling now, but two more thinks:

So often have I heard people have to take a Monday morning off or come to work feeling trashed because they "party-ed" the night before. Some brag about being drunk and say what a great time they had but they were so numb they can't remember much??? So what part was fun?

Secondly to the poster who said it is hard if your friends are not LDS. Not sure I understand this one unless you are a kid in middle school sucjected to peer pressure.

In my own social life I would say maybe 25 to 30 percent of those I socialize with regularly are also members of my church. The remainders are from other clubs and rganizations we belong to, boat club, golf club, the Masons and Shriners (and their ladies counterparts), and my group cluise associates. The majority of my non LDS friends indeed drink alcohol, coffee and smoke. We go to frequent fundraiser dinner dances where the smokers take their break outdoors, those that drink do so. I prefer fresh water with lemon. But we are all socializing, enjoying great food, entertainment and dancing. My husband and I are usually the last to leave when the band stops playing because we tend to have more energy to keep dancing and socializing while the ones that are mellowed from drinking are ready to leave early. And the next morning while they are dealing with their morning after headaches, we are off to go fishing, a great walk in the park, and outing on the beach, or 18 holes of golf.

Not sure about the 6 hours in church. 3 hours is the typical Sunday. But again a lot of that can be fun because we enjoy the talks, the lessons, the interaction and meeting up with our friends.

Bottom line is I suppose there are some that are conditioned to believe what fun is. Each to their own. It all comes down to that personal choce called free agency. :)

[beefche]

It's all subjective. If you've convinced yourself that taboos exist for some spiritual purpose then that's what you take away from it. It doesn't necessarily mean it's true for everyone. People can experience spiritual insights too even without the need to follow prohibitive rules.

M.

Couldn't the same be said about any of God's commands? Let's take the law of chastity. I would think most Christians agree that the Bible is clear that fornication (sex between 2 people who are not married) is a sin. It's prohibitive, taboo, or whatever term one wishes to apply. Yet, many people engage in premarital sex and claim benefits, spiritual highs, or other good things from practicing such. If one doesn't trust God when He says "don't do it" then we can find good and spiritual aspects of engaging in premarital sex.