Job 1:6 - Satan came also


Spartan117
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I was reading Job the other day and this particular verse caught my attention.

Job 1:6 reads ..

6 ¶Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

There is a footnote with a reference to the JST, verse 6 in the JST reads ..

6 Now there was a day when the children of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

-- The only difference is "sons" in the KJV is changed to "children" in the JST.

So reading verse 6 literally, Satan came before the Lord and talked with Him about Job. Their conversation about Job goes until verse 12, where it reads ...

Job 1:12

12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

Reading verse 12 literally, Satan was in the presence of God for their conversation. This raises several questions for me that I'd like to pose for discussion here ...

D&C 76:25–27: an angel of God who was .. in the presence of God, who rebelled .. and was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son.

-- So Satan was able to just invite himself back into the presence of the Lord for a chat?

Job 1:6: .. the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord

-- What is the nature of this event? Where was it held? When was it held?

Thoughts?

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I'm not sure what the answer to this question is, but I found something interesting: the word "Satan" in Hebrew can also refer more generally to an adversary, or a tempter. What my guess is that one of God talked to one of Satan's tempters, and presence here might not refer to actually being in front of each other. But that's just my guess at it.

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Can Satan be in the presence of God? | Ask Gramps

first, remember that Job is a drama. That means that Satan standing in the presence of God may only be introduced as a figure to move the story along – to show that the Lord, in completing Job’s perfection had to provide him with opposition.

Second, consider that Satan is acting in a very specific role of accuser. Paul counsels us against rebuking an Elder (1 Tim 5:1) and we see that even when Satan is rebuked directly, that task is left exclusively to the Lord by invoking the phrase “the Lord rebuke thee” (Zech 3:1-2, Jude 1:9). We see this play out in modern scripture, with Satan in the presence of the Lord accusing those he just tempted.

Joseph Smith similarly taught:

If you do not accuse each other, God will not accuse you. If you have no accuser you will enter heaven…. If you will not accuse me, I will not accuse you. If you will throw a cloak of charity over my sins, I will over yours—for charity covereth a multitude of sins.

History of the Church, 4:445.

Satan may fulfil this role of accuser literally, in person, or it may be that this is a position filled by unforgiving mortals assuming a devilish nature.

The third thing to consider is that everyone must give an accounting of their own stewardship. Job opens with Satan giving an accounting of his wandering in the earth tempting man. When you give an accounting of your life, there will be witnesses there to testify to what you were taught and what you knew. Undoubtedly, Satan will also give an accounting of the tempations he sowed in your life.

Ever since he was cast out of Heaven the only time we find Satan in the presence of God is when he is summoned to give an accounting, and when he stands as Accuser.

I think it's likely that this earthly council was patterned after the heavenly one, where God's covenent people met to give an accounting of the stewardships they'd been given. Satan was also called to givce an accounting, which he did. New assignments were then handed out.

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It does't refer to the "devil." During the time the Book of Job was written, the was no such creature as the devil as we think about today.

The character in Job was ha-satan, an archetypal character in ancient literature that acted on behalf of the king... In this case God; someone who hung out in bathrooms and alleys and saw what people sails about the king behind hid back.

In real life God does't conspire with the devil to murder people on a bet.

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It does't refer to the "devil."

The end of verse 6 says "and bSatan came also among them." The footnote for 6b refers you to "TG Devil."

During the time the Book of Job was written, the was no such creature as the devil as we think about today.

I don't follow you :confused: So when was the Book of Job written? And when has satan been anything different than what he became after being cast down to the earth?

Guide to the Scriptures - Lucifer: After his fall he became Satan and the devil, D&C 76:25–29

The character in Job was ha-satan, an archetypal character in ancient literature that acted on behalf of the king... In this case God; someone who hung out in bathrooms and alleys and saw what people sails about the king behind hid back.

Job 1 and 2, the verses that tell the story of satan conversing with God about Job both have footnotes where 'satan' is referenced to "TG Devil." Adversary; Destroyer; Evil; Hell; Lucifer; Satan; These are not words attributed to those who act on behalf of God.

In real life God does't conspire with the devil to murder people on a bet.

Where does that happen? Verse 12 says: "And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy bpower; The footnote 12b refers you to "TG Probation." So God permits satan to tempt Job and take away his possesions.

The last half of the verse "only upon himself put not forth thine hand." is God's explicit condition that Job was not to be killed. In Job 2 God gives satan permission to afflict Job physically, but He again gives the explicit condition in verse 6: "but save his life."

Edited by Spartan117
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It does't refer to the "devil." During the time the Book of Job was written, the was no such creature as the devil as we think about today.

The character in Job was ha-satan, an archetypal character in ancient literature that acted on behalf of the king... In this case God; someone who hung out in bathrooms and alleys and saw what people sails about the king behind hid back.

In real life God does't conspire with the devil to murder people on a bet.

The character was Satan or Lucifer. The same individual that tested Moses in Moses chapter 1, and Joseph Smith prior to the first vision.

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I was reading Job the other day and this particular verse caught my attention.

...

-- What is the nature of this event? Where was it held? When was it held?

Thoughts?

It is my understanding that when Adam fell that all men were cast out (excommunicated) from the society of Heaven over which the Father is G-d and king. This also means that the Father was no longer the sovereign king and G-d of man. Jesus - the servant vassal (the Son) became the sovereign king and G-d of all that have fallen from the society of heaven and is the mediator with the Father. All this is in accordance with the understanding that the society of heaven is the society and law of kingdoms.

Thus Job is accurate in depicting Satan being able to come before G-d (Jesus Christ - the G-d of the Old and New Testament) as he governs the affairs of men where Satan made an appeal to the sovereign Suzarain that oversees and governs the fallen.

I believe this is an important notion that is taught by G-d anciently as well as in our restored generation.

The Traveler

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Moses 5:4 And Adam and Eve, his wife, called upon the name of the Lord, and they heard the voice of the Lord from the way toward the Garden of Eden, speaking unto them, and they saw him not; for they were shut out from his presence.

On January 21, 1836, the Prophet Joseph Smith saw a vision in the Kirtland Temple. He said of this experience: “I saw the Twelve Apostles of the Lamb, who are now upon the earth, who hold the keys of this last ministry, in foreign lands, standing together in a circle, much fatigued, with their clothes tattered and feet swollen, with their eyes cast downward, and Jesus standing in their midst, and they did not behold Him. The Savior looked upon them and wept” ( History of the Church, 2:381)

Though Adam and Eve did not behold the Lord, for they were shut out from his presence, they never the less were able to hear him when he spoke to them.

Though the Apostles had Jesus standing in their midst, they did not behold him.

Thus though Satan has been cast out of the presence of the Lord, it is still possible for the Lord to speak to him should he choose to do so.

Thus even though the Lord may choose speak with him, it does not require that he show himself to Satan.

I present myself to the Lord all the time. I do it when I pray and I do it when I go to the temple. Perhaps it was the same then as well. Perhaps the children of God were presenting themselves before the Lord at his temple to offer sacrifices.

In reading that verse, in light of what I understand from other scriptures, I can't conclude that Satan beheld the Lord.

I hope this helps =)

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The end of verse 6 says "and bSatan came also among them." The footnote for 6b refers you to "TG Devil."

I don't follow you :confused: So when was the Book of Job written? And when has satan been anything different than what he became after being cast down to the earth?

Guide to the Scriptures - Lucifer: After his fall he became Satan and the devil, D&C 76:25–29

Job 1 and 2, the verses that tell the story of satan conversing with God about Job both have footnotes where 'satan' is referenced to "TG Devil." Adversary; Destroyer; Evil; Hell; Lucifer; Satan; These are not words attributed to those who act on behalf of God.

The topical guide?

How bout you reseach the role of the advesary in the Divine Coucil in ancient literature and then let's talk.

Where does that happen? Verse 12 says: "And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy bpower; The footnote 12b refers you to "TG Probation." So God permits satan to tempt Job and take away his possesions.

The last half of the verse "only upon himself put not forth thine hand." is God's explicit condition that Job was not to be killed. In Job 2 God gives satan permission to afflict Job physically, but He again gives the explicit condition in verse 6: "but save his life."

It happens in the Book of Job 1: 15, 17, 18 and the wager was that Job wouldn't turn his back on God because of it.

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Why wouldn't Satan be able to enter God's presence and converse with him?

We know from scripture that Satan was exiled from heaven. From my earlier post on this thread - I submitted that the misunderstanding is because the G-d spoken of in Job was Jesus Christ and not the Father. From Luke chapter 4 we know that Satan has no difficulty at all in coming before Jesus and making proposals. Satan was removed for the presents of the Father and therefore suffers spiritual death - but he can be in the presents of Jesus until he is cast into outer darkness.

The Traveler

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Guest LysergicAsian
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In order to distract people who may be too troublesome from discussions of questions of the political we are now putting forward what we allege to be new questions of the political, namely, questions of industry. In this sphere let them discuss themselves silly! The masses are agreed to remain inactive, to take a rest from what they suppose to be political (which we trained them to in order to use them as a means of combating the GOY governments) only on condition of being found new employments, in which we are prescribing them something that looks like the same political object. In order that the masses themselves may not guess what they are about WE FURTHER DISTRACT THEM WITH AMUSEMENTS, GAMES, PASTIMES, PASSIONS, PEOPLE'S PALACES .... SOON WE SHALL BEGIN THROUGH THE PRESS TO PROPOSE COMPETITIONS IN ART, IN SPORT IN ALL KINDS: these interests will finally distract their minds from questions in which we should find ourselves compelled to oppose them. Growing more and more unaccustomed to reflect and form any opinions of their own, people will begin to talk in the same tone as we because we alone shall be offering them new directions for thought ... of course through such persons as will not be suspected of solidarity with us.

http://illuminati.me.pn/zion.html
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